ACG W204 C63 Brake Packages
#51
I don't think anybody is arguing the principle. The question is a quantitative one. A disk rotor is a pretty lousy and small fan running at 1000-2000 rpm. How much air does it really move? Those cast iron 'vanes' are far from ideally shaped either. How does that compare to the airflow from the speed of the car moving?
So, many car makers do not want to take on the complexity of having to deal with 2 different rotors. They design their cars for street driving.
Can you quantify the 'massive heat build up on the right' you have observed when tracking? How much hotter did the right rotor get than the left? That would be interesting information to have.
So, many car makers do not want to take on the complexity of having to deal with 2 different rotors. They design their cars for street driving.
Can you quantify the 'massive heat build up on the right' you have observed when tracking? How much hotter did the right rotor get than the left? That would be interesting information to have.
I can only assume that you don't really own a high performance vehicle like an AMG. I'm very sorry I posted my comments. I was hoping to get real comments from real owners.
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm not sure what your position is. I own a C63, I am tracking the car, I have had problems with the brakes and I'm asking some questions around heat build up. Your suggestion that the discs run at 1000-2000 rpm is ridiculous. In order to know this, you'd have to know vehicle speeds. Which you don't.
I can only assume that you don't really own a high performance vehicle like an AMG. I'm very sorry I posted my comments. I was hoping to get real comments from real owners.
I can only assume that you don't really own a high performance vehicle like an AMG. I'm very sorry I posted my comments. I was hoping to get real comments from real owners.
#53
What a joke. Good luck with your little boys club. This isn't a forum interested in discussing real issues by any means. I'll continue to work with people that actually have a clue.
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
I currently drive a P30. This is my second C63. I have had the P30 2 piece rotors (which are not true piece as has been discussed ad infinitum) as well as two other brands of aftermarket rotors. I have also had stock pads, as well as two other brands. I track my car 4-6 days a year, over 4.5 years of ownership. Based on that, I would venture to say my experience level is at the higher end of the spectrum. But, I would also say I am more a gut feeling, butt dyno kind of guy, and have never taken temp readings off my brakes for example.
When discussing the front rotors, the P30s ARE directional, they just only face one way. There is only one part number. You may see them listed as L or R but there is only one part number. The direction is correct on the L, but not the R. This is just one of a few ways that the performance pack brakes may not be all they are talked up to be. Yes, they are better than 'the normal' but gains are debatable and have to do with repeated track use, and are negligible on the street. I too have had my RF caliper change color, but interestingly it happened when using after market rotors, which are truly directional, on a day with a lot of track time and several very sharp corners and limited straights. This would be, I believe, that as deadlyvt stated air flow is limited regardless, and with the two piece most of the gains are due to increased surface area vs directional air flow.
AMG is a performance company, but not of a ***** out variety, and they know how 90% of these cars are driven. These are the performance rotors, but again, not of the ***** out variety, as they are meant for guys like me with the occasional track day and not for regular racing. Yes, they could be a true two piece, yes they could be truly directional, but that would cost more and the amount of complaining on here about PP rotor pricing tells you why they didn't go that route. The PP rotors ARE more money, but whether they are expensive or not is relative. I don't think they are pricey compared to some other manufacturers similar products. They are a step up in pricing and performance, and yet not a stratospheric jump up in either department. For those of us who want lighter, truly directional 2 piece rotors there are better, lighter options that in the long run have lower costs than stock due to the ability to reuse the hats and just order the rings. Tal and ACG have some of the best options for this, and I heartily endorse both the quality of the product and Tal/ACG's service.
We can wish AMG had better/more options, but they don't so any discussion of that is gum flapping on our parts. If you want better, the smart choice is to just call Tal and move on. These are non warranty parts and we are free to replace them with anything we choose.
PS. Rear rotors are the same on any package. Again, only one part number.
When discussing the front rotors, the P30s ARE directional, they just only face one way. There is only one part number. You may see them listed as L or R but there is only one part number. The direction is correct on the L, but not the R. This is just one of a few ways that the performance pack brakes may not be all they are talked up to be. Yes, they are better than 'the normal' but gains are debatable and have to do with repeated track use, and are negligible on the street. I too have had my RF caliper change color, but interestingly it happened when using after market rotors, which are truly directional, on a day with a lot of track time and several very sharp corners and limited straights. This would be, I believe, that as deadlyvt stated air flow is limited regardless, and with the two piece most of the gains are due to increased surface area vs directional air flow.
AMG is a performance company, but not of a ***** out variety, and they know how 90% of these cars are driven. These are the performance rotors, but again, not of the ***** out variety, as they are meant for guys like me with the occasional track day and not for regular racing. Yes, they could be a true two piece, yes they could be truly directional, but that would cost more and the amount of complaining on here about PP rotor pricing tells you why they didn't go that route. The PP rotors ARE more money, but whether they are expensive or not is relative. I don't think they are pricey compared to some other manufacturers similar products. They are a step up in pricing and performance, and yet not a stratospheric jump up in either department. For those of us who want lighter, truly directional 2 piece rotors there are better, lighter options that in the long run have lower costs than stock due to the ability to reuse the hats and just order the rings. Tal and ACG have some of the best options for this, and I heartily endorse both the quality of the product and Tal/ACG's service.
We can wish AMG had better/more options, but they don't so any discussion of that is gum flapping on our parts. If you want better, the smart choice is to just call Tal and move on. These are non warranty parts and we are free to replace them with anything we choose.
PS. Rear rotors are the same on any package. Again, only one part number.
Last edited by 604 C63; 01-24-2016 at 11:59 AM. Reason: formatting spelling etc. in other words, the usual.
#55
MBWorld Fanatic!
And by clicking on members names you can very easily find out what they drive, and whether they have track experience etc.
So, there is not really any need to 'suppose' any of those things.
For clarity: I calculated the rpm of a wheel for my above post. 2000 rpm corresponds to approx. 80 mph - fair approximation of the average speed we usually drive on a track.
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'd put your ego aside and listen to the things he says. Same thing with ACG and their advice on brakes. These guys (ACG & Wobble) know what they are doing.
Please don't make this a hostile thread, because it is a great thread. Suppress what other members say or head to private messages to "dish it out" if you have to.
As for your comments on brakes, AMG's, and high performance... A c63 is an out of the box german hot rod for a normal joe shmoe looking for a grin on his face. Those who take advantage of the platform and take their cars to the track (and who expect results) are forced to make some changes. For example, Wobble does not have OEM rotors on his car, for a reason...
Thanks
Last edited by CarHopper; 01-24-2016 at 03:34 PM.
#58
MBWorld Fanatic!
Good for you PurpleHeart. I saw this going sideways and just threw some info at it, but you were correct that Wobble64 deserved some support there. He didn't deserve that hostility or those comments, especially when gcm is asking for info, has a single digit post count, and no track record (pun intended) as far as this forum is concerned.
Wobble - you stayed pretty chill there. Nice. I respect, admire and aspire to that. Some days are better than others.
Wobble - you stayed pretty chill there. Nice. I respect, admire and aspire to that. Some days are better than others.
#59
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
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2019 911 GTS / 2016 X3 / 2015 E63s / 1993 RX-7
Do people run ducting to the front rotors on the C63?
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
#60
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 975
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2014 C63 AMG 507 sedan
Do people run ducting to the front rotors on the C63?
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
Some cars utilize channels in the undertray to guide air to the rotors. Not sure if the C63, or the Black Series utilize this.
Just to add, slotted rotors are directional.
#61
C63 Brake Packages
OK. I admit it. I was a dick. Some great people offered assistance and I went full stupid. At any rate, I thank all of those who offered assistance based your experience.
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
#63
Banned
Thread Starter
Wow this thread went sideways for a minute lol.
Correct, the OEM you cannot service just the rings. MB only offers a full replacement. The girodiscs you can replace the rings and re-use the hubs. Hope that helps
Absolutely. PM Sent.
Absolutely. PM Sent.
#64
Banned
Thread Starter
Do people run ducting to the front rotors on the C63?
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
I ask because in the RX-7 world (my previous life), this was very common, and extremely effective in helping with dealing with heat. I understand that there is a huge difference in weight between the two cars, but the benefits of ducting would likely also apply to our cars.
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
So, I hope you find answers to what you want to know here (in the Brakes section of the FAQs). If you have questions left, feel free to ask!
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
Quick. Let's join hands and sing Kumbaya. You guys are obviously grown ups.....theres no room for your kind on the internet lol
#67
Member
Trying to decide on brakes, I have the OEM 2-piece on the P30 package.
Do you know if the Girodisc 2-piece rotors F/R are lighter than the OEM 2-piece?
Thanks
Do you know if the Girodisc 2-piece rotors F/R are lighter than the OEM 2-piece?
Thanks