Ugly-Nugget

If I was home I would take some pictures if that's what would please you. I did not pay 5500$ for my headers, I got in on one of the specials they had and I would have to check on exact cost. (I believe it was around 3600$).


I am not saying the nicer welds would be worth XXXX$ to everyone. I also said if the F1 headers function and fit correctly the buyers will be happy. All I am saying is certain things make a difference to different buyers, how much you spend on something like headers is up to you but there is a difference in quality standards, this goes for the welds and materials. Lets not forget about the labour costs.


To each there own, I see the pictures and I can tell the welds on those headers are not as nice and the ones on my MBH headers are very well done. The extra 1500$ is personal choice to what is worth it to the individual.


Like I said I collect watches and I can tell you there is a huge difference in quality between a real Rolex and even a very good knock off, is the price difference worth it to everyone NO, but to me it is worth getting the best product for my money. This is all inclusive for the materials being used as well as the quality of the fit and finish of the final product.


If you are down with the F1 headers go for it I am sure they will work and perform the way you need them to. But don't tell me you don't know the difference in the finish of the final product.

Ambystom01

Prove it, prove there is an objective, quantifiable difference.

Ugly-Nugget

Like I said I cant prove it at this time, I am away on business and not able to take pictures for you but whether the extra cost for a nicer finish product is what you want it is a decision that has to made by each individual.


If function is your primary concern these will probable work for you but I am a whole package kind of guy and I will pay little more for fit and finish.

Ambystom01

How do you quantify prettier welds? Do the prettier welds make more power?

What you call a little more is almost double the price.

Ugly-Nugget

i don't have to quantify it. The MBH headers are tig welded which is a stringer weld and more time consuming to weld as well as a better looking weld.

The weld on those F1 headers look like they are done by mig, not a bad weld just not as strong and they don't look as good. As far as welding goes ugly weld are not always a fault but it can be an indication of a weak weld with lack in Penetration.

The stainless steel used in china is also not as good.

I think the the point is being missed about the function of the headers, will they both perform the same YES, but this wouldn't be the first time a debate would be had about paying more for a better product with better finishing.

skratch77

IDK these welds look good enough for me!

Ugly-Nugget

the type of weld used to weld can speak to its strength so on a header where the is a lot of heating and cooling a lower quality weld and or a bad weld could crack. This could cause issues for repair and longevity.

So so if a company is using a higher quality of stainless steel and a welding process that is stronger and takes longer to weld then I wouldn't expect the price to be the same.

Ugly-Nugget

If they look good enough for you great you found your new headers.

Ambystom01

What you mean is you can't quantify it. You have no proof that these headers underperform your precious MBH headers. All you can resort to is complaining that the welds on a part you'll never see once they're installed aren't pretty enough for you and you're willing to **** away another $2000 for pretty welds so you can **** in the punch bowl.

skratch77

You are bad mouthing fi without any proof of there welds being sub par.

They have a good rep on other headers and this guy was selling renntech headers that cracked and needed to be welded.

There is also a guy on here that put these on his black series and no issues so far.

There are 8 of use about to run these and time will tell how they hold up but please stop putting them down without any proof of there welds not being strong.

You do know this company makes parts for lambos right? If there were sub par the internet would know about it.

Ugly-Nugget

I am not bad mouthing F1, there is a quality difference you either choose to pay for or you don't. Either way you want to go is a fine with me. But saying that they are the same with no justification for the extra price is bad mouthing MBH by the same argument.

As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.

skratch77

Tell me how these look to you.this is on a guys 507 from another forum. Zoom in on the welds!

Ugly-Nugget

And look at these welds. This is why I called them ugly welds.

Ambystom01

You no proof of a quality difference. You're playing a vanity game.

Why are you even here? Like I said, you're the guy that's pissing the punch bowl for no real reason.

Ugly-Nugget

Your right these ones look much better, hardly seems like the same company produced them.

Ugly-Nugget

Hey if you have to go you have to go, the punch bowl was the closest.

MBH motorsports

What c63 system cost $5500?


Sorry if defending our rights and product is upsetting to you.

Thing is you should care. I have repaired so many Mercedes headers of the years from weld failure. Some of these headers from over seas that claim 304 stainless are more like 409 or some other low grade stainless. As well as paper thin 18-20 gauge wall thickness on the tubing. Not back purged with argon, fuse welded, and with poor weld penetration. Even weld porosity.
So when you think you are getting MBH performance from a headers that mimics our look. I can assure you that you are not.
Our systems use American made 304, 16 gauge, stainless steel Each header is purged welded for the best weld uniformity and shielding on the inside of the tubing. Using a $20K Miller Dynasty 700 TIG welder.

I get it that people what cheap stuff, but good craftmanship and good material is not cheap. Skilled workers demand a premium for their work as well as take pride in the things they make. Same as High grade USA made stainless steel.
When we first came out with headers for Mercedes our price was cheaper than most other company's as the years have passed our cost have risen but our price is just about the same. We are making less, and still bringing the best available exhaust parts for the Mercedes. We never intended to compete with over seas made stuff. My motto has always been "if I wouldn't put it on my car who would I want to sell to you to put on your car?" Still true to this day.

At the end of the day its your money. If spending a little more for the best available parts is your thing than MBH is for you. Or if you are into buying knock offs than you do that.

I will also say this. I've hired a law firm and we are going to see to it that these headers are removed from the market. The mean the 2nd hand market too.

Ambystom01

You've threatened lawyers multiple times in this thread. Each time a lawsuit is days away, yet nothing happens.

If you have proof these headers underperform, post it up.

skratch77

I just assumed your setup was north of 4k since I've seen them sell used for 3500.

How much is your setup shipped with all the hardware to bolt it up anyway.we always need to pm for price and it's like a huge secret how much they cost.its almost like everyone gets a different price .
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Kriston

Not going to lie, the welds on the FI LTH's look pretty fugly.

The welds on the AP headers are much cleaner FYI. However, for MBH to come on here and straight out say its a copy of their design etc. It justifies the lower price for the FI headers. Your getting MBH design (confirmed by Mr. MBH himself) with crappier welds. Autotalent isn't hiding the welds its full disclosure. Hence the cheaper price.

In terms of failure rates, a lot of us have been on these forums long enough to know not many if any owners have complained about failing welds on ANY LTH brand.

Guys ALL of these headers make roughly the same power, the MBH makes a few HP more, but when your almost at 600 HP to the crank 5-10 HP not going to be a huge factor for a street car.

Ambystom01

And for the price of MBH headers you can get FI headers plus ROW airboxes plus a tune.

JonM

Honestly, I'm just tired of MBH always whining on here. I would've bought their headers had there been a shred of professionalism from that company. Threatening lawsuits publicly is just pathetic, in my opinion. Handle it behind closed doors and retain your dignity.

In reality, the people so interested in the FI header would never have purchased the MBH in the first place - pricing is the determining factor. They all do the same thing, why not get it 40% cheaper?

skratch77

​​​​​like I said these look good enough for me and time will tell if they hold up.

Kriston

Ok

I am happy you are happy that's all that matters.

skratch77

Can you tell us what is wrong with those welds? I'm not a welder so can you explain to us what makes them bad