W204 C63 FI Headers. End of the year $2190 shipped special!
#151
Member
If I was home I would take some pictures if that's what would please you. I did not pay 5500$ for my headers, I got in on one of the specials they had and I would have to check on exact cost. (I believe it was around 3600$).
I am not saying the nicer welds would be worth XXXX$ to everyone. I also said if the F1 headers function and fit correctly the buyers will be happy. All I am saying is certain things make a difference to different buyers, how much you spend on something like headers is up to you but there is a difference in quality standards, this goes for the welds and materials. Lets not forget about the labour costs.
To each there own, I see the pictures and I can tell the welds on those headers are not as nice and the ones on my MBH headers are very well done. The extra 1500$ is personal choice to what is worth it to the individual.
Like I said I collect watches and I can tell you there is a huge difference in quality between a real Rolex and even a very good knock off, is the price difference worth it to everyone NO, but to me it is worth getting the best product for my money. This is all inclusive for the materials being used as well as the quality of the fit and finish of the final product.
If you are down with the F1 headers go for it I am sure they will work and perform the way you need them to. But don't tell me you don't know the difference in the finish of the final product.
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C63fora2w1 (06-13-2017)
#153
Member
Like I said I cant prove it at this time, I am away on business and not able to take pictures for you but whether the extra cost for a nicer finish product is what you want it is a decision that has to made by each individual.
If function is your primary concern these will probable work for you but I am a whole package kind of guy and I will pay little more for fit and finish.
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C63fora2w1 (06-13-2017)
#155
Member
The weld on those F1 headers look like they are done by mig, not a bad weld just not as strong and they don't look as good. As far as welding goes ugly weld are not always a fault but it can be an indication of a weak weld with lack in Penetration.
The stainless steel used in china is also not as good.
I think the the point is being missed about the function of the headers, will they both perform the same YES, but this wouldn't be the first time a debate would be had about paying more for a better product with better finishing.
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C63fora2w1 (06-13-2017)
#157
Member
the type of weld used to weld can speak to its strength so on a header where the is a lot of heating and cooling a lower quality weld and or a bad weld could crack. This could cause issues for repair and longevity.
So so if a company is using a higher quality of stainless steel and a welding process that is stronger and takes longer to weld then I wouldn't expect the price to be the same.
So so if a company is using a higher quality of stainless steel and a welding process that is stronger and takes longer to weld then I wouldn't expect the price to be the same.
#159
i don't have to quantify it. The MBH headers are tig welded which is a stringer weld and more time consuming to weld as well as a better looking weld.
The weld on those F1 headers look like they are done by mig, not a bad weld just not as strong and they don't look as good. As far as welding goes ugly weld are not always a fault but it can be an indication of a weak weld with lack in Penetration.
The stainless steel used in china is also not as good.
I think the the point is being missed about the function of the headers, will they both perform the same YES, but this wouldn't be the first time a debate would be had about paying more for a better product with better finishing.
The weld on those F1 headers look like they are done by mig, not a bad weld just not as strong and they don't look as good. As far as welding goes ugly weld are not always a fault but it can be an indication of a weak weld with lack in Penetration.
The stainless steel used in china is also not as good.
I think the the point is being missed about the function of the headers, will they both perform the same YES, but this wouldn't be the first time a debate would be had about paying more for a better product with better finishing.
#160
MBWorld Fanatic!
the type of weld used to weld can speak to its strength so on a header where the is a lot of heating and cooling a lower quality weld and or a bad weld could crack. This could cause issues for repair and longevity.
So so if a company is using a higher quality of stainless steel and a welding process that is stronger and takes longer to weld then I wouldn't expect the price to be the same.
So so if a company is using a higher quality of stainless steel and a welding process that is stronger and takes longer to weld then I wouldn't expect the price to be the same.
They have a good rep on other headers and this guy was selling renntech headers that cracked and needed to be welded.
There is also a guy on here that put these on his black series and no issues so far.
There are 8 of use about to run these and time will tell how they hold up but please stop putting them down without any proof of there welds not being strong.
You do know this company makes parts for lambos right? If there were sub par the internet would know about it.
#161
Member
I am not bad mouthing F1, there is a quality difference you either choose to pay for or you don't. Either way you want to go is a fine with me. But saying that they are the same with no justification for the extra price is bad mouthing MBH by the same argument.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
#162
MBWorld Fanatic!
I am not bad mouthing F1, there is a quality difference you either choose to pay for or you don't. Either way you want to go is a fine with me. But saying that they are the same with no justification for the extra price is bad mouthing MBH by the same argument.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
#163
Member
#164
I am not bad mouthing F1, there is a quality difference you either choose to pay for or you don't. Either way you want to go is a fine with me. But saying that they are the same with no justification for the extra price is bad mouthing MBH by the same argument.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
As as I have said they will both perform the same no doubt but the extra cost is obvious whether you choose to see it or not.
Why are you even here? Like I said, you're the guy that's pissing the punch bowl for no real reason.
#165
Member
#166
Member
#167
Former Vendor of MBWorld
I was interested in MBH headers. Their conduct on this forum have ensured that I will not be a customer.
People make the same argument about seemingly any product. If FI/Agency Power/IPE headers actually fail, then there's an issue. If some welds aren't jerkoff perfect, I don't care.
People make the same argument about seemingly any product. If FI/Agency Power/IPE headers actually fail, then there's an issue. If some welds aren't jerkoff perfect, I don't care.
Thing is you should care. I have repaired so many Mercedes headers of the years from weld failure. Some of these headers from over seas that claim 304 stainless are more like 409 or some other low grade stainless. As well as paper thin 18-20 gauge wall thickness on the tubing. Not back purged with argon, fuse welded, and with poor weld penetration. Even weld porosity.
So when you think you are getting MBH performance from a headers that mimics our look. I can assure you that you are not.
Our systems use American made 304, 16 gauge, stainless steel Each header is purged welded for the best weld uniformity and shielding on the inside of the tubing. Using a $20K Miller Dynasty 700 TIG welder.
I get it that people what cheap stuff, but good craftmanship and good material is not cheap. Skilled workers demand a premium for their work as well as take pride in the things they make. Same as High grade USA made stainless steel.
When we first came out with headers for Mercedes our price was cheaper than most other company's as the years have passed our cost have risen but our price is just about the same. We are making less, and still bringing the best available exhaust parts for the Mercedes. We never intended to compete with over seas made stuff. My motto has always been "if I wouldn't put it on my car who would I want to sell to you to put on your car?" Still true to this day.
At the end of the day its your money. If spending a little more for the best available parts is your thing than MBH is for you. Or if you are into buying knock offs than you do that.
I will also say this. I've hired a law firm and we are going to see to it that these headers are removed from the market. The mean the 2nd hand market too.
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C63fora2w1 (06-13-2017)
#169
MBWorld Fanatic!
I just assumed your setup was north of 4k since I've seen them sell used for 3500.
How much is your setup shipped with all the hardware to bolt it up anyway.we always need to pm for price and it's like a huge secret how much they cost.its almost like everyone gets a different price .
How much is your setup shipped with all the hardware to bolt it up anyway.we always need to pm for price and it's like a huge secret how much they cost.its almost like everyone gets a different price .
#170
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not going to lie, the welds on the FI LTH's look pretty fugly.
The welds on the AP headers are much cleaner FYI. However, for MBH to come on here and straight out say its a copy of their design etc. It justifies the lower price for the FI headers. Your getting MBH design (confirmed by Mr. MBH himself) with crappier welds. Autotalent isn't hiding the welds its full disclosure. Hence the cheaper price.
In terms of failure rates, a lot of us have been on these forums long enough to know not many if any owners have complained about failing welds on ANY LTH brand.
Guys ALL of these headers make roughly the same power, the MBH makes a few HP more, but when your almost at 600 HP to the crank 5-10 HP not going to be a huge factor for a street car.
The welds on the AP headers are much cleaner FYI. However, for MBH to come on here and straight out say its a copy of their design etc. It justifies the lower price for the FI headers. Your getting MBH design (confirmed by Mr. MBH himself) with crappier welds. Autotalent isn't hiding the welds its full disclosure. Hence the cheaper price.
In terms of failure rates, a lot of us have been on these forums long enough to know not many if any owners have complained about failing welds on ANY LTH brand.
Guys ALL of these headers make roughly the same power, the MBH makes a few HP more, but when your almost at 600 HP to the crank 5-10 HP not going to be a huge factor for a street car.
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C63fora2w1 (07-04-2017)
#172
Honestly, I'm just tired of MBH always whining on here. I would've bought their headers had there been a shred of professionalism from that company. Threatening lawsuits publicly is just pathetic, in my opinion. Handle it behind closed doors and retain your dignity.
In reality, the people so interested in the FI header would never have purchased the MBH in the first place - pricing is the determining factor. They all do the same thing, why not get it 40% cheaper?
In reality, the people so interested in the FI header would never have purchased the MBH in the first place - pricing is the determining factor. They all do the same thing, why not get it 40% cheaper?
#173
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not going to lie, the welds on the FI LTH's look pretty fugly.
The welds on the AP headers are much cleaner FYI. However, for MBH to come on here and straight out say its a copy of their design etc. It justifies the lower price for the FI headers. Your getting MBH design (confirmed by Mr. MBH himself) with crappier welds. Autotalent isn't hiding the welds its full disclosure. Hence the cheaper price.
In terms of failure rates, a lot of us have been on these forums long enough to know not many if any owners have complained about failing welds on ANY LTH brand.
Guys ALL of these headers make roughly the same power, the MBH makes a few HP more, but when your almost at 600 HP to the crank 5-10 HP not going to be a huge factor for a street car.
The welds on the AP headers are much cleaner FYI. However, for MBH to come on here and straight out say its a copy of their design etc. It justifies the lower price for the FI headers. Your getting MBH design (confirmed by Mr. MBH himself) with crappier welds. Autotalent isn't hiding the welds its full disclosure. Hence the cheaper price.
In terms of failure rates, a lot of us have been on these forums long enough to know not many if any owners have complained about failing welds on ANY LTH brand.
Guys ALL of these headers make roughly the same power, the MBH makes a few HP more, but when your almost at 600 HP to the crank 5-10 HP not going to be a huge factor for a street car.
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Kriston (06-12-2017)
#174
MBWorld Fanatic!
#175
MBWorld Fanatic!