M156 UPD Intake Spacer Review
#126
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
How do we not know it's the filter change from a dirty one to a clean one with more flow that didn't make your gains?
Based on that alone, that indeed opens it up to discussion.
That dyno run is not an even swap. You changed the filter. And yes a dirty filter will inhibit airflow.
Did you do a dyno run with the new filter for both? These are legit questions here. I am not being a jerk or anything, just trying to get some answers here.
#127
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
really, you seriously dont....
there is only one way to manipulate the dynojet that has weather station.... you can sit there with a hair dryer/ heat gun and make the weather station read like its 150f in the dyno room to get a awesome correction factor, but its going to be obvious once the temps are posted on the graph
in this situation you can see the temps were posted on the graph and they dont jive with the one sneaky way to manipulate dynojets with weather stations
there is only one way to manipulate the dynojet that has weather station.... you can sit there with a hair dryer/ heat gun and make the weather station read like its 150f in the dyno room to get a awesome correction factor, but its going to be obvious once the temps are posted on the graph
in this situation you can see the temps were posted on the graph and they dont jive with the one sneaky way to manipulate dynojets with weather stations
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 02:31 PM.
#128
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Based on that alone, that indeed opens it up to discussion.
That dyno run is not an even swap. You changed the filter. And yes a dirty filter will inhibit airflow.
Did you do a dyno run with the new filter for both? These are legit questions here. I am not being a jerk or anything, just trying to get some answers here.
That dyno run is not an even swap. You changed the filter. And yes a dirty filter will inhibit airflow.
Did you do a dyno run with the new filter for both? These are legit questions here. I am not being a jerk or anything, just trying to get some answers here.
ok so using your logic, if a dirty filter can pick up 20whp, then surely raising a piece of the filter that obstructions about 20% of the airflow coming into the airbox can do the same (plus a higher flowing filter which we already know is worth about 7 whp of the 20 gain)
#129
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
really, you seriously dont....
there is only one way to manipulate the dynojet that has weather station.... you can sit there with a hair dryer/ heat gun and make the weather station read like its 150f in the dyno room to get a awesome correction factor, but its going to be obvious once the temps are posted on the graph
in this situation you can see the temps were posted on the graph and they dont jive with the one sneaky way to manipulate dynojets with weather stations
there is only one way to manipulate the dynojet that has weather station.... you can sit there with a hair dryer/ heat gun and make the weather station read like its 150f in the dyno room to get a awesome correction factor, but its going to be obvious once the temps are posted on the graph
in this situation you can see the temps were posted on the graph and they dont jive with the one sneaky way to manipulate dynojets with weather stations
Ahhhh, yes you can. I gave you links. Read them please!
#130
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,067
Received 2,849 Likes
on
1,680 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I have a dyno chart from my car too. Explain that.
#131
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
this blockage...... also what do you think would happen if you filled in the rest of the non-blocked space with more blockage? how about you stuff that inlet hole full of play-doh (since people on this forum seem to be fond od it) and go do a few dyno runs and see if obstruction in airflow make a difference or not
#132
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
[RIGHT]
lol you were just talking about big brains and now you are thinking a dirty filter can cause 20 whp difference?
ok so using your logic, if a dirty filter can pick up 20whp, then surely raising a piece of the filter that obstructions about 20% of the airflow coming into the airbox can do the same (plus a higher flowing filter which we already know is worth about 7 whp of the 20 gain)
lol you were just talking about big brains and now you are thinking a dirty filter can cause 20 whp difference?
ok so using your logic, if a dirty filter can pick up 20whp, then surely raising a piece of the filter that obstructions about 20% of the airflow coming into the airbox can do the same (plus a higher flowing filter which we already know is worth about 7 whp of the 20 gain)
A clogged filter can inhibit airflow.
A spacer to create more air doesn't equate. What obstruction are you speaking of?
You do understand that Weistec and others use this same setup on stage 2 and stage 3 systems with over 700hp. Why don't they use a spacer?
Why didn't Mercedes figure this out?
Why don't AMG's race teams use a spacer.
Simple answer here Einstein. BECAUSE IT DON'T WORK YO!
#133
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
this blockage...... also what do you think would happen if you filled in the rest of the non-blocked space with more blockage? how about you stuff that inlet hole full of play-doh (since people on this forum seem to be fond od it) and go do a few dyno runs and see if obstruction in airflow make a difference or not
#135
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
this blockage...... also what do you think would happen if you filled in the rest of the non-blocked space with more blockage? how about you stuff that inlet hole full of play-doh (since people on this forum seem to be fond od it) and go do a few dyno runs and see if obstruction in airflow make a difference or not
#137
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
i guess you dont know differences of superflow vs dynojet? first link you sent is superflow... yes they can have the load manipulated... moot point as we are talking about a dynojet graph (dynojet is an inertia based dyno)
you're second link does not include manipulation of dynojet (because you cant).. it has dyno dynamics, dynapak and mustang dyno in its analysis... hmmm all load bering dynos... go figure
and your 3rd link with dynoing in a different gear is easy to disprove as the dyno graph x axis would be converted to mph to hide the rpm's as when you dyno in a gear thats not close to 1:1 then your max hp will show up in a unsual rpm range as it would be spinning the drum much faster.... obviously this wasnt done because you can clearly see the rpm's in the graph and they are where they should be
there is no way to manipulate dynojet graph unless they leave out temp (which they didnt) or unless they leave out rpm (which they didnt)
mythbuster!
you're second link does not include manipulation of dynojet (because you cant).. it has dyno dynamics, dynapak and mustang dyno in its analysis... hmmm all load bering dynos... go figure
and your 3rd link with dynoing in a different gear is easy to disprove as the dyno graph x axis would be converted to mph to hide the rpm's as when you dyno in a gear thats not close to 1:1 then your max hp will show up in a unsual rpm range as it would be spinning the drum much faster.... obviously this wasnt done because you can clearly see the rpm's in the graph and they are where they should be
there is no way to manipulate dynojet graph unless they leave out temp (which they didnt) or unless they leave out rpm (which they didnt)
mythbuster!
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 03:12 PM.
#138
Super Member
#139
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
i guess you dont know differences of superflow vs dynojet? first link you sent is superflow... yes they can have the load manipulated... moot point as we are talking about a dynojet graph (dynojet is an inertia based dyno)
you're second link does not include manipulation of dynojet (because you cant).. it has dyno dynamics, dynapak and mustang dyno in its analysis... hmmm all load bering dynos... go figure
and your 3rd link with dynoing in a different gear is easy to disprove as the dyno graph x axis would be converted to mph to hide the rpm's as when you dyno in a gear thats not close to 1:1 then your max hp will show up in a unsual rpm range as it would be spinning the drum much faster.... obviously this wasnt done because you can clearly see the rpm's in the graph and they are where they should be
there is no way to manipulate dynojet graph unless they leave out temp (which they didnt) or unless they leave out rpm (which they didnt)
mythbuster!
you're second link does not include manipulation of dynojet (because you cant).. it has dyno dynamics, dynapak and mustang dyno in its analysis... hmmm all load bering dynos... go figure
and your 3rd link with dynoing in a different gear is easy to disprove as the dyno graph x axis would be converted to mph to hide the rpm's as when you dyno in a gear thats not close to 1:1 then your max hp will show up in a unsual rpm range as it would be spinning the drum much faster.... obviously this wasnt done because you can clearly see the rpm's in the graph and they are where they should be
there is no way to manipulate dynojet graph unless they leave out temp (which they didnt) or unless they leave out rpm (which they didnt)
mythbuster!
#140
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
i did buy their spacer/filter kit for my M157 since it was pretty cheap compared to the AMS intake for $4,000 that nets 30 whp or the renntech intake that yeilds 10-15 whp for $5000
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 03:35 PM.
#141
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
A clogged filter can inhibit airflow.
A spacer to create more air doesn't equate. What obstruction are you speaking of?
You do understand that Weistec and others use this same setup on stage 2 and stage 3 systems with over 700hp. Why don't they use a spacer?
Why didn't Mercedes figure this out?
Why don't AMG's race teams use a spacer.
Simple answer here Einstein. BECAUSE IT DON'T WORK YO!
A spacer to create more air doesn't equate. What obstruction are you speaking of?
You do understand that Weistec and others use this same setup on stage 2 and stage 3 systems with over 700hp. Why don't they use a spacer?
Why didn't Mercedes figure this out?
Why don't AMG's race teams use a spacer.
Simple answer here Einstein. BECAUSE IT DON'T WORK YO!
mercedes wasnt shooting for more HP on their C63 than their E63 or S63... same reason they detuned the C63 even though it has same engine as the other 2 more expensive M156 cars... why would they worry about making the airbox better when they were already making the power they wanted to make lol.... i mean while we're at it, why didnt mercedes figure out that a weistec s/c with nitrous would give it more power? because they want c63 to be just below its ~500 hp bigger brother.... hmmm marketing
and race teams? lol really? ok well they dont even use the 6.3L engine in the c63 amg DTM car since DTM regulates 4.0L is the max, so the airbox they use isnt even the same nor are the filters... they are meant for a few hours of driving and then trashed... here's the AMG dtm c-class air intake... hmm doesnt look same as the one our your car... i wonder why? maybe because they need less obstruction to incoming air on a race car
and how many times are you going to ask "what obstruction" when they photo has been posted like 5 times now.... the portion of the filter hanging down in the inlet will have rushing air coming in an hitting it and causing turbulance and restriction..... all the spacer does is move that out of the way and allow air to flow in less distrupted.... since you seem to be down with the "clogging" of air filters concept, then lets call this the "partial clogging" of the intake inlet ... think of it as if that big hole was your colon and the white part of the filter protuding into the hole is a tumor... dont you think it would mess up how easily your doo doo comes out your colon?
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 04:44 PM.
#143
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
the air is meant to come in and flow up in between the air filter gills/slits, it will flow fairly easy in that manner.... the filters are not meant for air to flow through them sideways (they way it would have to though the part hanging down)..... easy test is take your airfilter out and blow on that portion and feel the resistance, then blow air thru them the way its supposed to flow and notice how much easier it is
#144
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,067
Received 2,849 Likes
on
1,680 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Just stop this nonsense. Not supposed to go perpendicular to the grills/slats blah blah blah total complete inanne rubbish-speak.
Have you LOOKED at an air filter lately? The filter element allows air through no matter what direction. It's made that way (corrugated) to increase surface area. That's it.
I'm out of this stupid thread. You guys are retards.
Have you LOOKED at an air filter lately? The filter element allows air through no matter what direction. It's made that way (corrugated) to increase surface area. That's it.
I'm out of this stupid thread. You guys are retards.
#145
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Just stop this nonsense. Not supposed to go perpendicular to the grills/slats blah blah blah total complete inanne rubbish-speak.
Have you LOOKED at an air filter lately? The filter element allows air through no matter what direction. It's made that way (corrugated) to increase surface area. That's it.
I'm out of this stupid thread. You guys are retards.
Have you LOOKED at an air filter lately? The filter element allows air through no matter what direction. It's made that way (corrugated) to increase surface area. That's it.
I'm out of this stupid thread. You guys are retards.
when air particle is going up thru the filter it hits only one small piece of filter.... when it goes in the side of the filter it would be going thru mulitple pieces of material
which path do you think flows better?
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 05:01 PM.
#146
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,067
Received 2,849 Likes
on
1,680 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Yeah radiators and intercoolers are made of METAL genius. In between the slats are METAL barriers. Comeon man, you're just fcking with us now.
Air particles? Just stop. You sound like an idiot. Air will go through the filter just fine anywhere except the rubber surround.
Air particles? Just stop. You sound like an idiot. Air will go through the filter just fine anywhere except the rubber surround.
#147
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Yeah radiators and intercoolers are made of METAL genius. In between the slats are METAL barriers. Comeon man, you're just fcking with us now.
Air particles? Just stop. You sound like an idiot. Air will go through the filter just fine anywhere except the rubber surround.
Air particles? Just stop. You sound like an idiot. Air will go through the filter just fine anywhere except the rubber surround.
you do realize that on a radiator that air does not actually pass through any of the metal right? it just passes around it and moves on and in the process cools the metal and thus the inner fluid.... my radiator example was more to illustrate that its arranged like an air filter, in that it directs the air into the slats as opposed to directing air to bounce of the slats from the side
and you have no scientific understanding if you think air flow does not experience resistance as the medium its passing through becomes thicker
sounds like your pissed cuz you bought a $2000 carbonio intake that gives you same performance gains as this upd kit i mean come on , pot meet kettle
Last edited by gaspam; 08-23-2016 at 05:16 PM.
The following users liked this post:
shardul (08-23-2016)
#148
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,067
Received 2,849 Likes
on
1,680 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I'll let someone else reply to your stupidity, I have better things to do.
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (08-23-2016)
#150
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,067
Received 2,849 Likes
on
1,680 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast