thesaintusa

But won't the filters filter out the dust keeping them from making max power?

I think you should just put the vial of dust beside them during the pull.




In all seriousness curious to see some more dyno pulls.

Diabolis

^ This. This is exactly what happens when you start playing with the air flow. By changing the airbox volume and runner lengths, you can change the resonant frequency of the system and thus the RPMs when the strongest pressure waves arrive at the intake valves... but again, you will neither gain power across the band (you will simply move the peaks from one RPM range to another), nor does the air filter housing have anythign to do with it. This is the freakin' filter housing we're talking about... not the intake. It changes absolutely nothing downstream of the MAFs.

BLKROKT

Doing anything to the air boxes does nothing to affect the "runner length" because it's pre throttle bodies. You could put the filters remote mounted in the bumpers and it will not affect the resonant frequencies or whatever.

wikiwiki

That's what I am thinking...one or two pulls. Pop the covers, quickly get the spacers on and do a couple more pull.

Jasonoff

You know... physics doesn't exist when you're selling gimmicks. Thought that was common knowledge?

Mazspeed

That is an excellent point. Although everything you do to change airflow will either make things better or worse depending on the changes.


Engines are technically air pumps, so air in is air out minus fuel/spark. Putting in a spacer on carbs for high HP use did catch on before mechanical fuel injection came about. We would see higher numbers with that, but again not across the board. But that was fuel/air changes due to the spacers there.


This spacer has no fuel advantage. No spark advantage. I am having a difficult time thinking this can gain a single HP while running a modern fuel injection system. I don't get it.
I can't discount a gain, but a gain without a loss is typically not possible with a simple spacer. Too me this is more of the "Royle Purple" will drop oil temps by 30 degrees and small cans of liquid HP/octane booster to gain another 20-30HP with 1 $29.99 can.


Both of those are 100 percent full of ****. I agree with seeing a forum member with some clout try this out with an independent test. If those gains are possible, sign me up, but I have some major doubts here.

Jasonoff

Sh¡t got technical and shardul peaced out. Weird...

gaspam

did you miss the part where he included a std corrected dyno run too? the correction factor uses temp/humidity/ absolute pressure ... the dynojet weather station records the weather conditions in the dyno area and thus the dyno is corrected/ standardized so weather doesnt matter... thats the whole point of a corrected dyno

Diabolis

Oh, I saw them all right. What I also saw is that if those two are of the same runs, the power differences on the second graph - post-correection - should have been lower, not higher than the first (uncorrected) one due to the drop in ambient temperature. Or did you miss that part?

gaspam

i guess you dont understand how uncorrected and corrected works...the uncorrected runs were done in dyno room that was 84 to 92F.... the correction factor on the corrected graphs corrects that to standard conditions of 60-degrees F, 29.92inHg and 0-percent humidity....

if you dyno in a hot (84 to 92f) room then your corrected numbers are going to be higher because the corrected numbers are going to show what your results would of been if it was 60F

i thought you knew all that cool physics and chemistry that you were dropping on other members in a condescending manner

if you would like to verify yourself its pretty easy, i just did it and the "before" uncorrected 421 whp @92f (using current 65% humidty and 30.05 pressure) would be around 440whp STD corrected... the "after" uncorrected run of 445 @ 84f would be 465 std corrected ..... hmmm that lines up pretty close to uncorrect vs correct graphs posted...

http://www.twincitygaming.us/CF/Default.html

BLKROKT

He's probably sitting back and laughing at all the suckers who bought these stupid spacers off the back of the flurry of positive reviews here. I wonder how much he's kicking back to each 'reviewer'.

Jasonoff

Why are the deltas the same between the corrected and uncorrected charts?

Red = pre spacer at a higher ambient temp.
Blue = post spacer and a lower ambient temp (assuming dynoed first?)

Am I missing something? Wouldn't the red graph have increased more after correction bringing the delta closer together?

gaspam

they arent... delta in gain uncorrected is 1.057 (445/421) and delta corrected is 1.047 (467/446)

and you are correct on the red (higher temp 92f ) delta being higher uncorrected vs corrected (421 vs 446 = 1.059) while the lower temp blue (84f) delta being lower uncorrected vs corrected (445 vs 467 = 1.049)... this is exactly what you would expect from corrected graph... the line with the high temp had a higher % correction

Jasonoff

So less than 1% closer delta after correction for an 8°F delta ambient temp (4% denser air noted earlier).

I'm no expert, hell, I'm not even amateur status, but that math isn't adding up to me.

Did someone misplace a decimal point, or do I need to build another Play-Doh spacer?

gaspam

you do realize that the air density factor in the correction factor equation is to the 1/2 power dont you? so an absolute 4% is really worth 2% in the correction factor formula

you are also assuming air density didnt change when temp changed... humidity/pressure could of changed (moist air is less dense)...

also the air density is not the only component in the std correction factor formula and its not linear so you cant assume X% change in temp or air density = same x% change in correction factor

Jasonoff

I hope you're not getting defensive.

Less than 1% change between uncorrected and corrected for a 2% change in power between ambient temp per run. These are also outside temps from the weather station. Nobody knows what the inside temps were, or intake temps etc...

All anyone can do right now is make assumptions without the data that was requested. The dyno schmenge was quick to add the weather station temps, but not the other stuff that was requested. That's just as weird as that other guy who peaced out...

Either way, it's not looking good for the suggested gains.

skratch77

if these make any power it's from the added volume to the air box.i just made my own spacers for free and took the car for a beat run and so far I feel no difference.

you can all make your own spacers for free.jyst take your dirty old OEM filters and cut the paper out and use the left over to fit it on your pro drys or what ever filters you are using.

there is even enough meat with the stock screws to grab tight and fit using them.

here are some pics and it took me less then 15 min to make and install.

PACougar

gaspam, Thanks for correctly explaining how correction factors and the dyno works! The weather station is plugged directly into the dyno's stack and is inside the shop. The reason the temp changed so much is due to the dyno door being open and living in Texas. Our shop is climate controlled, right up until the door's open. The runs were made less than 30 mins apart in full view of the owner and another customer. I'm not making any claims about how great the spacers/filter are, all I did was provide back to back dyno data for everyone. Please, if you don't believe they work, by all means don't purchase them. The graphs provided are completely unbiased and ran on the very first car we've ever installed the spacers/filters on. After seeing how many of you act, I can certainly understand why many shops don't bother posting data on the forum.

gaspam

you do know the weather station of a dynojet is located inside the dyno room right? its measuring the conditions of the dyno room since that is where you are dynoing

some models, like the dynojet 250i , even have it built into the dyno so you cant move its location

Jasonoff

Nope, I did not know that...

... meant it was a sensor attached to the dynojet computer that records ambient temperatures inside the building relative to where the vehicle is ingesting air.

Appreciate the info, it wasn't obvious to me.

That still doesn't explain the correction vs power variation though. Margin of error possibly?
Thanks for taking the time to record real world data.

What's your take on the unexplained variance? Unless I'm not piecing it together, it looks like your control failed which unfortunately tosses the whole experiment in the trash.

EDIT: Any chance you'd be willing to dyno skratch77's mod the same way? If you're truly out to help the community and can can show a dirt cheap mod can nab us some ponies, you'd be the new forum hero.

PACougar

There's no variance in the data whatsoever. The correction factor is applied by Dynojet's software on the uncorrected data. One of the reasons I overlaid both runs on the same graph is to eliminate any claims of discrepancy. One thing most people don't seem to understand is we have no control over the correction factor, other than choosing which one it uses. Everything is done in the software. If you take the uncorrected data, pulled it up on anyone else's Dynojet and applied a STD correction you'd end up with the exact same corrected graph I posted.

As for skratch77's "mod", I wouldn't exactly call that a reliable modification. If I have a customer that wants to try it, I'd be happy to give it a shot. Regardless of outcome, I wouldn't recommend doing to you car. It doesn't look like the most desirable way to secure your Air Filter.

skratch77

it does exactly what the spacer kit does.it raises the air filters an in and gets rid of the blockage from the front where the air comes in.

roadtalontsi

Also just flip them over and leave the hood open, suck in fresh air from a room full of no restriction just to make a point.

Jasonoff

Maybe you just skimmed the hand full of posts above but there's a large window of error.

Given the temp difference between runs, the delta between the two should have been closer together after correction. So closer to a 5-10hp gain rather than what was stated.

PACougar

Perhaps you should call Dynojet and let them know you've found a flaw in their software.