To header or not to header???
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 564
Likes: 1
From: Australia
AMG
To header or not to header???
Ok my brother is building a M156/C63
Current mods:
Filters
Tune
Exhaust modifications
Current power: 430whp or 320kw @ wheels
We're not very experienced with NA motors so i thought i'd post this up for him to get some advice from the fella's on here with headers.
Taking away power figures, what can you expect to gain from installing headers in terms of driveability? Better acceleration? Noticeable torque gains to redline?
Everyone seems to just talk about power figures after installing headers, but what we would like to know is the difference with his setup having headers and not having headers.
Would be great if someone could help out.
His header decision would be DPE (difilippo) or IPE. So based upon those two because we're in Australia and they're the RHD header's he's looking at.
Current mods:
Filters
Tune
Exhaust modifications
Current power: 430whp or 320kw @ wheels
We're not very experienced with NA motors so i thought i'd post this up for him to get some advice from the fella's on here with headers.
Taking away power figures, what can you expect to gain from installing headers in terms of driveability? Better acceleration? Noticeable torque gains to redline?
Everyone seems to just talk about power figures after installing headers, but what we would like to know is the difference with his setup having headers and not having headers.
Would be great if someone could help out.
His header decision would be DPE (difilippo) or IPE. So based upon those two because we're in Australia and they're the RHD header's he's looking at.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 1,153
From: NY
E63S | X5
Here is a dyno graph of an e63 (M156) pre and post headers. Most of the time people are talking about their peak gains, however, with this graph you can really see the full powerband and gains. If you notice the torque line, there are steady gains throughout the entire powerband between what appears to 50wtq-75wtq towards the end. Then you'll notice that as torque begins to taper off the biggest gains in HP begin to take over all the way up to redline.
So, in other words, acceleration is going to be better as long as you have the ability to put the power to the ground and once you're on the move and start reaching top end power in 2nd - 3rd - 4th gear it is going to pull much harder.
Hope that helps
Graph:
(Don't pay attention to the actual numbers, just look at the gains. All dyno's read differently and all that matters here are the gains)
So, in other words, acceleration is going to be better as long as you have the ability to put the power to the ground and once you're on the move and start reaching top end power in 2nd - 3rd - 4th gear it is going to pull much harder.
Hope that helps
Graph:
(Don't pay attention to the actual numbers, just look at the gains. All dyno's read differently and all that matters here are the gains)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 1,153
From: NY
E63S | X5
Link to thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...mann-tune.html
Quote from thread:
Run 3 = stock except for AFE Pro Dry filters and charcoals removed
385whp/375wtq
Run 6 = charcoals removed, AFE Pro Dry filters, MBH headers, MBH catted midpipes, Kleemann Stage 2 tune, 91 octane Chevron fuel
463whp/419wtq
Quote from thread:
Run 3 = stock except for AFE Pro Dry filters and charcoals removed
385whp/375wtq
Run 6 = charcoals removed, AFE Pro Dry filters, MBH headers, MBH catted midpipes, Kleemann Stage 2 tune, 91 octane Chevron fuel
463whp/419wtq
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 564
Likes: 1
From: Australia
AMG
Nice.
Pros and cons to headers?
Cons i already see it only yields a 30hp gain getting headers without doing the whole exhaust. That's why i was more interested in knowing what it feels like rather than what the dyno sheets say.
That sheet you posted is quite impressive.
He's mainly after acceleration increase that'll hold to redline. So to put it simply he wants the rev needle to move as fast as possible without going forced induction lol.
Pros and cons to headers?
Cons i already see it only yields a 30hp gain getting headers without doing the whole exhaust. That's why i was more interested in knowing what it feels like rather than what the dyno sheets say.
That sheet you posted is quite impressive.
He's mainly after acceleration increase that'll hold to redline. So to put it simply he wants the rev needle to move as fast as possible without going forced induction lol.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 1,153
From: NY
E63S | X5
Yeah, don't take that graph as a "this is definitely what is going to happen." More than likely, his car will see even greater gains and will surely pull harder to redline no matter what.
Keep in mind, that is from an e63 which comes from the factory rated for 510hp, not the 451.
Pros -- simple, just gains everywhere. The car will feel and actually be quicker.
Cons -- Some will said it makes the car too loud. Comfort mode cruising around town you won't notice a huge jump in noise. However, cold starts and WOT will be quite loud. Also, they are a little expensive.
If he goes with headers also be sure to tune for headers.
Keep in mind, that is from an e63 which comes from the factory rated for 510hp, not the 451.
Pros -- simple, just gains everywhere. The car will feel and actually be quicker.
Cons -- Some will said it makes the car too loud. Comfort mode cruising around town you won't notice a huge jump in noise. However, cold starts and WOT will be quite loud. Also, they are a little expensive.
If he goes with headers also be sure to tune for headers.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 1,153
From: NY
E63S | X5
Retune. It may adapt some but you'll leave a lot of power on the table without a retune.
If he has a Eurocharged tune they'll help him out with a header tune (may not even have to pay any extra). However, a custom dyno tune specific to the car is always the best option if that option is available.
If he has a Eurocharged tune they'll help him out with a header tune (may not even have to pay any extra). However, a custom dyno tune specific to the car is always the best option if that option is available.
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