Could the C63 snap as quickly as in that M4 crash ?
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Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2013
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From: Montreal, QC
2013 C63 coupe P31
Could the C63 snap as quickly as in that M4 crash ?
Ok so the video of the M4 guy at cars and coffee got me thinking.. I've watched it many times and I can't understand how the car can get 90 degrees so quickly:
I mean OK the guy clearly did not correct it in time, but damn even when I accelerate way too fast my C has always kept it straight-ish (I do have the locking diff though). Could there be more than just driver error?
I'm thinking the Active M differential got confused and didn't lock right away. Maybe that and the fact the upshift at mid-drift didn't hook back the tires?
I mean OK the guy clearly did not correct it in time, but damn even when I accelerate way too fast my C has always kept it straight-ish (I do have the locking diff though). Could there be more than just driver error?
I'm thinking the Active M differential got confused and didn't lock right away. Maybe that and the fact the upshift at mid-drift didn't hook back the tires?
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From: Denham Springs,LA
'12 C63 Black Series, '12 ML350 BlueTech
Traction control off, smashed the pedal and lost it!! As simple as that.
Surely a novice since he didn't react and correct. Almost as if he was caught up by surprise. Maybe the first time with ESP off.
Surely a novice since he didn't react and correct. Almost as if he was caught up by surprise. Maybe the first time with ESP off.
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'10 C63
His post on the Bimmer threads says he had driven with the ESP off a lot prior to that, had a ton of track driving experience and that he didn't want anything unsafe to happen which is why he drove past the crowd slowly before stomping. It also says he was previously an audi guy and that he had a 1 psi difference in rear tire pressures. Whatever...still a moron.
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From: South Africa
2012 C63 AMG, 1991 325iS. Ex: 2011 C63 P31
Seems common on M cars....jokes!
I've driven the M4, it has tons of torque and if you keep your foot flat and upshift in the midrange, then that's an expected outcome for a novice.
I guess it is definitely possible in a C63, but you have to have fists made of ham (Richard Hammond voice)
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From: eNyCe
Steel Grey Metallic C63!!
http://jalopnik.com/how-not-to-expla...s-b-1677523538
Look at the many excuses that the M4 driver gave for the accident. If you read carefully, none of it was driver error. lolz
"Hey guys,
It was my car that was involved and a mistake was made. There were no intentions of doing anything out of the norm. In fact, you'll notice in the video that the car was going very slowly in front of the crowd. This was intentional because we've all watched too many YouTube videos of this sort of thing happening and wanted to make sure that nobody would get hurt should anything unexpected happen. Once the car was past the crowd the accelerator was pushed in a straight-line as I have done many times in the past when the rear snapped violently. The car was going ~30mph at that time. The car has been driven for 4700 miles and has been driven with DSC off many times including in the rain and never has the car snapped so violently just from accelerating. I chalk it up to several factors including cold temps (low 40s), cold tires and incorrect psi (more on that later) and of course driver error. More judicious use of the throttle should have been exercised. MDM mode was not used because MDM is too quick to intervene and cuts power prematurely (or maybe not).
Usually when the rear breaks loose, it does so progressively and steering correction will suffice. However, you can see in the video that the front tires are turned slightly to the right indicating opposite lock was put on the steering trying to prevent the car from doing a complete 180 however there wasn't enough real estate to counter how violently it snapped - though admittedty the gravity of the snap required immediate full oppo lock which was misread. I'm not sure why some are saying that no steering input was made because it was - one could argue it should have been sooner but again usually a little wiggle just takes small steering input and power through not a full-on immediate opposite lock as was needed in such a big snap - to me it actually seemed like it was happening in slow-mo although the vid makes it seem like it happened so fast. As the car started to correct it became apparent that there was no way out except over the curb which is where I put on the brakes and tried to straightline the curb as much as possible to avoid hitting the curb at an angle which would cause a lot of damage and potentiality flip/roll the car.8
I've driven many high hp rwd cars including vipers, porsches, corvettes, and formula cars and I've graduated from formula racing schools and have years of training in advanced car control and plenty of track time. Heck I remember day one of Formula school, half of the first day was spent on the skid pad learning how to keep a car from spinning if you lose traction. Maybe I need a refresher since it's been awhile and I've been driving AWD Audis for the past few years. Some of those other RWD cars I mentioned will snap fiercely and you have to be on extremely high alert, however my experience with the M4 has been that it tends to not snap so viciously in a straight line - but this time I was wrong. I would caution anyone thinking that it can't happen to them (count me as previously one of those) that anyone can make a mistake. I'm thankful that nobody was injured from such a mistake. Surprisingly, the car seems to be driving just fine with the only damage being the right plastic guard underneath the bumper which can be seen in the video. Surprising I know. 9
I mentioned earlier that I had incorrect PSI - let me explain. My PSI was low, so I inflated it a bit with a pump with an analog tire guage which of course is very imprecise compared to a digital gauge. I noticed that my right tire pressure was 1.5psi off of my left when viewing the PSI from the BMW onboard digital gauge (you can only do this while driving). However, as my car had been pulling to the right from day 1 of delivery (there's a big thread of many complaining about that on these forums). Miraculously, the car drifted to the right to a lesser extent with the right tire PSI being slightly higher than the left and so I was playing around with the idea of keeping it that way for a short time- however I knew that I needed to put the PSI equally across both tires but I just failed to do that before going to the meet. I have no idea if unequal PSI left to right contributed to the right rear spinning so differently than the left. 10
Anyways, I know I'll be ridiculed and called an idiot (and rightfully so) but I think many of you also know that I didn't do anything intentionally out of the ordinary or unsafe. I'm not sure I was even trying to show off as acceleration happened when the car was past the crowd and it's not like a powerslide or burnout or anything of that sort occurred. 11
I also think the M4 is a fine car and I have no complaints about the amount of power or torque or tire width or grip or anything. In fact, the whole reason I got the M4 is because it's not AWD and I like the rear moving around a bit. Mistakes happen and I've learned a lesson - and from now on will keep DSC on when driving around because there's too much at stake to make a mistake while driving - no matter how good or bad of a driver you are. Thanks for hearing me out. It certainly has been a humbling experience.12"
Look at the many excuses that the M4 driver gave for the accident. If you read carefully, none of it was driver error. lolz
"Hey guys,
It was my car that was involved and a mistake was made. There were no intentions of doing anything out of the norm. In fact, you'll notice in the video that the car was going very slowly in front of the crowd. This was intentional because we've all watched too many YouTube videos of this sort of thing happening and wanted to make sure that nobody would get hurt should anything unexpected happen. Once the car was past the crowd the accelerator was pushed in a straight-line as I have done many times in the past when the rear snapped violently. The car was going ~30mph at that time. The car has been driven for 4700 miles and has been driven with DSC off many times including in the rain and never has the car snapped so violently just from accelerating. I chalk it up to several factors including cold temps (low 40s), cold tires and incorrect psi (more on that later) and of course driver error. More judicious use of the throttle should have been exercised. MDM mode was not used because MDM is too quick to intervene and cuts power prematurely (or maybe not).
Usually when the rear breaks loose, it does so progressively and steering correction will suffice. However, you can see in the video that the front tires are turned slightly to the right indicating opposite lock was put on the steering trying to prevent the car from doing a complete 180 however there wasn't enough real estate to counter how violently it snapped - though admittedty the gravity of the snap required immediate full oppo lock which was misread. I'm not sure why some are saying that no steering input was made because it was - one could argue it should have been sooner but again usually a little wiggle just takes small steering input and power through not a full-on immediate opposite lock as was needed in such a big snap - to me it actually seemed like it was happening in slow-mo although the vid makes it seem like it happened so fast. As the car started to correct it became apparent that there was no way out except over the curb which is where I put on the brakes and tried to straightline the curb as much as possible to avoid hitting the curb at an angle which would cause a lot of damage and potentiality flip/roll the car.8
I've driven many high hp rwd cars including vipers, porsches, corvettes, and formula cars and I've graduated from formula racing schools and have years of training in advanced car control and plenty of track time. Heck I remember day one of Formula school, half of the first day was spent on the skid pad learning how to keep a car from spinning if you lose traction. Maybe I need a refresher since it's been awhile and I've been driving AWD Audis for the past few years. Some of those other RWD cars I mentioned will snap fiercely and you have to be on extremely high alert, however my experience with the M4 has been that it tends to not snap so viciously in a straight line - but this time I was wrong. I would caution anyone thinking that it can't happen to them (count me as previously one of those) that anyone can make a mistake. I'm thankful that nobody was injured from such a mistake. Surprisingly, the car seems to be driving just fine with the only damage being the right plastic guard underneath the bumper which can be seen in the video. Surprising I know. 9
I mentioned earlier that I had incorrect PSI - let me explain. My PSI was low, so I inflated it a bit with a pump with an analog tire guage which of course is very imprecise compared to a digital gauge. I noticed that my right tire pressure was 1.5psi off of my left when viewing the PSI from the BMW onboard digital gauge (you can only do this while driving). However, as my car had been pulling to the right from day 1 of delivery (there's a big thread of many complaining about that on these forums). Miraculously, the car drifted to the right to a lesser extent with the right tire PSI being slightly higher than the left and so I was playing around with the idea of keeping it that way for a short time- however I knew that I needed to put the PSI equally across both tires but I just failed to do that before going to the meet. I have no idea if unequal PSI left to right contributed to the right rear spinning so differently than the left. 10
Anyways, I know I'll be ridiculed and called an idiot (and rightfully so) but I think many of you also know that I didn't do anything intentionally out of the ordinary or unsafe. I'm not sure I was even trying to show off as acceleration happened when the car was past the crowd and it's not like a powerslide or burnout or anything of that sort occurred. 11
I also think the M4 is a fine car and I have no complaints about the amount of power or torque or tire width or grip or anything. In fact, the whole reason I got the M4 is because it's not AWD and I like the rear moving around a bit. Mistakes happen and I've learned a lesson - and from now on will keep DSC on when driving around because there's too much at stake to make a mistake while driving - no matter how good or bad of a driver you are. Thanks for hearing me out. It certainly has been a humbling experience.12"
Last edited by I am Jeff; Jan 8, 2015 at 05:23 AM.
hahaha
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From: Chicago, IL
2018 AMG E63s
with the sort of driving experience that he describes (in really over-the-top detail) that just shouldn't have happened. A 1.5psi tire pressure diff? Cold temps in CA? C'mon. It was just a fail, leave it at that.
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2012 C63 P31 sedan
With the TC off yes the C63 can snap like that, but then again what is the purpose of turning off traction control on the street? I'm sure the new M has some sort of sport mode as well that lets the wheels spin a little bit. This type of accident should be totally avoidable with the traction control in sport.
He was lucky there were no cars or pedestrians around.
He was lucky there were no cars or pedestrians around.
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2006 E320 CDI 2014 C63 507 Coupe 2012 E550 4M 2016 E63s Wagon
Accident isn't that big of a deal. Turn off ESP and any powerful RWD car will do that. Driver was steering toward the median and then didn't correct (it may not have been correctable, and the driver did miss the sign). I'm surprised the car fared as well as it did.
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S550 on order
it's kind of sad and pathetic a brand new 2014/2015? M4 let loose so easily...the road didn't even seem that wet, cold tires i guess
@redisel, not true, I turn off ESP all the time in my car and I have basically bald tires and it still hooks up 9/10 times fine, a lot has to do with not WOTing it, you gotta feather the pedal if you want things to work properly
@redisel, not true, I turn off ESP all the time in my car and I have basically bald tires and it still hooks up 9/10 times fine, a lot has to do with not WOTing it, you gotta feather the pedal if you want things to work properly
Last edited by avery.whss; Jan 8, 2015 at 11:38 AM.
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2012 C63 AMG Sedan
Guys guys come on give the guy a break.....
He probably used to be a previous gen M3 driver, upgraded to the M4, suddenly found himself with more torque than a lawnmower, and just didn't know how to handle it.
In all seriousness, the guy lost control big time, then provided the world's longest list of excuses that didn't make sense to try to redeem himself a bit but only looked more like an ***.
To sum up he said:
"I am an extremely good driver with tons of experience but there were elements out of my control that caused that crash. It was a cold 70 degrees in California, there was a small amount of dew on the plants next to the road, the planets weren't aligned correctly at the time, and my passenger's weight was 2 lbs heavier which threw off the balance of the car. Under those elements, with any other driver, the crash may have been much worse but I have experience!"
He probably used to be a previous gen M3 driver, upgraded to the M4, suddenly found himself with more torque than a lawnmower, and just didn't know how to handle it.
In all seriousness, the guy lost control big time, then provided the world's longest list of excuses that didn't make sense to try to redeem himself a bit but only looked more like an ***.
To sum up he said:
"I am an extremely good driver with tons of experience but there were elements out of my control that caused that crash. It was a cold 70 degrees in California, there was a small amount of dew on the plants next to the road, the planets weren't aligned correctly at the time, and my passenger's weight was 2 lbs heavier which threw off the balance of the car. Under those elements, with any other driver, the crash may have been much worse but I have experience!"
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
http://jalopnik.com/how-not-to-expla...s-b-1677523538
Look at the many excuses that the M4 driver gave for the accident. If you read carefully, none of it was driver error. lolz
"Hey guys,
It was my car that was involved and a mistake was made. There were no intentions of doing anything out of the norm. In fact, you'll notice in the video that the car was going very slowly in front of the crowd. This was intentional because we've all watched too many YouTube videos of this sort of thing happening and wanted to make sure that nobody would get hurt should anything unexpected happen. Once the car was past the crowd the accelerator was pushed in a straight-line as I have done many times in the past when the rear snapped violently. The car was going ~30mph at that time. The car has been driven for 4700 miles and has been driven with DSC off many times including in the rain and never has the car snapped so violently just from accelerating. I chalk it up to several factors including cold temps (low 40s), cold tires and incorrect psi (more on that later) and of course driver error. More judicious use of the throttle should have been exercised. MDM mode was not used because MDM is too quick to intervene and cuts power prematurely (or maybe not).
Usually when the rear breaks loose, it does so progressively and steering correction will suffice. However, you can see in the video that the front tires are turned slightly to the right indicating opposite lock was put on the steering trying to prevent the car from doing a complete 180 however there wasn't enough real estate to counter how violently it snapped - though admittedty the gravity of the snap required immediate full oppo lock which was misread. I'm not sure why some are saying that no steering input was made because it was - one could argue it should have been sooner but again usually a little wiggle just takes small steering input and power through not a full-on immediate opposite lock as was needed in such a big snap - to me it actually seemed like it was happening in slow-mo although the vid makes it seem like it happened so fast. As the car started to correct it became apparent that there was no way out except over the curb which is where I put on the brakes and tried to straightline the curb as much as possible to avoid hitting the curb at an angle which would cause a lot of damage and potentiality flip/roll the car.8
I've driven many high hp rwd cars including vipers, porsches, corvettes, and formula cars and I've graduated from formula racing schools and have years of training in advanced car control and plenty of track time. Heck I remember day one of Formula school, half of the first day was spent on the skid pad learning how to keep a car from spinning if you lose traction. Maybe I need a refresher since it's been awhile and I've been driving AWD Audis for the past few years. Some of those other RWD cars I mentioned will snap fiercely and you have to be on extremely high alert, however my experience with the M4 has been that it tends to not snap so viciously in a straight line - but this time I was wrong. I would caution anyone thinking that it can't happen to them (count me as previously one of those) that anyone can make a mistake. I'm thankful that nobody was injured from such a mistake. Surprisingly, the car seems to be driving just fine with the only damage being the right plastic guard underneath the bumper which can be seen in the video. Surprising I know. 9
I mentioned earlier that I had incorrect PSI - let me explain. My PSI was low, so I inflated it a bit with a pump with an analog tire guage which of course is very imprecise compared to a digital gauge. I noticed that my right tire pressure was 1.5psi off of my left when viewing the PSI from the BMW onboard digital gauge (you can only do this while driving). However, as my car had been pulling to the right from day 1 of delivery (there's a big thread of many complaining about that on these forums). Miraculously, the car drifted to the right to a lesser extent with the right tire PSI being slightly higher than the left and so I was playing around with the idea of keeping it that way for a short time- however I knew that I needed to put the PSI equally across both tires but I just failed to do that before going to the meet. I have no idea if unequal PSI left to right contributed to the right rear spinning so differently than the left. 10
Anyways, I know I'll be ridiculed and called an idiot (and rightfully so) but I think many of you also know that I didn't do anything intentionally out of the ordinary or unsafe. I'm not sure I was even trying to show off as acceleration happened when the car was past the crowd and it's not like a powerslide or burnout or anything of that sort occurred. 11
I also think the M4 is a fine car and I have no complaints about the amount of power or torque or tire width or grip or anything. In fact, the whole reason I got the M4 is because it's not AWD and I like the rear moving around a bit. Mistakes happen and I've learned a lesson - and from now on will keep DSC on when driving around because there's too much at stake to make a mistake while driving - no matter how good or bad of a driver you are. Thanks for hearing me out. It certainly has been a humbling experience.12"
Look at the many excuses that the M4 driver gave for the accident. If you read carefully, none of it was driver error. lolz
"Hey guys,
It was my car that was involved and a mistake was made. There were no intentions of doing anything out of the norm. In fact, you'll notice in the video that the car was going very slowly in front of the crowd. This was intentional because we've all watched too many YouTube videos of this sort of thing happening and wanted to make sure that nobody would get hurt should anything unexpected happen. Once the car was past the crowd the accelerator was pushed in a straight-line as I have done many times in the past when the rear snapped violently. The car was going ~30mph at that time. The car has been driven for 4700 miles and has been driven with DSC off many times including in the rain and never has the car snapped so violently just from accelerating. I chalk it up to several factors including cold temps (low 40s), cold tires and incorrect psi (more on that later) and of course driver error. More judicious use of the throttle should have been exercised. MDM mode was not used because MDM is too quick to intervene and cuts power prematurely (or maybe not).
Usually when the rear breaks loose, it does so progressively and steering correction will suffice. However, you can see in the video that the front tires are turned slightly to the right indicating opposite lock was put on the steering trying to prevent the car from doing a complete 180 however there wasn't enough real estate to counter how violently it snapped - though admittedty the gravity of the snap required immediate full oppo lock which was misread. I'm not sure why some are saying that no steering input was made because it was - one could argue it should have been sooner but again usually a little wiggle just takes small steering input and power through not a full-on immediate opposite lock as was needed in such a big snap - to me it actually seemed like it was happening in slow-mo although the vid makes it seem like it happened so fast. As the car started to correct it became apparent that there was no way out except over the curb which is where I put on the brakes and tried to straightline the curb as much as possible to avoid hitting the curb at an angle which would cause a lot of damage and potentiality flip/roll the car.8
I've driven many high hp rwd cars including vipers, porsches, corvettes, and formula cars and I've graduated from formula racing schools and have years of training in advanced car control and plenty of track time. Heck I remember day one of Formula school, half of the first day was spent on the skid pad learning how to keep a car from spinning if you lose traction. Maybe I need a refresher since it's been awhile and I've been driving AWD Audis for the past few years. Some of those other RWD cars I mentioned will snap fiercely and you have to be on extremely high alert, however my experience with the M4 has been that it tends to not snap so viciously in a straight line - but this time I was wrong. I would caution anyone thinking that it can't happen to them (count me as previously one of those) that anyone can make a mistake. I'm thankful that nobody was injured from such a mistake. Surprisingly, the car seems to be driving just fine with the only damage being the right plastic guard underneath the bumper which can be seen in the video. Surprising I know. 9
I mentioned earlier that I had incorrect PSI - let me explain. My PSI was low, so I inflated it a bit with a pump with an analog tire guage which of course is very imprecise compared to a digital gauge. I noticed that my right tire pressure was 1.5psi off of my left when viewing the PSI from the BMW onboard digital gauge (you can only do this while driving). However, as my car had been pulling to the right from day 1 of delivery (there's a big thread of many complaining about that on these forums). Miraculously, the car drifted to the right to a lesser extent with the right tire PSI being slightly higher than the left and so I was playing around with the idea of keeping it that way for a short time- however I knew that I needed to put the PSI equally across both tires but I just failed to do that before going to the meet. I have no idea if unequal PSI left to right contributed to the right rear spinning so differently than the left. 10
Anyways, I know I'll be ridiculed and called an idiot (and rightfully so) but I think many of you also know that I didn't do anything intentionally out of the ordinary or unsafe. I'm not sure I was even trying to show off as acceleration happened when the car was past the crowd and it's not like a powerslide or burnout or anything of that sort occurred. 11
I also think the M4 is a fine car and I have no complaints about the amount of power or torque or tire width or grip or anything. In fact, the whole reason I got the M4 is because it's not AWD and I like the rear moving around a bit. Mistakes happen and I've learned a lesson - and from now on will keep DSC on when driving around because there's too much at stake to make a mistake while driving - no matter how good or bad of a driver you are. Thanks for hearing me out. It certainly has been a humbling experience.12"
And he admits to humility...he says he will drive with dsc on from now on... He respects the safety issue of this event.... What else do you want to hear?
I read it 'carefully'
Last edited by PeterUbers; Jan 8, 2015 at 12:19 PM.
