Procharged C63 Project
08-15-2016, 05:44 AM
#51
Senior Member
Hmmmmm...
Having conceived, designed, prototyped, redesigned, verified, calibrated, tested, validated, productionised, released, and supported a supercharger for this (& many other) platforms... I think I am reasonably qualified to say "Good Luck".
Unless you have the infrastructure of an existing manufacturing facility, the only way a project of this magnitude is viable is if you consider it a hobby & you are willing to donate your vehicle and apply no value to your time.
There have been many incorrect statements made in thread above - some critical to the project's success - and some assumptions made that will be challenging, but I encourage the development and look forward to the result.
:
:
Having conceived, designed, prototyped, redesigned, verified, calibrated, tested, validated, productionised, released, and supported a supercharger for this (& many other) platforms... I think I am reasonably qualified to say "Good Luck".
Unless you have the infrastructure of an existing manufacturing facility, the only way a project of this magnitude is viable is if you consider it a hobby & you are willing to donate your vehicle and apply no value to your time.
There have been many incorrect statements made in thread above - some critical to the project's success - and some assumptions made that will be challenging, but I encourage the development and look forward to the result.
:
:
08-15-2016, 09:47 AM
#52
Member
The natural tendency of a bigger displacement motor is to not rev as high. Regardless of when the supercharger is capable of. As I said before which you must have missed is that the procharger is good for higher RPM play if the engine is capable of it. The 6.2 Merc motor is not a high RPM motor. The link I gave of the NA motor reflects this, which is why I posed it. And it shows no gains to 7500 rpm like you said.
You either don't understand any of this or you're not reading any of this. And how is the procharger going to change the natural RPM limit of the stock motor? Typically when you boost a motor, your limit comes down anyways, even if you take the same motor and made it a 5.5. Boosted motors typically don't rev as high as a NA motor does. So how will the pro charger make it a higher RPM motor? This I have to hear.
You either don't understand any of this or you're not reading any of this. And how is the procharger going to change the natural RPM limit of the stock motor? Typically when you boost a motor, your limit comes down anyways, even if you take the same motor and made it a 5.5. Boosted motors typically don't rev as high as a NA motor does. So how will the pro charger make it a higher RPM motor? This I have to hear.
A centrical blower provides more air as RPM increases, so the power will not tapper off it will continue to climb with the rpm as boost will continue to climb. As someone else as already stated you can down size the pulley to make up for RPM if that was an issue though its' not.
I'm not sure why you seem to think the amount of RPM the c63 has is out of range to use a blower. espically with as popular as prochargers are in the domestic community now. mopoar, chevy and even ford cars all have numeriour blower kits built and perform very well with them.
A procharger will always out run a twin crew or roots blower up top do to it's design. it also means less heat. YOu can do as you please. but I can speak from experience with prochargers,at they drastically change how a car makes power and when it stops.
08-15-2016, 01:05 PM
#53
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
Here is what you are missing in your assumption. Most na motors run out of breath which is what restricts their ablity to conitue to make power with higher RPM.
Yes and no. It all depends on what the motor is designed to do. An NA motor that runs down low will not have the higher RPM capability and vise versa.
A centrical blower provides more air as RPM increases, so the power will not tapper off it will continue to climb with the rpm as boost will continue to climb. As someone else as already stated you can down size the pulley to make up for RPM if that was an issue though its' not.
Yes this is true, but if you get the system to work at a higher rpm range, when the engine is designed as more of a down low engine, you're working against the strength of the engine design. Also if you design the procharger for a higher RPM motor, you lose out on boost in the lower RPM range when that's the natural ability of the 6.2 motor.
I'm not sure why you seem to think the amount of RPM the c63 has is out of range to use a blower. espically with as popular as prochargers are in the domestic community now. mopoar, chevy and even ford cars all have numeriour blower kits built and perform very well with them.
I never came close to saying that the c63's engine is out of range to use a blower. I just don't think the procharger is the best supercharger for this application. Look at Ken's post above.
A procharger will always out run a twin crew or roots blower up top do to it's design. it also means less heat. YOu can do as you please. but I can speak from experience with prochargers,at they drastically change how a car makes power and when it stops.
A procharger has more and will make more power, yes. Absolutely true
Yes and no. It all depends on what the motor is designed to do. An NA motor that runs down low will not have the higher RPM capability and vise versa.
A centrical blower provides more air as RPM increases, so the power will not tapper off it will continue to climb with the rpm as boost will continue to climb. As someone else as already stated you can down size the pulley to make up for RPM if that was an issue though its' not.
Yes this is true, but if you get the system to work at a higher rpm range, when the engine is designed as more of a down low engine, you're working against the strength of the engine design. Also if you design the procharger for a higher RPM motor, you lose out on boost in the lower RPM range when that's the natural ability of the 6.2 motor.
I'm not sure why you seem to think the amount of RPM the c63 has is out of range to use a blower. espically with as popular as prochargers are in the domestic community now. mopoar, chevy and even ford cars all have numeriour blower kits built and perform very well with them.
I never came close to saying that the c63's engine is out of range to use a blower. I just don't think the procharger is the best supercharger for this application. Look at Ken's post above.
A procharger will always out run a twin crew or roots blower up top do to it's design. it also means less heat. YOu can do as you please. but I can speak from experience with prochargers,at they drastically change how a car makes power and when it stops.
A procharger has more and will make more power, yes. Absolutely true
But for packaging, size, and for mating what the twin screw does for this engine, it's a better overall system for the C63 for the power output the customer is looking for.
08-15-2016, 01:08 PM
#54
Super Member
I'm too lazy to dig around the Internet for the answer, but the supercharger that Magnuson is using, is it a twin screw Lysholm type blower or is it a roots type? Or even a roots type with higher helix? I'd take the twin screw every time, it's much more efficient which results in less power to turn it and less heating of the inlet air.
08-15-2016, 01:22 PM
#55
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Los Gatos Ca
Posts: 954
Received 205 Likes
on
146 Posts
C63 amg Custom 67 Camaro GLK 350 4matic 2017 AMG GTS
I'm too lazy to dig around the Internet for the answer, but the supercharger that Magnuson is using, is it a twin screw Lysholm type blower or is it a roots type? Or even a roots type with higher helix? I'd take the twin screw every time, it's much more efficient which results in less power to turn it and less heating of the inlet air.
08-15-2016, 02:17 PM
#56
Super Member
08-16-2016, 03:12 AM
#57
Senior Member
Having designed systems with the Lysholm twin-screw (we were the Southern Hemisphere distributor) and with the Eaton TVS, I can state with absolute certainty that up to ~15psi the TVS is more efficient than the Lysholm twin-screw in every measurable way.
08-16-2016, 11:30 AM
#58
Member
Yes and no. It all depends on what the motor is designed to do. An NA motor that runs down low will not have the higher RPM capability and vise versa.
Yes this is true, but if you get the system to work at a higher rpm range, when the engine is designed as more of a down low engine, you're working against the strength of the engine design. Also if you design the procharger for a higher RPM motor, you lose out on boost in the lower RPM range when that's the natural ability of the 6.2 motor.
you now have a motor that works down low and up top with a centrifcal. that's not a bad thing, a c63 already has more issue putting the power it makes na down out the whole. Spinning aint winning plain and simple. On motor a c63 makes more then enough to do work. but yet in any race I've been including road course my c63 on homestead I never saw below 5k rpm so what the car does down there is irrelevant because out side of running off the line you will never see that low of a rpm period. and after the 1st shift even then you still will never see that rpm below 5k.
same as my m3 that makes no power below 5k rpm. it's fine because I've see any rpm below that anyone during a race.
08-16-2016, 12:47 PM
#59
Super Member
EDIT: My bad, the above is true for a normal roots blower, but the Eaton TVS blower is a different animal with 4 lobes and a higher helix angle that gets rid of most of the exit losses. I found a good paper that had the flow maps of both the TVS and the Lysholm and my apologies, the TVS is better below 16 psi. OK, if I decide to supercharge my C63, I'm definitely going with Magnuson!!!!
Last edited by glennhl; 08-16-2016 at 12:57 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Southways (08-18-2016)
08-16-2016, 01:12 PM
#60
MBWorld Fanatic!
EDIT: My bad, the above is true for a normal roots blower, but the Eaton TVS blower is a different animal with 4 lobes and a higher helix angle that gets rid of most of the exit losses. I found a good paper that had the flow maps of both the TVS and the Lysholm and my apologies, the TVS is better below 16 psi. OK, if I decide to supercharge my C63, I'm definitely going with Magnuson!!!!
The following users liked this post:
Southways (08-18-2016)
05-10-2019, 05:56 AM
#64
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,060
Received 2,836 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Too much lag
05-11-2019, 12:05 AM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 4,686
Received 543 Likes
on
479 Posts
2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
Y'all are making this too hard. Just buy a [5.5] kompressor and adapt it to fit the 63 for a third of the price.
*Boom 80whp pre-extra mods*
*Boom 80whp pre-extra mods*
05-11-2019, 12:48 PM
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,060
Received 2,836 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
What is that just a supercharger? How is that relevant to the discussion.
05-11-2019, 12:49 PM
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,060
Received 2,836 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
For the record, this is exactly the weak point found with turbocharging. The IM blows apart.
05-12-2019, 09:19 AM
#70
Junior Member
05-12-2019, 11:09 AM
#71
Senior Member
Subscribed, want to see how this turns out. I just went for a ride in a friends C7 with the Procharger full built, and it is insane. I wonder if the german V8 will handle all the extra power.
Best of luck, OP.
Best of luck, OP.
05-12-2019, 05:25 PM
#72
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,060
Received 2,836 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
05-13-2019, 06:27 PM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,060
Received 2,836 Likes
on
1,674 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
HMS supercharger (made by Kleemann)
Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-13-2019 at 07:24 PM.
