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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Thanks Mort, I was there earlier today but as you said there is no info on the manufacturing process.
I'm genuinely confused here, and I kinda went off there because any sane person would assume that they were not truly forged wheels at that price. I can't find any other manufacturer of forged monoblock wheels - especially in 19" and 20" - at a price point even remotely close to this, even half. The pricing here is more in-line with cast/flow/rotary-formed wheels. I just don't understand.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
I agree it looks like rotary or flow formed (not forged) pricing to me as well. Hard to figure what else it might be but if it really is full forged it looks like a heck of a deal.
I can't even find any testimonials on google because you search "VS Forged." All that comes up are "cast vs forged" and "rotary forged vs forged" and similar topics. I'd just like to see a set on any car. They look pretty but pretty isn't good enough for wheels.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I'll take that thanks.
No response here? I got one in the other thread but there are still a lot of questions to be answered. Just because it's some sort of tie-up between Stance and Vertini doesn't explain the price point or the manufacturing process. Some of us need to run forged wheels, and are not going to buy something like this without more information, no matter how cheap.
HRE doesn't withhold any information or put up webpages with nothing but pictures and marketing talk. If there was any sort of real effort to explain what's going on here, a sale might be made (because I'm looking for new monoblock track rims), but I guess they're not interested....
And if there were a logical explanation as to how beautiful light strong forged monoblock wheels can be offered at exactly the same price point as inferior cast/rotary/flow-formed wheels, I think you would have people knocking down your door to get these. Who wouldn't take these over a set of Forgestars if they knew more about how they were made, and had confidence in that process? FORGED MONOBLOCK wheels for $600ea? Seriously, help me help you here guys. It's great to have new options and competition, and a lot of us would support a new entrant here if it all made sense. Unfortunately it just does not add up.....
^agreed! At $600 each, if they are truly forged and of high quality, it almost makes sense to get a set when I need new tires. But we all need the info.
I hate ads like this "VS Forged Series | Light Weight Full Forged Construction Wheels for your Mercedes C63"
This appears to be pretty misleading to me. How many times can you have "forged" in the title and the wheel name, without them actually being forged? "Full Forged Construction"? REALLY? At a price on par with cast/rotary/flow-formed wheels? Are you sure they're not just dressed up with the word "forged" in them sixteen times? I find this all hard to believe...... Next you're going to say that the barrels are "heat treated" in the same way as forged wheels, and that's just a total marketing-speak lie and anyone who says that to you with a straight face you should run in the other direction of.
These wheels aren't even TUV-certified, they are JWl VIA certified as far as I can tell with a load rating of 1500# per wheel. I'm sure they look nice and are round and everything, and will do the job of rolling a car from one place to the next, but I can't believe that they are forged.
REAL forged wheels are cut out of a solid piece of billet aluminum. They're the strongest and lightest wheel you can get outside of more exotic magnesium or maybe carbon wheels, and they're expensive.
Tell me these are monoblock forged wheels for under $3k per set and I'll take a dozen sets. Please tell me this is real.
Here's that word again - what does this even mean, "wheel forgings". Are the casts forged, and why does that matter. Some poor fool (who probably doesn't know English well enough) is going to buy these thinking that he got a screaming deal on real forged wheels, only to find out that they're not..... tell me I'm wrong here please. I WANT TO BE WRONG. (and then I'll delete this post and crawl back to my corner)
Even the website is devoid of any real information, just a lot of marketing-speak like this.
I don't have anything against VS or N4S (I bought my FORGED Vorsteiners from them years ago and am happy with them), but this kind of thing really gets me aggravated...
Please someone step in here and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'd love to find the magic fairy that makes REAL FORGED wheels for 33% of the price of anyone else. I'll take 12 sets of those please where do I send my money.
I can see where you're coming from. Why are forged wheels so underpriced? The reason for that is because these are manufactured in Taiwan compared to the traditional wheel that is manufactured in US, Germany or Japan. Labor costs are a lot less and these wheels only come in three different concave faces. With that said the industry is changing now and you'll see a lot more manufactures doing this in the near future. Props to Vertini and Stance! Below I provided you images, hope that it can justify thats these are true forged wheels. How many sets would you like to purchase? Would you like more info?
These VS Forged wheels are made by Vertini Wheels in combination with Stance Wheels. Here is a link but still very little information on the manufacturing process. Scroll down the page to get to VS Forged Series.
^agreed! At $600 each, if they are truly forged and of high quality, it almost makes sense to get a set when I need new tires. But we all need the info.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by Need4Speed
I can see where you're coming from. Why are forged wheels so underpriced? The reason for that is because these are manufactured in Taiwan compared to the traditional wheel that is manufactured in US, Germany or Japan. Labor costs are a lot less and these wheels only come in three different concave faces. With that said the industry is changing now and you'll see a lot more manufactures doing this in the near future. Props to Vertini and Stance! Below I provided you images, hope that it can justify thats these are true forged wheels. How many sets would you like to purchase? Would you like more info?
This is a good start, thanks.
So making these in Taiwan vs Japan/Germany/US results in a wheel that is more than 50% less expensive - is that how much labor there is involved in making a wheel, which I thought was cut by a machine (CNC?)?
Where do the aluminum blanks come from, I assume China at this price, and what quality is the 6061 T6? The load rating I have read for these wheels is very low for a forged wheel at 1500# per, and this is barely sufficient for a heavy car like the C63 when it's track-driven. Do you have any further information on this.
And the concavity is not a big concern for me, but will be for other interested buyers here. When do you think you will have pictures of a C63 fitment available?
Finally, I am having a hard time finding any independent reviews or many buyers of these wheels online. As these wheels have been on the market since late-2014, can you share any positive customer experiences with us?
Thanks for taking the time to help answer these questions. Like I said, if these turn out to be high-quality forged wheels, at this price point they should sell like hotcakes versus cast/flow/rotary-formed alternatives. And once I'm satisfied that my research is done, I'll be first in line to buy them.
So making these in Taiwan vs Japan/Germany/US results in a wheel that is more than 50% less expensive - is that how much labor there is involved in making a wheel, which I thought was cut by a machine (CNC?)?
Where do the aluminum blanks come from, I assume China at this price, and what quality is the 6061 T6? The load rating I have read for these wheels is very low for a forged wheel at 1500# per, and this is barely sufficient for a heavy car like the C63 when it's track-driven. Do you have any further information on this.
And the concavity is not a big concern for me, but will be for other interested buyers here. When do you think you will have pictures of a C63 fitment available?
Finally, I am having a hard time finding any independent reviews or many buyers of these wheels online. As these wheels have been on the market since late-2014, can you share any positive customer experiences with us?
Thanks for taking the time to help answer these questions. Like I said, if these turn out to be high-quality forged wheels, at this price point they should sell like hotcakes versus cast/flow/rotary-formed alternatives. And once I'm satisfied that my research is done, I'll be first in line to buy them.
1. Yes manufacturing in Taiwan does cut labor cost. You can even find forged wheels here now days for around 4k which really isn't half the cost but yes.
2. Wheels load rating is approximately 1500lbs per wheel and your car weights 3,649lbs. We're good on weight for sure. Yes wheels are built with 6061 T6 aluminum blanks.
3. Don't have many independent reviews yet but I do have MB World members that have ordered and should be receiving wheels very soon. Waiting for feedback once they receive the wheels.
4. VS Forged was introduced at SEMA 2014 but was released 2016 August.
Would you like to be one of the first C63's on the forum to receive them?
Last edited by Need4Speed; Mar 3, 2017 at 06:49 PM.
BLKROKT has a great point that I didn't even think of. 1500lbs is a street rated wheel. The track is much more demanding on the wheels. Spoke thickness is also a little thin for a track driven wheel. Let me show you a quick example.
Forgeline has a nice looking forged wheel, the VX1. http://www.forgeline.com/products/on...block/vx1.html
Then they have this one rated for competition use with the same design but with much thicker spokes, yet still forged. http://www.forgeline.com/products/vx1r.html
Even they go to a thicker spoke set for track use. I personally like the looks of your wheels, but are they truly a forged wheel? Any videos of the forging process?
Also there is a big difference in 6061-T6. Is it aircraft quality or is it a lesser billet stock?
Also why is it not TUV certified?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by Mazspeed
BLKROKT has a great point that I didn't even think of. 1500lbs is a street rated wheel. The track is much more demanding on the wheels. Spoke thickness is also a little thin for a track driven wheel. Let me show you a quick example.
Forgeline has a nice looking forged wheel, the VX1. http://www.forgeline.com/products/on...block/vx1.html
Then they have this one rated for competition use with the same design but with much thicker spokes, yet still forged. http://www.forgeline.com/products/vx1r.html
Even they go to a thicker spoke set for track use. I personally like the looks of your wheels, but are they truly a forged wheel? Any videos of the forging process?
Also there is a big difference in 6061-T6. Is it aircraft quality or is it a lesser billet stock?
Also why is it not TUV certified?
In short, 1500# is barely ok for the street maybe (my car weighs over 4000lbs with me in it, although I should be able to get it to ~3800 for the track), but there's zero way I'd track with them on my car. There's not enough safety margin for my liking given the more significant forces we're talking about.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
For example, Forgeline publishes 3 different load capacities for each wheel depending on the treadwear of the tire. One Forgeline wheel I'm referencing here (I'm sure many are rated higher but these are just the stats I found through a quick search) is originally load rated at 2100# on 200TW street tires, however this number reduces by HALF to 1075# once you put competition track tires (TW 0-100) on them. That's a pretty good rule of thumb to use for wheels to be track-driven, maybe a little conservative, where safety is paramount. Keep in mind the additional forces that come from having high-adhesion track tires in suspension compression in cornering, elevation changes, and braking from very high speeds. I can easily believe that having a 2x cushion in load rating for track driving is more than appropriate.
This is a note from the President of Forgeline explaining their reasoning:
"All of our load ratings on our wheels are based on cornering or side loads, not radial or straight line loads. The SAE formula for computing load ratings uses a coefficient of friction of 0.7. Most of todays sticky tires, especially R compound tires have a coefficient of friction over 1.0. Due to the fact that a lot of our customers like to run their wheels on the track (road racing not drag racing), we needed to develop a load rating scale that more accurately represented the actual g-loads in a cornering situation. Drag racing does not apply the same kind of forces. If you look at a Weld or probably any other drag wheel, they don’t have load ratings on them at all. All in all, if you are not road racing the car on a road course the heavier load on our decal is accurate."
To figure out what a wheels STATIC load capacity needs to be, look on the drivers side door jamb, find the highest gross axle weight rating or GAWR, and divide that number by how many wheels are on that axle (2). (https://www.performanceplustire.com/...r-wheels-safe/)
The GAWR for my car is 2403F and 2469R. Divide each number by 2 and you get 1202 and 1235 respectively. So these VS Forged wheels are just "ok" for the street if I don't drive like a maniac.
The problem is when you have R-compound tires on, for track driving, and the load capacity gets cut in half. For these VS Forged wheels that number goes to 750lbs. - about 500# less than the minimum required.
That's totally dangerous and anything but "fine". Again, as the consumer here and potential buyer, why do I have to do all the math to figure this out. Why am I being told "good on weight", after I explicitly stated exactly how they would be used, when it is clearly not?
This is what I'm talking about - the wheel experts should know all this and not just be trying to make a sale.
Would you like to be one of the first C63's on the forum to receive them?
Am in the market for a set off wheels for my 2014 C63 sedan. If you can do me a excellent deal on a set off the VS Forged VS01's in 19" delivered too the UK, I would happily like the chance too be one off the first C63's on the forum too use these wheels and give my feedback on them.
For example, Forgeline publishes 3 different load capacities for each wheel depending on the treadwear of the tire. One Forgeline wheel I'm referencing here (I'm sure many are rated higher but these are just the stats I found through a quick search) is originally load rated at 2100# on street tires, however this number reduces by HALF once you put competition track tires (TW 0-100) on them. That's a pretty good rule of thumb to use for wheels to be track-driven, where safety is paramount.
To figure out what a wheels load capacity needs to be, look on the drivers side door jamb, find the highest gross axle weight rating or GAWR, and divide that number by how many tires are on that axle (2).
The GAWR for my car is 2403F and 2469R. Divide each number by 2 and you get 1202 and 1235 respectively. So they're "ok" for the street. The problem is when you have track tires on, and the load capacity gets cut in half. For these VS Forged wheels that number goes to 750lbs. - about 500# less than the minimum required.
That's totally dangerous and anything but "fine". Again, as the consumer here and potential buyer, why do I have to do all the math to figure this out. Why am I being told "good on weight", after I explicitly stated exactly how they would be used, when it is clearly not? This is what I'm talking about - the wheel experts should know all this and not just be trying to make a sale.
When I read something like this I don't think I'd be happy using these wheels on a car like a C63. Thanks for doing the maths. Think I'll keep saving a few more penny's and get some HRE's or Vorsteiner wheels.
Great info Jim on that photo of Forgeline's sticker on their rim. Yeah that makes a HUGE difference. I need to get new wheels since I am running the Trofeo's on my unforged wheels right now.
I knew it was a difference in using a softer tire but I didn't know it was that great. Thanks for that. I HAVE to run a true forged race wheel if I want to continue using that tire.
Massive thanks for the info Jim. This should be a sticky on the top of the forum.
Thank you everyone for your feedbacks and inputs. If you're tracking your car and running a lot of power I could understand your concern on load rating. VS Forged wheels are not for everyone, but the question was if its true forged? YES, YES, YES, YES AND YES ONE LAST TIME.
I love all your concerns and don't blame you since this is a new wheel and you guys don't have much feedback. We have a few MB World members already placing pre orders and you'll soon get feedback.
Keep in mind these days cast wheels cost up to 3k. For what you're getting for the the money, worth every penny. Trust!!! Wouldn't want to put any product on the forum that I wouldn't put on my own vehicle.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Yeah sorry to clog your thread with that. Seem like fine wheels, just not for track use.
I appreciate your comments and agree with you that these seem like a great alternative for those looking at cast/rotary/flow-formed wheels. Almost a no-brainer.
Yeah sorry to clog your thread with that. Seem like fine wheels, just not for track use.
I appreciate your comments and agree with you that these seem like a great alternative for those looking at cast/rotary/flow-formed wheels. Almost a no-brainer.
GLWS
Yea brotha! No worries, I love all the action and insight that I'm getting from all you enthusiasts.
You guys really know your cars and thats what its all about.
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