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So I take it you're not going to answer my question?
Miscommunication, if you heard "there is no V6 tune" then it is "yet." And as posted before on the specs on it, it will be all explained in a V6 post on what exactly the changes are.
Miscommunication, if you heard "there is no V6 tune" then it is "yet." And as posted before on the specs on it, it will be all explained in a V6 post on what exactly the changes are.
Thanks
I appreciate that, thank you. In a post recently you or someone at eurocharged said that a release was imminent. Timetable?
It's worked well for me. Added ROW boxes and think I'll stop in again soon for another dyno to compare against this one. Interested to see what whp gains are there.
I've never dyno'd my C63.... but the gains are impressive.
My car is non P31.
I raced by buddy's supercharged E46 M3 last year and he put a solid 10+ car lengths on me.
This year, after I did Eurocharged V5... we ran again. He pulled maybe a car length on me, 2 cars MAX. Big improvement. Headers and I'll take him for sure.
It's worked well for me. Added ROW boxes and think I'll stop in again soon for another dyno to compare against this one. Interested to see what whp gains are there.
Was your dyno done on the same day before and after the tune and using same octane gas? If so those are great gains on the 507.
Is Eurocharged still planning to release a v6 tune or is this not happening?
Was your dyno done on the same day before and after the tune and using same octane gas? If so those are great gains on the 507.
Is Eurocharged still planning to release a v6 tune or is this not happening?
it would be great if someone can answer my question,
first i am not seeing a geat gain from 507hp to 525hp crank, cause this is the minimum a tuner must give, stock sl63 s63 e63 cl63.. all have from factory 525hp, so a simple copy of corresponding maps from the factory stock 63 flash (525hp) to the ones of c63 stock, p30/p31 and 507 must give 525hp,
i would love to see a before/after same day dyno of 63 cars that have 525hp how much they can give, also all dynos that i saw have between 55 and 60 whp gain from a tune to a stock c63 including my car, so 457 plus 65/70 hp are in the range of 525 hp crank, so where are the 540hp/548hp crank claimed?
They all end up with the same power. P31, 507 etc may spin a little faster due to lighter internals but hp is the same.
Yea but with it spinning faster due to
Less weight that means a tuned p31 has a better power weight ratio than a tuned standard car.
Equal power with less weight and quicker revving would translate to the p31 most likely being faster in a real world drag race against a standard tuned car.
it would be great if someone can answer my question,
first i am not seeing a geat gain from 507hp to 525hp crank, cause this is the minimum a tuner must give, stock sl63 s63 e63 cl63.. all have from factory 525hp, so a simple copy of corresponding maps from the factory stock 63 flash (525hp) to the ones of c63 stock, p30/p31 and 507 must give 525hp,
i would love to see a before/after same day dyno of 63 cars that have 525hp how much they can give, also all dynos that i saw have between 55 and 60 whp gain from a tune to a stock c63 including my car, so 457 plus 65/70 hp are in the range of 525 hp crank, so where are the 540hp/548hp crank claimed?
It looks like he gained about 17whp at peak from the looks of the graph.
As for the high crank numbers doesn't Eurocharged say those numbers are assuming a 25% drivetrain loss?
So if the losses were a lower % then we would probably all end up at around 525bhp as manufacturers use a lower % loss than EC to rate the cars from factory.
And as far as I know the e63 has 518hp? 525 is PS which is in the UK, a different rating than HP.
Just like a UK c63 vs US is rated at 487 vs 481hp in the US.
Yea but with it spinning faster due to
Less weight that means a tuned p31 has a better power weight ratio than a tuned standard car.
Equal power with less weight and quicker revving would translate to the p31 most likely being faster in a real world drag race against a standard tuned car.
You are talking marginal differences, easily negated by variances in driver skill.
You asked specifically about peak dyno hp. This what I answered about.
I think you would see the difference between a P31 and a non P31 should you take this motor to a
higher level ie supercharged.
You are talking marginal differences, easily negated by variances in driver skill.
You asked specifically about peak dyno hp. This what I answered about.
I think you would see the difference between a P31 and a non P31 should you take this motor to a
higher level ie supercharged.
Yup very marginal. I think it's 8lbs of unsprung mass, then the p31 are another 6lbs for each of the front rotors
Overall it comes out to it being about 80lbs lighter of dead weight. Marginal but enough to pull ahead with equal drivers.
Now I wonder if we're ever seeing a v6 tune?
And is it clear that the p31 gains power with the latest v5 tune?
The 507 graph above shows gains yet people still question if it gains any power over the stock p31 tune. This confuses me
I doubt it. They have wrung all the reliable power they can out of it. If they do it will just be a minor tweak. I personally prefer V4, without the throttle blips which can be crazy loud sometimes.
Originally Posted by Amg63-
is it clear that the p31 gains power with the latest v5 tune?
P31 has a different ECU file than non P31. Regardless of the original car, that file is replaced and both versions end up with the same power. So non P31 has higher gains, because it had more room having started off with 30 fewer hp.
Originally Posted by Amg63-
507 graph above shows gains yet people still question if it gains any power over the stock p31 tune. This confuses me
See the answer above. Think of it like 3 different 5 gallon buckets - 1 has one gallon of water in it, 1 has 2 gallons of water in it, and 1 has three. Dump all the water out of all 3 buckets. Fill all 3 with 5 gallons of the new high performance water. Now all 3 have 5 gallons. Sure, they all gained a different amount cos they started with different amounts, but they all ended up at 5 gallons. Overly simplistic sure, but no matter what C63 version you have or what stock ECU file version your car started with, once you replace it with the V5 you are ending up at approximately 525-530hp.
I doubt it. They have wrung all the reliable power they can out of it. If they do it will just be a minor tweak. I personally prefer V4, without the throttle blips which can be crazy loud sometimes.
P31 has a different ECU file than non P31. Regardless of the original car, that file is replaced and both versions end up with the same power. So non P31 has higher gains, because it had more room having started off with 30 fewer hp.
See the answer above. Think of it like 3 different 5 gallon buckets - 1 has one gallon of water in it, 1 has 2 gallons of water in it, and 1 has three. Dump all the water out of all 3 buckets. Fill all 3 with 5 gallons of the new high performance water. Now all 3 have 5 gallons. Sure, they all gained a different amount cos they started with different amounts, but they all ended up at 5 gallons. Overly simplistic sure, but no matter what C63 version you have or what stock ECU file version your car started with, once you replace it with the V5 you are ending up at approximately 525-530hp.
Thanks for the detailed response. So many threads here claiming that it's only worth tuning a non p31 car because people say p31 doesn't make more after a tune.
People say this because apparently the p31 is underrated at 481hp and is more like a 507 car just rated lower.
Do you know if this is really true or is a p31 really going from 481bhp to 525hp?
Either way even if it's underrated at 507bhp it should still gain 20+bhp bringing it to 525-530 as you say and that's good for about 15-20whp.
IMO I still think that's a decent power gain and worth doing the tune for that even on any tuned factory car such as p31/507/BS models
In addition, the tune makes the car more responsive and overall more aggressive to drive so that's another bonus.
Too bad they can't squeeze out a bit more with the v6, but maybe they can do other things with a tune to further improve the way it drives? Not sure about this at this point in the game.
Worth tuning? I suppose thats a personal decision. Would I tune for 10hp? No. 25-30? maybe. 50? yes.
So I would tune a "regular" C63. I did. Twice. The gains are huge and instant.
I might tune a P31. I just got one, and all I read suggests that their power is under-rated by 20hp or so. I believe its OE Tuning that first showed that. That makes it about 500hp, and I'm unsure if I want to start tinkering with the ECU for 25-30hp. But, I'm a sucker for more, and now I have a little less than before, so I probably will lol.
I would not personally tune a 507. Its stock power is very, very close to the max and for the limited gains I wouldn't expect to see a huge difference performance wise.
I would never in a million years tune a Black Series. Don't mess with perfection.
You're right, though. In most cases it does mace the car more responsive and over all more aggressive to drive and that IS a bonus!
Was your dyno done on the same day before and after the tune and using same octane gas? If so those are great gains on the 507.
Is Eurocharged still planning to release a v6 tune or is this not happening?
Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Yes, my dyno runs were done on the same day with the same gas at EC in Houston. The gains are pretty solid for a 507.
I understand EC is going to release a V6 but it's not ready yet.
I haven't had a chance yet to do another dyno to see what, if any, gains were achieved by adding the ROW boxes and AFE filters. Of course, it's apples to oranges as to the above dyno as it was done some time ago and the weather won't be the same, but I've got the original boxes so I'm thinking of having them pop those in and run the dynos back to back comparing the results with the originals and with the ROW boxes.
Last edited by 507OverBiturbo; Jul 7, 2016 at 06:19 PM.
Hi im new here. Your dynos in us. Makes very weard numbers... all car less than 400ftlb
I try to put mine c 63 dynos in here. And how you calculate power wheels to crank???? 20% less??? Our dyno sais 9%. thats why you got huge hp. But that is realistic. Sorry bad english.
Last edited by velic63finland; Jul 10, 2016 at 08:22 AM.
Hi im new here. Your dynos in us. Makes very weard numbers... all car less than 400ftlb
I try to put mine c 63 dynos in here. And how you calculate power wheels to crank???? 20% less??? Our dyno sais 9%. thats why you got huge hp. But that is realistic. Sorry bad english.
Torque: Torque at redline is under 400 ftlb, but MAX torque is always above 400 for our cars (see notes at bottom of graph above: 422.96 ftlb before tune, 436.65 after).
Calculate power wheels to crank: Unless you have the engine removed and on a test stand, power at the wheels is the only thing we can measure. Fortunately, it is also the best measurement for how the car will perform. Calculating power at crank is really just a guess. Losses through the transmission and differential may vary considerably from car to car. Since it's really just a guess, the 'calculated' crank numbers are pretty meaningless.
Ok. This is my stock dyno. And this dyno measure of course first wheel power and torgue. This is 4th gear pull. Because 5th gear hits speed limiter before rpm limiter. Pull 4th gear rpm limiter and immediately gearbox position N and roll speed down. That is necessarily must to do in limiter. We take about 5500-6000rpm and roll down N mode in gearbox. Thats we get 9% losses. And this is engine power and torgue.
The little table at the bottom shows max power at 349.5 KW and engine power at 468.7 KW- I've not calculated, but that's pretty close to 25% estimated drivetrain loss.
But maybe that second number (ENG) is not engine power. The description of both is in HP but the units in the results are both KW, so I've assumed that the second number is engine (crankshaft) power. Converting KW to HP gives a possibly different interpretation - 349.5 KW is exactly 468.7 US HP. . . . so maybe that second number is power in ENGlish units.
If that's at the wheels, that's amazing.
edit - just checked numbers torque in the table at the bottom - Max Torque = 604.7 NM and Eng Torque = 446.0 NM. Converting 604.7 NM to english gives exactly 446.0 ft-lbs. What I thought was 25% drivetrain loss was clearly wrong.
Both HP and Torque are very close to published figures for crank ratings (451 and 443 respectively for US models), so whatever conversion factor they used looks to have been pretty accurate. Do you have any records of the wheel measurements for power and torque?
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all car less than 400ftlb
