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I always hear this, "drive with esp or traction control on or sport max".
Man if you can't handle your car with esp off!! Buy a car you can handle till your skill increases. And this is exactly why...
Not pumping my tires, but every single time I get in the car I turn esp off completely and turn it to M mode, even if I'm driving 5 ft, it's just a habit now. I can't stand ESP cutting power when I'm trying to take off or merge, I find it down right dangerous.
Having said that, if you can't handle your car maybe you need some practice. Ppl rely on these driver aids, when turned off its like they don't even know how to drive and this happens.
If you feel you need ESP to drive around the city safely, Man U are in the wrong car. Especially a c63 because it is wayyyyymore tail happy then any bmw. There is a reason it was called an axe murder with headlights.
The best thing I ever did was buy some crappy all season tires and head out to the local drift practice. For $30 you get all night blasting around the course, spinning out, drifting, donuts, you name it. All in a safe environment. You will learn more about your car in one evening than years of street driving.
'11 C63 P31, '06 Infiniti G35 Sedan (sold), '03 Nissan 350Z (R.I.P.), '15 Toyota Hylander
At the 0:06 mark you can clearly see that this idiot isn't counter-steering at all, and he got what he deserved for being unable to deal with a simple oversteer situation.
Nevermind that he was hooning at a C&C, which doubles the need for him to get his comeuppance for this stupid stunt.
Someone please educate a novice. What exactly happened in that M4 video? How does a vehicle going in a straight line get so off track? And how should the driver have reacted to the situation?
Excuse#14 There was a puppy, did you not see it, ran out in front of my car
Excuse #15 The race track has no straight, only left hand turns.
Excuse #16 I am a professional circle track racer, just going to the store across the street, Red neck style
Excuse #17 My girlfriend just armour all-ed my tires
Someone please educate a novice. What exactly happened in that M4 video? How does a vehicle going in a straight line get so off track? And how should the driver have reacted to the situation?
He got on the throttle hard with TC off. The rear stepped out and there was no steering correction to account for the slip angle.
Years of car control training and no reactions on this one ...
Originally Posted by DVC
Is that exhaust note for real, or did they over dub that farting noise?
SO real that lawn mower sound!!
Originally Posted by Merc63
PS, that car didn't "snap" to the side. That was a gradual walk out of the back end with no throttle or steering correction.
Sounds like a turbo car that built some boost and surprised him.
Yep for me the guy was caught by surprised but even that doesn't justify the lack of reaction. Unless it is a novice.
For sure you need to learn your car. But even experimented drivers make mistakes ... See how DadC63 damaged his ... My take is we should all be humble while driving on the streets and use our wild side whenever we hit the track or appropriate roads
My take is we should all be humble while driving on the streets and use our wild side whenever we hit the track or appropriate roads
I (an admitted performance driving novice) didn't realize that romping on the throttle while heading in a straight line could cause such instability. Lesson learned here. Keeping TC ON all the time.
I (an admitted performance driving novice) didn't realize that romping on the throttle while heading in a straight line could cause such instability. Lesson learned here. Keeping TC ON all the time.
Yes, it can. Even a hard mash on the throttle in 2nd or 3rd gear, depending, can result in the rears breaking. No matter what excuses the BMW guys was claiming or others, it was driver error, in both power delivery and correction.
However, I wouldn't write yourself off and feel a lesson learned. And I wouldn't say you should now be scared and TC ON all the time. I would definitely recommend you enjoy those practices under normal driving experiences and around other innocent people. But I would tell you, not necessarily to track your car or that you even have interest too, to go find some open space a time or to where you can experiment. Explore your car. Find some time and space to turn some of these things off and exhibit how your car behaves. Learn about it and understand what some of these functions do, whether you are going to implement them or not. I certainly wouldn't say that you teach yourself in empty parking lots, then go apply that to real world driving. But I am a huge advocate for understanding your car and what it is/what it can be capable of. Even if you want to keep driving with all aides on, understanding your car is paramount in continued, enjoyable driving years with your vehicle.
I assume there should have been a more drastic steering of the front wheels to the right?
Yes indeed. It's quite possible to deal with oversteer as long as you at least turn the front wheels and also modulate the throttle a bit. He probably took his foot off of the gas but he didn't appear to turn at all.
But I am a huge advocate for understanding your car and what it is/what it can be capable of. Even if you want to keep driving with all aides on, understanding your car is paramount in continued, enjoyable driving years with your vehicle.
Typical driver error ... he lost his nerves and froze. Unfortunately, those driver aids are two fold ... giving a driver the false sense of how good they are behind the wheel, when in reality, the electronics compensate for lack of experience and skill. Since I own an M5 that I drive on a daily basis with the "nannies" turned off, even though I programmed those settings into one of the M buttons on the steering wheel, I still need to double click and confirm that I'm on my own ... his M4 is not any different. The double click is needed to "wake you up" ... to be prepared ... to have respect.
Yes, the tires weren't up to temp ... but that's not was caused the "accident" ... lack of experience, skill, weak nerves and too many years of relying on electronic driver aids did. When the rear breaks away, whether it's in a straight line by stomping on the throttle or going into a turn and being too early on the throttle on the way out, lifting is never a good idea ... if he made a small correction on the steering wheel and stayed on the throttle, this would not have happened ... lol, graduated from formula racing schools? My a$$ he did
Never kick a man when he's down. Easy to do in the world of the Interwebz. Hope he gets the car fixed back up soon, sucks when bad stuff happens to new cars.
The guy in the video made multiple rookie mistakes, and has either suffered a serious brain stem injury since his "formula training" days and "years of advanced driver training" or is lying about it, which his earlier posts on the f80 board support (someone caled him on it there). The multiple mistakes - from the most serious to the least - are that (1) he didin't take the conditions and circumstances into account, (2) he turned off the TC completely, and (3) didn't react properly in an attempt to gather it back up.
Can the C63 do the same? Yes, absolutely. It has even more torque that an f80, although the delivery is a little more linear. But it can and will catch you off-guard when you least expect it.
Most people driving high-powered RWD cars these days don't really realize just how quickly you can get in trouble and just how much the electronic nannies help. If you've grown up with cars made in the last 10-15 years, chances are you don't know how to react when the back steps out on you. Correcting oversteer - while not always possible, although in this particual case it certainly appears to be - is a thing that those of us that had RWD cars without all the electronics learned and fine-tuned every single day in the winter in places where it snows or when it rained. It's simple muscle memory, and once you learn, you don't forget or get "rusty" in a couple of years because you've been driving an Audi. And, while skid pad training and other HPDE training is certainly extremely valuable, even at the AMG DA advanced courses they ABSOLUTELY INSIST that the TC STAYS ON AT ALL TIMES. If you've grown up with cars that have it, even if you've spent a hell of a long time behind the wheel of a RWD car on a skid pad and the race track (and had a few shunts yourself along the way), always keep the TC on when driving on public streets.
I find it alarming that so many people on this and other boards believe they're highly skilled drivers and think it couldn't have hapened to them because they know how to correct oversteer or they suggest turning off the TC because it cuts in too early or something equaly stupid along those lines. By all means, please go to as many HPDE event as you can, do as many skid-pad execrices as you can or find an empty parking lot and practice, practice and practice some more - but never allow your ***** to get ahead of yoru brain. Even people with the skills of one Ayrton Senna can make similar mistakes on cold tires and pay the ultimate price.
Never kick a man when he's down. Easy to do in the world of the Interwebz. Hope he gets the car fixed back up soon, sucks when bad stuff happens to new cars.
I completely agree but you have to admit the guy had it coming. Its a different story if he just admitted fault and left it that, a stupid mistake. People are bashing because of the novel of excuses he decided to post to save face.
Its possible he maybe had lack of sleep or fatigue. Really delays your reactions and causes you to be in lala land. Then the back snaps out and before you even know whats going on that happens. Always important to rest up if you want to drive hard or do a track event. I know if im tired from working night shifts I wouldn't take off my traction control or try to hoon around.
Come on Diabolis with this TC bull****. Sure AMG wants it left on, you're driving their cars are you not? Lol
If you can't control your car with TC off its too much of a car for you period. TC is a bandaid to keep you on the road.
I'm not saying TC is completely useless, but to depend on it all the time on a public road, you got problems.
I've had a couple scares on the street but that is something you learn from, you can't learn with nanny TC on all the time.
This is a perfect example of what I am saying. Guy buys m4, drives with TC on all the time, tries to show off a bit and doesnt have a clue how to correct the car as it gradual steps out on him. Practice makes perfect.
Is that exhaust note for real, or did they over dub that farting noise?
LOL!...man that sounds like crap...exhaust must be the first mod one does when buying a new M3/M4...I know it performs like a proper sports car but the sound , what were the engineers thinking? more importantly, what head of development ok'd it?
01-08-2015, 12:36 PM
, what were the engineers thinking? more importantly, what head of development ok'd it?
