Intake manifold differences
10-02-2021, 07:15 PM
#27
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The dark grey one was fitted to the Performance Pack motors ie the motors with the bhp increase, lightened SLS conrods. Purely cosmetic. At some point - possibly when the redesigned head bolts came into use - the valve covers started to appear in black rather than silver.
10-02-2021, 08:49 PM
#28
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10-03-2021, 12:50 AM
#29
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'13 C63 AMG P31
BoomerZman reminds me of those old commercials..."Come on down to Joes Big Lots, big weekend sales, you can't beat our prices! / We got fridges, sinks, washers, tubs, kitchens, chairs...you name it, we got it! / Joes Big Lots, right off I-55 and 7th st, right across from the old deli!"
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10-03-2021, 09:31 AM
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BoomerZman reminds me of those old commercials..."Come on down to Joes Big Lots, big weekend sales, you can't beat our prices! / We got fridges, sinks, washers, tubs, kitchens, chairs...you name it, we got it! / Joes Big Lots, right off I-55 and 7th st, right across from the old deli!"
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10-03-2021, 10:56 AM
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10-04-2021, 09:59 AM
#32
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2013 Mercedes C63 AMG
10-04-2021, 12:42 PM
#33
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If you search this forum you will see that’s not the case. Or at least it wasn’t the case on the two cars that were used as comparison. Tune/Software is/was the same on standard and P31. The P31 shows a difference in power around 6,000 RPM. I’m guessing the extra top end is coming from the lighter rotation assembly.
10-05-2021, 10:41 AM
#34
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
P31 cars make slightly more power with everything else being identical. Whether it’s the potentially lighter internals or magic, they just do.
BS cars make slightly more than P31 cars with everything else being identical. Due to the unique baffles in the BS-specific engine block.
BS cars make slightly more than P31 cars with everything else being identical. Due to the unique baffles in the BS-specific engine block.
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10-11-2022, 03:40 PM
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Take that with a small grain of salt as the P31/507 differences that were in the marketing literature have been shown to not all be true. So until someone puts actual eyes on it, it’s “to be verified”.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 10-11-2022 at 03:42 PM.
10-11-2022, 03:50 PM
#39
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Well, I do believe that I have Mr. Tasos's phone number handy so I'll ask the expert. I know that he did some in hand comparisons for weight/etc. on the 156/159 parts in some of his earlier videos.
10-13-2022, 04:07 AM
#40
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I don´t want to be that guy, but i´ll just be him. 
You would never want any more pressure in the crankcase then there already is, you always want to lower it.
This to make less air resistance inside and make the pistonrings to seal better, especially on high rpm´s above peak torque(cylinderpressure is less above)
This is why drysumpsystems offer a slight powergain due to the superior negative pressure in the crankcase compared to wetsump systems.
So it sounds like somebody has that mixed up really good
You would never want any more pressure in the crankcase then there already is, you always want to lower it.
This to make less air resistance inside and make the pistonrings to seal better, especially on high rpm´s above peak torque(cylinderpressure is less above)
This is why drysumpsystems offer a slight powergain due to the superior negative pressure in the crankcase compared to wetsump systems.
So it sounds like somebody has that mixed up really good
10-13-2022, 09:04 AM
#41
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12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 22 X3M Brooklyn Grey, 08 BMW E93, 22 Ducati Desert Sled, John Deere 3R
I found this in some info from 10 years ago but no idea of the validity of the source
The crankcase is different in the c63 black series in that it doesn't have the vent holes between cylinders, whereas the P31/non P31 block does.
The crankcase is different in the c63 black series in that it doesn't have the vent holes between cylinders, whereas the P31/non P31 block does.
10-13-2022, 11:56 AM
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I don´t want to be that guy, but i´ll just be him.
You would never want any more pressure in the crankcase then there already is, you always want to lower it.
This to make less air resistance inside and make the pistonrings to seal better, especially on high rpm´s above peak torque(cylinderpressure is less above)
This is why drysumpsystems offer a slight powergain due to the superior negative pressure in the crankcase compared to wetsump systems.
So it sounds like somebody has that mixed up really good
You would never want any more pressure in the crankcase then there already is, you always want to lower it.
This to make less air resistance inside and make the pistonrings to seal better, especially on high rpm´s above peak torque(cylinderpressure is less above)
This is why drysumpsystems offer a slight powergain due to the superior negative pressure in the crankcase compared to wetsump systems.
So it sounds like somebody has that mixed up really good
10-13-2022, 06:31 PM
#43
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12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 22 X3M Brooklyn Grey, 08 BMW E93, 22 Ducati Desert Sled, John Deere 3R
Endowed with a raucous 6.2-liter V-8 fortified with forged internals from the SLS AMG, the Black Series fires out through its quad exhaust pipes a very deep and mechanical blaatt to the tune of 510 bhp and 457 lb.-ft. of torque. What separates this engine from the AMG Development Package equipped V-8 of the regular C63, among other things, is a redesigned crankcase that omits the vent holes between cylinders, significantly reducing piston ring friction and freeing up nearly 27 bhp.
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10-13-2022, 09:52 PM
#44
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The baffles likely keep hydraulic pressure where it’s critical not air pressure. Correct idea swedepat just applied it incorrectly.
10-14-2022, 03:09 AM
#45
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The only place you´ve got pressure in fluids is in oil gallery and in watercooling.
Or are you talking about negative pressure in the same terms as positive pressure?
I would say those baffels are for more superior control of oildrain.
You never want oil to be splooshing around in the crankcase as it is hard for the crank and rods to 'cut through' that
(creates pumplosses due to very very dense 'air')
Take for an example a race engine like chevy bigblock, you can let some of the suctionstages on the drysump pump suck oil in the heads, this to not having oil pour down inside the block as the crank will grab that and make a more dense oil/air mixture.
Modern engines are equipped with cast in channels to guide oil down into the pan.
10-14-2022, 08:02 AM
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What hydraulic pressure?
The only place you´ve got pressure in fluids is in oil gallery and in watercooling.
Or are you talking about negative pressure in the same terms as positive pressure?
I would say those baffels are for more superior control of oildrain.
You never want oil to be splooshing around in the crankcase as it is hard for the crank and rods to 'cut through' that
(creates pumplosses due to very very dense 'air')
Take for an example a race engine like chevy bigblock, you can let some of the suctionstages on the drysump pump suck oil in the heads, this to not having oil pour down inside the block as the crank will grab that and make a more dense oil/air mixture.
Modern engines are equipped with cast in channels to guide oil down into the pan.
The only place you´ve got pressure in fluids is in oil gallery and in watercooling.
Or are you talking about negative pressure in the same terms as positive pressure?
I would say those baffels are for more superior control of oildrain.
You never want oil to be splooshing around in the crankcase as it is hard for the crank and rods to 'cut through' that
(creates pumplosses due to very very dense 'air')
Take for an example a race engine like chevy bigblock, you can let some of the suctionstages on the drysump pump suck oil in the heads, this to not having oil pour down inside the block as the crank will grab that and make a more dense oil/air mixture.
Modern engines are equipped with cast in channels to guide oil down into the pan.
10-14-2022, 10:18 AM
#48
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Oh wow. You should totally send this explanation to AMG. I’m sure they’ll be so thankful to be corrected after all these years because you know better than they do what the baffles are for, having never even seen them, or tested them, or designed them, yourself. I’m sure they’ll be so relieved with your discovery.
Yes you are correct about one thing, i haven´t seen them, but i know how to build an engine with low pumpinglosses and for superior oilcontrol(you might never believe me, but i once 'worked' at autoverdi who makes dryspump pumps for race engines, i redesigned the internals for more effective flow in the suctionstages.(www.autoverdi.com)
I dunno about you? as you pull the 'whataboutism' card in this matter.
But an easy one again: What hydraulic pressure?
You got two pressurized fluids in an engine, oil and water.
More?
Having positive pressure in the crankcase is easy to control, just unscrew oilcap but leave it there loose.
If it is bouncing on idle you got a lot of blowby which pressurizes the crankcase, if it is sucked down you got negative pressure and engine is in good order, both rings and seals are good.
The uprated internal baffeling could also be an improvement(and probably is the reason) for hard cornering to make sure there isn´t any oil starvation, more oil control.
You are so far off with the statement 'push the pistons back on the upstroke' that it makes me think you mixed up the words or someone else made a bad translation, and has become a forumtruth among people who doesn´t understand an engine fully.
Here! i made a google for those who wants to learn something:
Importance of crankpressure
Back in 2001 when i was at the company Autoverdi, The following year Joe gibbs racing won their first Nascar win in 2002, this due to the far more superior abilty of the scavenging the engine, it produced more power(more vacuum in the engine) .
I remember back in 2001 there was a lot of pumps going over the pond(atlantic ocean) for testing by Joe Gibbs.
My design rendered a huge order after testing.
The engine as i remember during testing gave 22hp more with the Autoverdi pump then closest pump competitor.
So think again when you try to put me down, maybe you instead could make use of me?
Last edited by swedepat; 10-14-2022 at 10:30 AM.
10-14-2022, 10:23 AM
#49
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The Merc AMG F1 team is hiring. --> https://careers.mercedesamgf1.com/
Apply to HPP and see what happens...
Apply to HPP and see what happens...
Ability to use cnc machines...
https://www.hitachienergy.com/news/p...-new-york-city
10-14-2022, 11:00 AM
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Listen dude, I’m not putting you down or trying to use you. I know you have valuable things to say even if I think you have an irritating way of doing so.
I’m trying to say that you’re barking up the wrong tree. Mercedes AMG has already told us what the baffles are for. I’m not looking for any more information or conspiracy theories on it because the people who designed and built the block already told us.
Go tell them your theories. I just don’t care.
