FlexFuel for Everyone! Eurocharged ATX E85 Kits NOW AVAILABLE :)
 

Howdy all! Dave here from Eurocharged ATX!

I just wanted to take a few minutes to give everyone a quick rundown on our kit... what it includes, what it does, how you install it, etc. This will also serve as a place to ask and get answers for any questions you have about it.

First thing is to let y'all know that we have done extensive materials testing, vehicle testing, dyno testing, and real-world road testing on the system, it's components, and monitored how it does in several test cars over the past 8 months or so. TENS of thousands of miles, hundreds of dyno pulls, oil analysis, fuel mileage calculations etc. We feel very strongly that the system is in top form for the M156 and ready to be set free! It will allow you to make WAYYYY more power, for WAYYYY less money than you have before...

Lets talk about the kit... This is a Plug-N-Play system. Zero cutting or splicing of factory wiring harness is required. It will come with factory fuel injectors that have been ported and flow matched to 550cc. This requires that the rail be removed and injectors replaced (I will also need your stock injectors back - but don't worry, shipping is on me, just throw em' back in the box and stick on the label I provide to get your core money back.)

Once you have replaced your injectors, re-installed the rail and run the harness (it plugs in using factory connectors at each injector), remove your factory fuel line and replace it with the fuel line I provide with the Ethanol sensor installed. After that's done, find a suitable place for the controller (it's engine bay safe/waterproof), finish running the harness, and plug it it. last thing to do is hook up the ground. There will be a single eyelet to secure under the ground lug on the shock tower. Just like that, you're done. Always be careful with fuel, but besides that, its a walk in the park and should take no longer than an hour and a half. I can install a complete kit in about 30-45 minutes.

Why even do it? Because you are leaving loads or power on the table and wasting the full potential of your car by not using it. The system is 100% flex... this means that you can run ANY mixture of E85, 93/91, E98, Ignite Racing Ethanol, at any time...with NO changes to the tune, and NO check engine lights. On a 2012 C63, we made 477whp on: Tune, ROW, Drop-Ins, Flex System (70%). With headers and some extra changes to the tune, that same car makes 525whp/500wtq (also took the top spot on DragTimes) at 477 it trapped 119.9 mph, and the tracks have been closed for the winter... so no testing at the new power level. We also have a W211 E63 (with 134k miles on it) making 500whp (also on Dragtimes) on the system. Basically you're gonna pick up 25+ whp and tq. you never have to buy race gas or octane booster again. Ethanol burns cooler than gasoline, so engine and oil temps will drop dramatically (especially during track duty, or spirited drives). Tons of knock resistance built in to ethanol... its extremely hard to detonate on it. All around great fuel.

So what does it cost? For the launch, the kit is $1,600 shipped ($1,950 will be charged, due to the core), with injectors to the lower 48. Out of the USA? It's $50 for shipping. There is also a $350 core charge for the injectors, but again, shipping is on us. Just put your stocks back in the box, seal it up and I'll refund you as soon as I see them back here! Feel free to call up Adam at the shop for info or to order :) 512-777-2799

Who is ready to take it to the next level?!?:zoom:

This is NOT a "flame" tune... Just the power of the corn:y



Thanks for looking!

So $1600 shipped and then $350 back for a net of $1250?

Sorry for the confusion. You'll pay $1,950, and get $350 back (if you send the injectors back). So cost is $1,600

Thanks!

Thanks for the clarification. $1250 was easier to swallow for my daily driver 😜

Thats what she said!

Is the DD stock?

It's right in there with the least expensive HP/$ you can get for this platform :naughty:

I have to say , I love Eurocharged tunes man . This is very interesting

How is the gas mileage when running e85?

Can you post pics of how you have it installed in the C63? Basically engine bay pics of how you mounted stuff. Thanks

Gas Mileage
 

Good question - and it depends on how much ethanol percentage there is... lets just use 70% as an average - you'll prolly see a couple MPG drop, "IF" your driving habits stay the same... but as we ALL KNOW... once you get more power - you may have a tendency to use it more often. On the few test cars, we have seen lower MPG, but it doesn't translate into more fuel cost, because E85 is much cheaper than 93/91.

Thanks!

I'm actually working on an install video at the moment. I can tell you that nothing needs to be removed, the foam insulators stay in place, etc. Once I have that up, I'll let you know! I will say the the controller is small (about 3"x4"x1"), and the harness is very attractive (in all the kits that are shipping there are no loose/exposed wires). Besides that it's just the ethanol sensor itself that you can see.

Thanks

Ok This looks great just a few questions.
1. Can you run the normal v6 tune for headers and run e85
2. What type of gain can be seen from that?
3. You said you made tweaks to the tune was this a custom dyno tune?
4. You guys offer an e85 v6 tune with headers correct? I'm assuming that's different then the tweaked tune your talking about.
5. The dyno charts where those just different pulls on same setup or was it diff tunes?
6. If I have an ethanol specific tune from you guys and there are variations in the actual content of e85 does the system account for that?
7. If I put 93 octane in the tank in a pinch and I don't have my flash loader to change from the e85 tune to 93 tune what will happen. It adjusts or detonation?

No, just running V6 tune with eurocharged XPipe. If I was in the position to buy headers too, I see that would make the biggest difference with this kit. The Mercedes tax on headers is ridiculous so that won't be happening

I'm gonna go through the questions in the same order you asked:

1. Yes, Absolutely! You can run the regular V.6 tune with headers and E85 :) If you watched videos that is exactly what this car is running... not even an E85 tune.

2. You should be over 500whp, every car is a little different. Dyno's can also vary... but 25+ whp is safe for me to say, as we have observed it on multiple M156 cars already.

3. Without getting into the details of new tune development, we were just making some minor timing changes to see how it would react... we have a pretty good "sweet spot" nailed down for that, an it's worth a little bit more power (5-10whp)

4. The tune for E85 will essentially be the "tweaked tune" for the most part. For your specific application we recommend getting on a dyno and having Jerry dial it in. The you will have a turn key tune for your car and you'll never need (or want) to buy race gas again :) I can buy a 5 gallon pail of VP X98 (98% Ethanol) for about $40-45... how much are you spending on MS109 or Import ;) ?

5. Dyno charts posted were the same exact car/hit/tune/everything. the only change was the correction factor. One was Uncorrected and the other was on Standard correction. Sometimes people are funny about dyno stuff, so I also took pictures with my phone, and included the DA for the folks in the room who care about that sort of thing.

6. The system adjusts fueling at the microsecond level based on the fuel that is entering the rail. So yes, any mix, any %... it will all be accounted for and adjusted.

7. My first thought on this one would be to think ahead, and don't get into that situation... but basically it would be the same as being on a tune for MS109 and having to fill up with 93... the great thing is that the system will account for the delivery to maintain the targeted AFR, so don't romp on it. same as you would want to do if you were on an MS109 tune.

Thanks for the questions!

This car made 477whp on the following mods - Eurocharged V.6, ROW Airboxes, FlexKit (on about 70-75%). The great thing like you said is that cars with headers make more... and that's exactly it... the more power you have, the more you will get!! One of our E55's with the kit on it picked up more than 60whp... and is now out of fuel line at 604whp/658wtq!


Hope this helps!

What if I all ready have 550 injectors? What's the price breakdown then?

I'm curious about your setup? Why did you go to the 550cc? Wanna give me the rundown on your mods?

Thanks

pm'd

Didn't get a PM... Send again?

What are the stock injector cc's? Any issues with modifying the stock injectors long term?

Stock injectors flow at 450cc :)

Good question!

Good stuff Dave! I've ran e85 on all my vehicles and luv it. i don't like the gas mileage though. I have a question for warranty purposes. Lets say i have the flex fuel kit and need to take the car in for warranty work for some reason. If i flash it back to stock would it throw any CEL for the ported injector?

Good question - we have run a stock tune on the 550cc cars, and had no issues. So I don't expect that you would have any issues either :) ECU has been able to adapt the PW to the larger size and run well.

Thanks!

Great stuff but I know aluminum parts corrode. How does the seal and filter react to the ethanol?

Hi,

I just installed MBH headers, midpipe, xpipe and was planning on purchasing your EC v5 tune. How does that pare up with this kit?(NVM here, saw your previous post)

Also, can you please PM me on the details for the v5 tune? Do I just order your generic tune, or how does that work? I'm sure the altitude affects it.

sorry to go off topic

This kit also fits E55k?

It is known that RAW aluminium does react with Ethanol, but only Ethanol with significant water content... keep in mind that your fuel tank system is a SEALED system... and your check engine light would be on with a leak anywhere as small as about .015" (a hole with about the thickness of a playing card). So if you are using tanks of fuel and not having it sit for months, you will not be giving the fuel an opportunity to absorb any water. if you keep opened containers of Ethanol lying around to fill up with, you may run into a corrosion issue. That being said, with today's materials being made Ethanol safe, and even the W204 vehicles that have been FULL FlexFuel, you be be confident that your fuel system will be OK. Now if you were going to let it sit for say, 3 or more months? I'd run the tank out, and fill it with some fresh 93/91 and fuel stabilizer.

Good question!

There IS a kit in the works for the M113k engines, we are making 604whp/658wtq on stock blower, heads, cams, no nitrous, and 70% Ethanol etc. There are some extra requirements for these cars however, so there isn't a kit available yet... but I have Fuel Tank Lids in the works, new fuel line info, fuel pressure regulator info, pump stuff, etc... we will keep you posted!

Great question and thanks a lot!

subbed to see where this goes. Loved corn with my turbos, just not sure how it works with NA vehicles...

Every engine is a little different, but if you're into power, this is for you... 25+ whp is there for the taking on the M156... the more power you have - the more power you will pick up!

Subbed
 

This sounds promising. :)

And next the M157!

So just to confirm with this kit i can run E85 and then switch it up with 91 octane or a mixture of it at any time on the fly without messing with changing tunes or maps?

That is 100% correct :)

Good Question!

How long is the launch pricing offered for?

I'll just say for the first 15 systems sold :y

FedEx man came by today and picked up 3 already this morning, and sent one to Hong Kong as well... so if that gives you any idea ;)

Thanks!

If you want to keep your stock injectors you just don't get the 350 core back correct?

That is correct :)

Thanks!

Im deff interested, just need to find out how I can get my hands on E85 and if my
Mechanic can do the install

:popcorn:

Stop making me want to spend money! :nonono:

When I get back home next week I will check on the availability of e85 in my area. I would hate to get this an not be able to use it.

This is definitely an exciting time for the M156 C63. I used to run E85 in my Evo and loved the extra power from the corn juice. The dowsnside are the more frequent trips to the pump, and having to bring jugs of E85 to the track that doesn't have an E85 pump close by.
If I was out of warranty, I'd be all over this deal!

If he can take off the airbox, he can do the install :) I will be posting a video shortly of how it all goes.

Get the GasBuddy app:)

Thanks a lot!

So easy to take off the car! You never have to worry about warranty... prolly take it off in about an hour... injectors are stock bodies too!

It's like being able to bring a FULL TANK of race gas to the track! Honestly - it's easier on the engine - much cooler burning, and makes loads of power... I know you're already a believer :y

Nothing to loose :)

GasBuddy app! It's like pure gold!

You'll love it so much!

I see you're from the UK - what's the Ethanol/E85 availability situation over there? But honestly... It's like this - if any of y'all run race gas... MS109, VP Import, etc... you're spending boatloads on the precious 5 gallon pails of it... Ethanol is far cheaper, with all the benefits and MORE!

Cheers!

I am in Lemoore, CA and am just happy they have a Chevron station with top tier gas. I don't know if we have any e85 in the area. I have to check. I'm not going to get a flex fuel system if we don't have any e85 :nix:

Edit: nevermind. I see what this is. The nearest e85 station is over a half hour away from my house. Go get gas, drive home, and then have enough gas to make it to the gas station. Sucks for me I guess. I won't be getting this kit any time soon sadly

Just checked gas buddy and spoke to my mechanic. He highly recommends it and he is able to do the install but all the gas stations are far from me. At least a 20 minute drive and in places I never pass. How long is this offer available for?

Hi Mate Johnnie in the Land Down under I'm keen we have this fuel 2 mins from my House ! will this be good ...my car has evolve-technik ECU tune , I am getting DPE headers and then a custom tune. so i jsut wanted to confirm that if i tune the car on (e85) 107 (the V8 supercar fuel) and then run 98 if i am in regional areas i have no issues and that the ECU will adapt itself. thanks mate

How long until you release something for weistec stage 3 charged cars?

20 minutes isn't that bad ;) - worth it for the #gainzzzz!! Remember you can run ANY mix, ANY time, so even if you just want it for the weekends - fill up with E and it's like getting an instant boost! We haven't even talked about the smell... Ethanol smells heavenly!

The launch pricing will we good for the first 15 sold - so I can't put a time on it - by I might guess for another week or two?

Johnnie - That's exactly correct, what you described is exactly how we hope people will use the system :)

Thanks for the Question!

You can always buy drums or 5 gallon pails from VP and mix it yourself!:naughty:

If you EVER run MS109/Import, making the switch to ethanol is a no-brainier... system will pay for itself within 10 pails of MS109 - :y Then you will literally be saving money by running race fuel from the pump!

Thanks :)

As much as I'd like to have the extra power, e85 is not as prevelant in CA as it was in VA. And using my car for long freeway commutes means that range is more important than power most of the time. Now that i say that, GTRs and modded F8x M3/4s will be everywhere and beat up on me on the freeways. Haha. My car is already overkill with the 30 mph speed limits everywhere in my town.

Thanks, that was one of my biggest concern. I ran E85 on my big turbo evo for years without an issue but this is a completely different platform. Will definitely consider this once I seen more results on other M156 cars.

Move to South Florida we have e85 gas stations all over, there is literally one 3 mins away from me. Some has even tested as high as E90

I hear that! I'm originally from CA as well, I lived closer to Sacramento/Folsom area... but I respect the pickle you're in.

That's AWESOME!:y

We are working on the design and manufacture of fuel system components for that application... the stock fuel line is only able to support at the most 600whp on ethanol (safely) so we are working on a drop on fuel lid solution for it!

Great question and thanks for asking!

I wish. Then it would be sunny and I could have all my guns. Sadly we don't have any F-18s in South Florida. So I am stuck for at least 2 more years until I can try and get back to VA

Sucks that E85 is so hard to come by here in Toronto.

Excellent work!
Looking forward to you next release - something to support >700rwhp.

Get in touch with your local VP rep and get a group of guys together and buy in bulk!

Take my money!

I believe the TB plates in our IM are aluminum. Will E85 vapours corrode them?

Couple examples, potentially isolated incidents, but I'm concerned it may have been due to using high ethanol content fuel.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ttle-body.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-urgently.html

Call me at the shop!! I'll send one out tomorrow :)

512-777-2799

This. Is. F. Great.

In Brazil we have cheap cheap cheap ethanol. Every corner. Not sure our mix is the E85 thought.. I know people from Chevy and Ford been doing this for a while now. There's a pal here that owns a '12 Shelby GT500 heavily modded and he runs on Ethanol...

Thinking you'd get over 500whp with bone stock and lightly modded is indeed a very interesting option. Sub'd. Wanna see what's the fuzz all about.

why do you think that? Didn't see anything in those post alluding to that

Lots of aluminum exists in these engines, and for being a tech for over 12 years in dealerships at the Master Level, and a Team Leader/Diagnostic Lead, I can tell you that M156 intake manifold failures, true failures are very few and far between... during my time - most, were due to the wiring harness causing abrasion, as you can see clearly in the photo... the channel that is damaged is where the wiring harness is routed. Ethanol has absolutely nothing to do with it. Please don't post recklessly without any backing... E85 Vapors will NOT corrode them :)

Please see the picture from a internal document (one of many that I have), which shows the issue from MB Engineering and TAC.

Thanks

You need it! Brazil is the PERFECT place!!!

I have modified fuel lines (dual 1/2inch) and 2 X walbro 460lph Intank pumps. Fuel rail has also been modified. Once the system is compatible for s3 weistec cars please let us know. Thank you.

Nothing really came of the reported incidents and anything I've seen looked like corrosion so I was curious. How would an aluminum plate, that's pretty much protected from the elements, corrode? Since ethanol vapours and aluminum don't mix it was just a thought.

Thanks for the info.

It was just a simple question based on observation of pictures I've seen, not a "reckless" post. If those isolated incidents were caused by a poor design (headbolts cough cough) then I wouldn't be surprised.

With that out of the way. Would you recommend this being something to check as a preventative maintenance measure?

We'll shoot! You're ready to go then - what injectors do you have in the car? Shot you a PM with my #, I wanna chat a little more about the car.

Pm sent

seems that my kit's on the way :)

let's see what would happen to my car.

Yes sir!! You'll have it shortly!

Hi, I have same set up. Could you please PM me the information.

Thanxs

PM sent, Sir!

If I wasn't selling my AMG I would be buying this ASAP.

Not sure if my E63 is worthy for this stuff, but I'm genuinely intrigued by it as a general power adder for my other car.

Am I correct in thinking that running this stuff would effectively be like running Aquamist/water injection on a turbo car? Ie, higher knock suppression and allows for more advanced timing? I was half-considering using AEM water injection on my N/A 2zz on 14.5:1 static compression, but this stuff sounds so much better!

Would you guys be open to providing systems (or do it yourself kits) for other marques?

Bummer!!

I'm sure you'll be back ;)

We are currently developing systems for other marques - I will send you a PM and we can discuss :)

Thanks!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0ff07b07de.jpg
Got the kit before lunch today. 2 hours later it was completely installed. Notes from the install.... first time messing with the fuel rail on my car. I started with the highest connection on the hose going to the fuel rail and let the pressure vent of from there. Not sure why but about a few minutes after I had thought I had depressurized a the fuel rail and was disconnecting the electrical connections on the injectors I had a gasoline geyser shoot out of the fuel rail! Not sure where that pressure was hiding or what trigger its release but definitely shocking. I found it easier to just cut the zip ties on all the electrical connections on the fuel rail and re-zip tie it than just try to get them to disconnect. The electrical harness is made so only that all the connections can just barely reach the fuel injector so that helps from getting it mixed up. I layed it out over the whole engine just to map out beforehand to see what goes where. Still gotta find a better place for the controlled. i have it strapped on top of the Y on the intake for the moment until I figure out a better spot to mount it.
When it came time the start the car took a little longer than normal to start, probably from filling up the fuel rail again. Rough idle, check engine light... I gave it a few light revs to hear the imbalance in the idle, shut it down and checked for leaks. Found no leaks so I started it again and she fired up like normal. Closed the hood, gave her a roll around the block and everything seemed normal so I put in 6 gallons of E85 to top of the tank and she's still running great. Probably going to have to spring for a dyno sometime soon.
Overall, it was pretty similar to installing a Power Commander on a motorcycle, just on a gigantic engine instead.

What does the butt dyno say?

First thought after I filled up was that the gas peddle felt stiffer for no reason that made sense to me. Downshifts had a quicker, more aggressive bark. I wasn't anywhere that I could hammer it and it was around a 50/50 E85/91 mix but the car seemed to enjoy what was going on. Getting on the freeway tonight so we'll see what a few WOT on the butt dyno feels like.

nice let us know how it feels. I remember in my older cars pulling the relay for the fuel pump and cranking the car to bleed the fuel rail down before working on it. Not sure if that's a possibility on this car. Maybe Dave can chime in on that.

Howdy!

Honestly to bleed the rail I just use a couple rags around/under the rail inlet connection and crack it loose let the pressure out and then let it drain for a couple seconds.

Alternatively - connect a pressure gauge to the test port and bleed from there.

Just be very cautious as you are dealing with fuel :y

Damn, nice to see somebody using it so soon!
Engine bay pics please of any hardware (if it's not just injectors)

I'm guessing you've already got the V6 tune to take advantage of this stuff, right?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the WOT report :zoom:

Eita, tem mais Brazuca aqui!!

Was that the E85 station on Brookhurst? That is where I would always fill up my GTI as it has both E85 and 91 in a row! Very curious to hear your results, I am leaning heavily towards it very soon and Im also in Huntington.

My goal was to get to about 525 whp without forced induction and E85 seems like a much better option than a 75 shot of nitrous haha.

That was the G&M station on Goldenwest and Edinger. Conveniently its within a block of my house. Pretty happy with the kit so far and its a buck cheaper than 91. Hopefully I'll get to run a full tank of E85 this weekend and hammer it.

how has the 50/50 mix been. Feel any gains from just that?

DavesMeanE's - What have been your findings with regards to ratio?

My previous cars were both recommended to run 30:70 for E85:91 by the tuners.

Is there a point of diminishing returns? I could certainly feel more power on the GTI when I would run 40:60 but I would also get CELs from it.

It's in the first post. All e85. Or even e98. Or any combo. Could even be e66.33...repeating, of course.

I did see he mentioned it COULD run on any combo, but he also stated they did significant testing. I assume after this testing they noted a sweet spot, but hey, maybe not. This may also be changed by other variables such as tune or other mods, just looking for more insight from their testing.

On N/A cars - about 80% and it doesnt make any more power.

F/I cars, as much as you can get :)

Thanks!

Not trying to start a fight but you are dead wrong.
Vince

Oooooh SNAP. It's on like Donkey Kong now......

:popcorn:

How so?

I am not going to play this game with you guys.

cool good talk

I'm sure there are variances - I'd say it's a pretty good gauge based on the testing and observation we have done - you're welcomed to use any blend % you'd like, as is everyone else. On every car we've tested this rule of thumb holds true and is a very good staring point.

Thanks!

Okay, I'll bite.
You are saying that E80 has no advantage as a fuel but E85 is magic juice?
Vince

Some people just like to be silly on the interwebs... doesn't phase me :)

I think there may have simply been a misunderstanding.

First off - "E85" is a trade name for those who didn't know, and it can vary in actual ethanol content from about 51% to 83%, sometimes more, but that's the approx range you'll find at the pump.

What is was saying it that in N/A cars, we have seen very good gains up to 80% Ethanol content, and not too much more after that.

For forced induction (F/I) cars, we have used all the way up to Ignite E98 (98% ethanol content) and still picked up power all the way to that point.

Hope that clears things up!

Thanks!

wow 😂 Please google e85. Pump e85 can be as low as 51 percent ethanol at various pumps not 85 percent it varies pump to pump you must have never looked at one says it right on there

I apologize profusely! I totally misread your post.:bow:
Here in CA E85 is spot on 85 15. We don't even bother testing it anymore.
We use it in NA Miata engines with Tec3r engine management and it can make incredible power with nutso lead.
Sorry again for my comprehension of what you said.
Vince

No worries! I figured it was something like that. So when are we gonna get your S63 on the corn?!?!

Thanks a lot!

Dave

************OK - FAIR WARNING!***************

I fix cars, I'm no actor, and have limited video skills. The kit is simple, so I made a simple install video. Don't be too hard on me please ;) I tried my best to be thorough and informative. As always, if you have follow-up questions, I'm happy to field them!

It's about 10 minutes long.

https://youtu.be/TiUqmwvDu_o

When you make me a kit that is that easy.. I would be on that!

I do make a kit that is that easy ;)

Thanks!


what mods are on the S63?

Smoke side markers with orange LED!
2011 S63
Vince

Not even a tune?

Makes it even easier! Tune and E85 will get you into longtube headers territory (power wise)

AND you car will be flex! You may also check with your Tax person, because there are TAX CREDITS available for converting your vehicle to run on an alternative fuel

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/state

Thanks!

Dave, forgive my ignorance, but won't it be needed a bigger fuel pump, as the injectors are "bigger" ?

Thanks.

It will have to be tested with blower cars - but I generally recommend installing a higher capacity fuel system if you have a supercharger and want to run Ethanol on the M156. Many folks I have talked to already have made the changes including, pumps, lines, and external filter/regulator.

I am working on a solution for the C63 currently, but the priority at the moment is the E55 fuel tank lids.

I will keep you all posted as I progress on that project.

Thanks!

Dave

Few questions for you....
So people with stage 3 blower want it - stock fuel line sizing is too small for them on ethanol i get that. What about stage 2 people? Im putting down 53Xwhp/wtq zone, so Am i a candidate for this? I know my timing is very octane limited. Obviously Id much rather have a way bigger over kill system than be pushing the limits of an undersized or barely up to par system, and who knows maybe some day step up to the big boy blower.

Another question - by altering the injector pw after the m.e. has determined the engine's torque output via can to the transmission - which is actually incorrect at this point as it isnt aware of the difference in power output from the e85- isnt this going to cause weird shifting problems and premature wear on transmissions? (youre the tester just curious on results thus far, i suppose on an n/a car the output difference of say 10-15% isnt really enough to be an issue, on a boosted car a quite a different story)

To add to that I can tell you first hand if your car is equipped with the mct transmission rated for 1000nm youre good to go. If you have the old school torque converter style transmission rated for 700nm and run a tune and headers etc... and e85 you will actually break into the 500whp+ club (dont believe the pump gas lies) - your transmission will be on burrowed time and life will be reduced drastically depending on your driving style. I realize my blown stage 2 car makes alot more low end torque than an n/a e85'd car will, but my transmission is starting to slip once again. first go around lasted about 18-20kmi, and even with the upgraded valve body after the first rebuild it's looking like its time again with another 20k mi on the clock, so just a heads up for you guys. I will add my wife really drives the **** out it. haha.

whats the deal with the e55 lids? they are plastic and all get replaced under that fuel system campaign ;P .

Will there be any other alterations or programming changes offered with this kit? For instance by changing the injector sizing alone should ultimately require a re-tune to adjust the dead times and flow ratings at different pressures/voltages? Id also much rather throw in some id725-850's or hell maybe even 1000/1050x's. Any thoughts on just offering the adapter kit separately without injectors?

Yes, this video is/woulda been helpful if it hadn't been for my enthusiasm/desire to live dangerously for mods. Somehow I have the ground on the opposite shock tower.

nice vid, but what about the injector install?

It doesn't make a difference - its symmetrical so you can fit the harness either way :)

Po**a cara! Finalmente um brasileiro aqui!
Haha
Vai converter sua w204 pro álcool também?? Abraços!

I can do that :)

Thanks!

how many of these kits are still available at the launch price?

kkkkkkk é nois fi!! Vei, a grana no momento ta curta pq acabamos de comprar uma casa e aos pouco pondo os moveis... ja tem uma puta lista de coisa q quero comprar antes do tune, mas um dia compro saporra! E tu? Vai nessa?

So! We have had bad luck getting injectors back, which is fine - I guess we just didn't expect so many people to want to keep their stock Is. This is fine, butt will change the structure of how we sell the kits :)

If you have Longtubes (and need injectors) we can supply new Bosch injectors, or we can put you in touch with the company. As stated before, WE ARE NOT looking to make money on the injectors, so know you will be getting the best possible price :)

Please PM me on here, or call the shop at 512-777-2799 to discuss options and pricing :)

Thanks a lot!

Dave

I'm a newbie to all this, do 1 step colder plugs have any effect on combustion or results with E85?

What other mods do you have? Why did you decide to go a step colder on the plugs?

We haven't ever tested on an M156 with colder plugs, but on the E55 we have 2 steps colder and it runs great. I can't think of a reason it would care too much.

Thanks!

Dave

Ok you need different injectors then the ones your supplying if you have long tubes? Thought that was what the car had you where dyno testing? Just confirming confused on the response. I plan on getting this for sure. Working on the wife lol.

im pretty sure he means he has run out of the factory injectors as he ports them and to get them from another company

Yeah... kinda been dragging ass about sending the injectors back. Gotta get that box out first thing tomorrow. Just ran my first full tank of E85 though and the car spooks me a bit now! Plenty of power there and I still haven't put the pedal all the way down yet.

So, the issue is that we never got any cores back, and 90% of the people want to keep their stocks (which we didn't anticipate). This has led us to re-think the supply for the injectors.

Bottom line is that the kit price will be for the kit and WON'T include injectors.

HOWEVER - if you have longtubes, you *MUST* run at least 550cc or you will run out of fuel at the top. So! The solution is that we will be offering brand new Bosch injectors in lieu of the previous ported ones. The reason for the core program was obviously to keep the cost as low as possible... so naturally the price of new injectors will reflect a slight increase. As before, we wont be looking to make any money on the injectors, just covering our costs. We sold the last kit today at the "launch price" so I wanted to announce the new pricing:

$1,600 shipped for the system, and it will **not** include injectors.

Still finalizing the numbers - and trying to keep pricing as close as possible. but it looks like the injectors will come in at just under $500 for a set.

Then : If you needed injectors, and elected to keep yours, you would be spending $1,950 ($1,600 +$350 core)

Now : You spend about $150 more, keep your stocks, and get brand new injectors. I think its a win for most everyone, as we have found that most just want to keep theirs anyhow.


*******If you DON'T have longtubes - kit price is just $1,600*********

Still happy to help you out with injectors should you decide to go with longtubes later (AND I'm happy to help with the LTH as well for that matter)

Thanks for following the developments! I look froward to more systems getting onto cars, and more folks finding all that lost power that's missing without running E85 :)

Dave

Damm. For me that's a 500 buck increase. I had absolutely no intention of keeping my stock injectors. I don't see why anyone would what's the point. From my understanding the ported ones work with a stock tune and look stock to Mercedes what's the point of keeping them. That is disappointing.

Sent PM

Thanks!

Dave

Just filmed the injector install video :)

Ill have it up on the channel by the end of the day!

Thanks!

Dave

Well I did it!! I bought a kit. Excited to see the gains. I will post up a review when I fill it up with e85. I will def install right away but might wait till the weather gets warmer for an e85 test. This combined with the headers I just bought in my basement should be a fun summer. Just a word to everyone I delt with Adam. Very knowledgable and seems like a great guy. Spent 25 minutes on the phone with me answering all my dumb questions. Thanks atx great guys over there.

Nice. Look forward to hearing your thoughts after you have everything fitted.
Are you going to do a before and after dyno.

That is the plan. Will make a post when I do.

Dave, I feel like I may be missing something..... I just bought my current C63 and as of this moment it is still stock. I see mention of a tune in some posts and not in others, so how does that work? Do I need the handheld tuner to flash my ECU with a tune thats provided as part of the kit?

Also any recommendation on a more affordable air box upgrade? I don't need the seemingly standard carbon fiber, I would rather get a plastic one for less $ since nobody will ever see it. Thanks!

Do a search and all your questions will be easily found. There's even a handy FAQ at the top of the forum.

You don't need a tune, you can get this kit, install it WITHOUT a tune and it will work great and you'll make more power.

I can do a package deal with a tune/hand-held and some ROW Air Boxes (what I would recommend) for you if you would like.

Please PM me and we'll work something out for sure!

Thanks a lot. If you go with longtubes - you will need to upgrade your injectors, but we have that all squared away now :)

Thanks

Dave

When are you getting a kit for the "Track Rat" - easiest way to keep oil/engine temps down ;)

Thanks

Dave

No, actually the best way was to install the 44O cooling kit and higher capacity trans pan. :D

Thought about this, but E85 isn't readily available enough here, and I don't have the trunk space to carry 80gal of the stuff with me for trackdays. 44O and race fuel and I'm more than good for now thanks! :y

Dave, if we've already got a V6 tune, will there be an additional charge to have the map altered to optimise for flex fuel?

Also,how many degree's of additional timing does it generally allow a motor with headers to run?

First 30 to purchase the FlexKit will get the "HotMap" (what I just named it) for free.

After that - $35 for the map.

Remember - you will be treating this map just like any other race gas map... ONLY to be used with Ethanol.

Thanks!

Dave

Dang - price on that must be wicked high.... Ethanol also gives you more power than race gas, AND cools the engine BETTER than 44O. Not to mention costing under $2 a gallon... how much is that MS109? $15-20/gallon?


just sayin'

Thanks

Dave

Ahhh, so I will need to purchase a My Genius thing to be able to switch maps? Does it still make a notable power increase without the aggressive tune uploaded?

I'm almost tempted now that my car is a lot happier. I'll be in touch. I think I'm also going to want you to make me a kit for my other car too that we discussed in the PM. I just need more positive reviews to get me on the bandwagon :)

Yeah, silly me for thinking that the best way to cool oil and coolant is with better..... coolers. I must be old school.

Ethanol is NOT a replacement for better coolers. There are certain benefits for sure, and the power bump is nice (not enough power isn't my most pressing issue), but that statement is just flat out wrong.

$8/gal at the track and I usually go through ~40gal on a weekend. Beats towing a trailer with 80gal of E85. :zoom:

We'll get you there!

You're probably looking at an additional 10whp or so with the "HotMap" ;)

I would 100% get a handheld, you can re-flash your car on the side of the road. SUPER easy to use. Still a very good power increase without the "HotTune". I would be surprised if you didn't break into the 500's at the wheels.

Thanks!

Dave

how much power do you think this will get over an agressive 104 map tune on 110 oct race gas.

my thought would be similar power. the benefit is you can run e85 all the time for at least by me 1.80 per gallon vs a race gas tune that your only going to run at the track.

I've been messing with mmt/torco 93 mix with good but dyno results on 93 map but have not tried the 104 map yet.

how does this kit work with bigger injectors without a tune on normal gas.wint it run rich with bigger injectors?

How much power do you make on the 104 map?

We have tested the theory of larger injectors/running rich for a few thousand miles, obviously it would show up within the first tank if waas going to be a problem by simply looking at fuel trims. On all test cars trims are good, and no check engine lights for mixture adaptation. The reason it doesn't run rich (you may know this already) is that the system works from a Target AFR (or Lambda) and the injector PW is modified (trimming) to get to that target. you have "Short Term" and "Long Term" fuel trims, each working in blocks, if short term has to go up 25 units (for example), this will effect the long term by 1 unit. After this, Short Term resets to "0" and mixture is checked to see if moving it up 1 unit got us to "Target AFR". There is a pretty good margin on the M156 where we can do this. That't the long answer, but should tell you what you need to know.

Thanks!

Dave

Better way to do it is to CREATE LESS heat to begin with. The combustion even for Ethanol/E85 creates about 300 degrees LESS heat that 91/93/Race Fuel. That means that your cylinder temps are lower = less heat your pistons, heads, cylinder walls see = less heat your cooling system needs to even deal with in the first place = ZERO need for 44o cooling. AND more power than race gas @ under $2 a gallon. I can 100% see if you don't have it locally available.

We don't need to get ugly over it, but 44o just seems like more of a band aid than a proper solution.

Thanks

Dave

Was just reading the thread again to catch any points I'd missed and seen your post.

E85 here is pretty much non-existent. But that being said, I can have 120 litres delivered to me for £120GBP....my fuel tank is 59l (let's say 60l for this example). At a ratio of 50/50 (is the 25whp gain claim based on a 50:50 mix, or is it the max 80:20?), I'll be using around 30l of E85 per tank, which gives me 4 tank fulls...which will probably last me 2 months (I haven't taken into account the higher fuel consumption though). On the basis that 98 RON fuel is around £1.30GBP here, as long as the fuel consumption is only around 10% worse off, it wont really be costing any different to normal (assuming my math is correct...which it usually isn't). 20% worse fuel consumption....probably still wouldn't bother me much, on the basis that the power will be a lot stronger all over the powerband.

So yeah...question for you Dave is...by running a 50:50 mixture, can the ~25whp increase be seen? Also does the 25whp gain apply for just running E85 on the existing tune of the car? For the sake of streetability, I think I'd prefer not to have to worry about switching maps around for daily driving n stuff.

If both of these points can be satisfied, I think I'll be ordering in the next couple of months. Just a shame that the exchange rate and import taxes are going to hurt me a lot when i buy :(

The question of ratio can be a tough one, because actual % can vary (unless you can get a guaranteed % at the price you stated). You want between 70-80% for max power on the NA M156. so you'll have to do some more math to figure out the exact mix that will get you there based on the fuel you have available.

You will still make more power, no matter what, in fact, just by plugging the system into a car running 91/93... we have seen modest 4-5whp gains by the system compensating for the 10-15% ethanol that's already in the the fuel. Not just one one car, but every car we have tested. M156's, M113k's, Hellcats, Corvette Zo6, BMW M3's (both supercharged and N/A), etc...

Just more and more power on up as you cut in more % :)

And yes to you other question, advertised power is based on your CURRENT tune, with more being available with the "HotMap"

Thanks!

Dave

I know this is your thread Dave, and I wish you the best of luck with this kit - it's certainly good for some people and as a happy EC customer I want you guys to do well.

But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.

No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.

Here's what I mean by "band-aid". MB - "Oops, our cars go into limp after a couple hard laps on the track on the vehicle that is our most *track ready* offering"

You just can't drive them hard for long, on warm days without having cooling issues. All I'm saying. MB fix - sell more coolers. Car should have come with them from the start.

Been an MB diag tech/team leader for over a decade before opening my shop, and have vast experience on the M156, M113, M157, and pretty much everything else MB has to offer. I have foreman notes for every conference call since 2003. I have a 59' 190SL in the shop right now, and just a week ago I had an SLS. Tomorrow I will have an UGR 1,600whp Gallrado here. I'm not tooting my own horn. Just showing my credentials. I know some things...

Thanks

Dave

yes I figured the ECU would target fuel trims to compensate for the injectors but my main concern with people without a specific tune would run dangerously lean up top end when using e85.

right now I'm seeing 13.2 up top and I don't want to go any leaner.even with bigger injectors won't the car lean out on e85 with the map demanding more fuel?

I'm at 442whp on 93 map and have not tested 104 map as it's winter up here and the car is stored.

The system targets your commanded AFR (based on commanded PW) if you have enough pump and injector - you won't run any leaner than what's commanded in your 93 tune.

Can be hard to explain in print, but if you call Adam, he will tell you more than you care to know - HAHA

512-777-2799

Thanks

Dave

Another little update. Finally had a somewhat dry day here. On my way to work when I decided to get on it. With brand new rubber the car spun its tires shifting into 3rd and I had even put the throttle down all the way. It's never done that before so I was a little shocked. I've been getting decent gas mileage too out of it. My last fill up was saturday and I'm still above a 1/4 tank and the car is my daily driver. This has certainly been my favorite mod to the car yet.

AWESOME to hear!

Please keep us posted :)


Thanks!

Dave

Ordered mine too. Cant wait to get it. Had a snow storm here but by the time it arrives and the roads clear, i should be good to go

Just an example I ran e85 on my evolution ix for years, I decided to remove the oil cooler once my built motor went in and the ambient temps where much lower then when the car had an oil cooler.

Update on the E55 platform!

We have been building a sort of "Frankenstein" E55 around here, and we just had it on the dyno today. Naturally, as we are Eurocharged ATX, Jerry handled the tuning on this monster of a car!

It presented with very good numbers, but it's got more to give :)

these runs on 68%, moving up to 85% or so tomorrow

Thanks

Dave

Mods on the E55?

The basics:

178mm Crank Pulley
77mm S/C Pulley
650cc Injectors
(2) Walbro 450's
ARH Longtubes
90mm TB


Thanks!
Dave

Picked my car up today and initial start up was fine. Every start up since has been normal. Rough idle after start up just once but no check engine light.

Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.

Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.

Dyno it

I'll see if I have time. Filled up today with 3/4 E85 and 1/4 93 octane. Car feels great. You can deff feel the extra power. I'll try and do a dyno.

When you get an e85 kit, don't you have to tune the car specifically for it?

Have you not read any of this thread? The flex fuel sensor compensates for it.

No you dont have to. You can if you want but Im still on an OE tune with the kit.

You don't, not with this system :)

you can call the shop if you have any questions - Thanks!

512-777-2799


Dave

Nitrous
 

What about nitrous combined with your e85 kit?

We have not tested a car with nitrous, but as long as you have enough fuel for it - there is no reason why it wouldn't perform well.

Thanks!

Dave

I'm located in NYC as well and I am also going to bergen imports to install the e85 kit...How do you like the kit?

love it man. Car seem to love it too. I switch back and forth between E85 and 93 and no issues.

Hey Dave, where is that vid you took of the injector install. I'm installing tom most likly, would be helpful. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Most people seem to have not had any problems and I'm mechanically inclined, but I know you posted you took the vid. If it's not much trouble post it up would be helpful thanks.

Yep! Never posted it - Should be up tonight, and ill link it here :)

Thanks,

Dave

Will we get to see a before and after dyno?

Yes you will. I will be making my own thread soon. Got it installed last night running great. Testing out the limits on cold starting, 34 today. Easing into full e85. Full review coming soon. I plan on doing multiple dyno runs with various setups. A good priced dyno is the next town over 15 min drive so stay tuned.

Top man, looking forward to your results :y

any updates on e85?

Going to AMG dyno day this saturday at World Motorsports so I should have a dyno sheet to post by Monday.

:popcorn:

waiting on warmer weather for a dyno. Need to get the summers on before I go. I will say I have run an e60 blend so far in 12 degree weather no starting issues. Car runs great. I can def feel the power increase the higher blend I go it's worth it.

that's good to hear.I can't wait to hear how e85 feels and maybe some ms109 mixed in as well lol

So the car went on the dyno today at World Motorsports. Did 3 runs with the outcome of 475, 472, 471 rwhp and 404 torque respectively. Dynosheets to come!

Good #'s Captn
What are your other mods?

I have my secondary cat deleted, under drive crank pulley, row air boxes with AFE filters, and Eurocharged V6 tune, and I was running nothing but E85 today. Before me a stock 2008 E63 and a 2012 C63 with a eurocharged tune and both made between 380-400 during their runs to so it gave me an idea of how much of an improvement the kit made. The dyno was done on a mustang dyno in a wind tunnel.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3def8665d1.jpg

Damn, those are good numbers. He doesn't have headers from what I can remember. Looks like 500+ is definitely attainable for those of us with headers.

Bit disappointed with the torque figure though, but perhaps it's a different story for headers also. HP is pretty stout for just drop in filters, tune and underdrive crank pulley

Correct, being a mustang dyno they typically read a bit lower than dynojet.
I have similar setup w/headers w/o e85 and I made 476whp/452wtq on a dynojet. I'm strongly considering this system.

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="7" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAA pWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY 9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wO HiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90G Sy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BRzJoCeBnlr/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Testing the magic corn oil in my car. 475 rwhp and no headers! #eurochargedatx #worldmotorsports #E85 #C63 #m156 #AMG #amgsocallounge #dyno #mercedesamg</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by James E. Guerrero (@captain_charisma17) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2017-03-19T00:15:19+00:00">Mar 18, 2017 at 5:15pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>

well that was supposed to show the video. just try this link

The numbers are even more impressive considering that your engine isn't the P31 fancy one.

Nice numbers!

I have the development package so I do have the fancy engine

The fancy engine that he's speaking of wasn't available until 2012 and is part of the P31 package...

Regardless, awesome numbers dude! Seriously, awesome! :y

Whats so fancy about it other than a different transmission? Mines a p31 so it has all the same fixings other than the transmission and cooling fins on my lsd

No, yours is a P30. The P31 was not offered until 2012.

The P31 has upgraded engine internals: lightweight forged pistons, lightweight connecting rods and a revised crankshaft.

The P30 did not include upgraded engine internals. It included LSD, upgraded brakes, track suspension, alcantra steering wheel and increased top speed to 174mph.

I have a 2010 with P31 has all the SLS internals , LSD, big brakes,
said P31 AMG Development Package right on the sticker

Incorrect. P30 was discontinued after 2009 and was replaced by the P31 in 2010. In some countries (can't remember which), they continued to call it P30 but the items in the package changed to what you have listed as P30/31. In the US, P30 was 2008/9 and P31 was 2010+ with all suspension components being the same and the engine internals changing.

I stand corrected. I thought P30/P31 were tied to non-FL and FL models accordingly.

Learned something new today :D

The changeover from P30 to P31 in NA took place during the 2010 MY during Mid-December 2009 build dates.

I go to the Dyno today to get the base of the car. 385/393/393 whp. The first time I don´t push the gas at 100%. Mine first time at a dyno ever.
Car is ´08 C63 with 146k milles, Eurotunning v5, sec cat delete, EC X-pipe, running 97 octane gas.
I am waiting for the ethanol kit from Dave and going to share results. Good thing is am from Paraguay and we have E98 at almost any gas station here, is going to be easy to run with a 70/80% ethanol all the time.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6d4249d3c1.jpg

Strong base numbers for the mods on a Mustang Dyno.

Keep us updated on progress.

I do wish that they would have offered the lighter rotating assembly to those that paid for the P31 package on the other 63 models (like my W212 :( ) from 2010 onwards also.

Pretty sure for my car all it is, is an LSD and upgraded struts :rolleyes:

I don't remember if it's lighter or not. Stronger, yes due to parts being forged. But I can't remember if they are actually lighter. Someone else can maybe chime in.

Anyone running this on the Black Series?

Why? There's no difference whatsoever in this particular instance. :nix: :rolleyes:

The one NA car that had higher numbers than mine was at the Dyno day was a 2012 Black Series and he put up 515rwhp and I think his mods were just full Weistec exhaust setup with no cats and row air boxes. I think with the kit he may hit 600hp.

He made 75whp more with the e85 kit, with no other changes?

My BS made 530 HP and 440 Torque with Frequency Intelligent LT Headers, Row AirBoxes and V6 tune.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post7033657

465.7whp :nix:

Anyway, what does that have to do with this thread

This just perfectly demonstrates that dyno numbers are totally worthless.

I'm sorry, but no C63 - BS, P31, or otherwise - is making 515whp with just an exhaust and ROW airboxes. It's impossible.

DYNO figures dont mean crap

not true at all they only don't mean anything if you compare my dyno to your dyno. Diff dyno location day temp ect ect. It is there to show gains. Also gives idea of a normal range like a tuned c63 tune only normally is around 410 to 430 dyno jet. Just a range that's all. Mostly for comparing gains of mods only though.

even using the same dyno you can fudge figures by ramping up and down and side to side

How come with mods the HP always goes up a ton but the torque doesn't? Is it because opening up the exhaust for more power comes at the expense of low-end torque?

That sort of answers my question, but not really. That answers the question as to why torque is calculated at lower RPMs compared to horsepower. My question was this - how come with the mods, torque and horsepower increase disproportionately when they are both calculated @ max value (RPM shouldn't matter). Stock that car is 510hp and 457tq so 90% tq/hp (457/510) but after mods it's only 83% (440/530). Why after modding do we lose like 10% of that ratio? Is it because most mods increase airflow and decrease backpressure leading to an increase in high end HP and decrease in tq? I'm sorry if I'm asking as silly question, I'm pretty new to this stuff. Thanks!

Are you talking correction factor? If the dyno is setup the same from pull to pull it does the job it needs to shows gains or losses of mods. It it was worthless it wouldn't be Around. I disagree with you.

CaptNCarisma stated I put down 515 at the dyno day we had, I just correctly put down my numbers.

Even strapping it down or loosing the straps it will show a different figure its just how it is

Yes it's true. The more you open up your exhaust the more HP youll get vs torque. It has to do with the back pressure.

In the interest of clarity, the above statement needs some qualification.
That is; a full open exhaust, like with four individual straight pipes from the heads into the atmosphere, will not produce as much power or torque as a well designed and tuned-length set of headers with a good collector. Good scavenging can make a huge difference.

A few years back I designed these which netted an 11hp/10tq gain over the previous design for a V8-Supercar team (5.0 ltr). The tubes were smaller in diameter than previous versions.
In previous years, the V8-Supercar series run E85.


https://*******/photos/nnNQpXHsHnYRPsFW6

https://*******/photos/aLXJvexCidHz4wCt5

So late on this but I finally took the time to get files off my phone...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...cf9d8c9624.png

thats without headers correct?

Correctamundo! Secondary cat delete, Row Airboxes with AFE filters, Agency Power Underdrive Crank Pulley, 180F thermostat(that does nothing), V6 tune, and running a full tank of E85 from G&M. Greatly exceeded my expectations.

Hows that under drive pulley working out for you?

Just fine. Not a single issue with it. Probably have about 30k miles on it. The only numbers I have supporting it though come off my butt dyno.

That's good power considering you don't have headers.
Do you know what your power was before you fitted the flex fuel kit.

Probably around 400. I never did a dyno not on E85. Before my car an E63 went ahead of me and it was putting numbers up around there.

I wish there were e85 stations near me .there is only like 3 in my state that came up searching.there are a couple in Boston but I'm not going to drive an hour to get gas.

The better breathing (flow) of exhaust gas (from fitting headers) enables the exhaust gas to expel the cylinders quicker and prepare them for a fuller charge on the next cycle. This proportion of this gain is usually more at higher rpm because the engine needs it more at higher rpm (the engine literally can't get rid of the exhaust gas fast enough at high rpm because of how quickly it's turning, hence ported cylinder heads help a lot in this respect, at least on the exhaust side). Now although the peak torque figure might not change dramatically after headers + tune etc (usually around 20/30wtq or so in most cases on this motor? :nix: ), the torque figure is still higher at higher rpm but to understand it better, you'll need to see an overlaid before/after dyno plot. Different exhaust combo's can affect how much the gain in top end vs mid-range appears. ie, decatted cars might still see something like 460whp, but only 395wtq peak whereas longtube cars might see something like 480whp and then 430whp.

Before anybody jumps on my back, this is an illustrative example ^ and I have simplified it.


This might help:

1) You can't really compare the stock figure that MB provide and then apply it to a shop dyno....you've got to do a baseline at whatever shop you choose and then use that to gauge your improvements after mods
2) Based on this ^ you shouldn't really be seeing a drop in torque. If anything, it will climb higher. I know there's the whole back-pressure misunderstanding on the interweb, and in some cases yeah you might lose a bit of low-down power, but it's not back-pressure that you want...it's flow-velocity, which you may lose from having too big an exhaust bore, but through increased scavenging that ken@magnusson mentioned, you can recoup that low end power and still improve the top end breathing for more peak power


I just deleted a couple of other points because I was starting to go off at a tangent. I think the points made above should help. If not...keep reading/researching...you'll get there eventually :y

I'd like to do this myself also, but if I try to buy E85 out of a drum, it's only sold as race-bred E85 and hella expensive. Not really sure how the rest of us without E85 stations can make this mod happen :nix:

I've been kinda lucky out here in Socal. Theres a G&M station just a block away and they advertise their pump E85 as race gas, 85% Ethanol and put a silly race car stick on the pump. I'd say my numbers would support what they are saying. I am kinda curious though if my car makes better use of the at most 15% ethanol in 91 than it did before I got the kit installed.

Well, a lot of us are envious of you having an E85 pump so accessible to you.

470whp and no excessive headers noise :bow:

I wouldn't mind the header noise. I just don't want to deal with the pain of the ass smog and Johnny Law if I had headers. I can see is the potential power that I can make with E85 if I had a set of long tubes though.

I have the same problem here in South Africa. E85 is sold and marketed as a racing fuel, and is considerably more expensive than pump gas.
I would love to get the flex fuel mod, but it's just not worth it here in SA.

Ahhh fair play. Well, headers are LOUD....it's no exaggeration when you see countless threads saying the same thing. YouTube video's simply do not do it justice. I happen to love the sound....I just don't like the fact that I'm disturbing my street (not neighbours....the street :smash: )


Yeah it hurts man. I mean...the double price thing is one thing...but then with more fuel consumption...ouch. For example to fill my car it's around....let's call it £90GBP for 66 litres of fuel. 50 litres of race bred E85 (VP or Sunaco) is £210GBP. The ratio is meant to be...let's say....70-80%....50 litres of E85 and then 16 litres of pump fuel fits into this range nicely with a ~76% ratio for max power. SO.....I need to factor 16l x £1.30 (cost per litre) which makes a tank full cost a grand total of around £231GBP and it'll return me....dunno, let's say 'a couple' mpg less than normal (according to Dave's view earlier in the thread) which would equate to 14.6 gallons x 2 = let's say 30 miles less per tank.

Hmmm...at this point I'm thinking that for the difference in cost (~£140GBP) per tank, I can get at least two 11lb bottle refills of nitrous and run a conservative 70hp hit....

OR I guess the other way to look at it would be that it would be a treat for the summer and I should only allow myself one full tank of E85 per month and drive my car slightly less t avoid wasting the mixture on trips to the supermarket.... :nix: I know that sounds stupid, but I'm not sure how else to justify this to myself. Either that or work harder and bring in more disposable income :confused:

I am very lucky here in Paraguay with at least half of gas stations having E98 priced at 33% less than gas. I do the mix to get 70% ethanol at the pump. I am waiting to do a new dyno. By now i can say that the extra power is amaizing.

Thanks Freddy. Just keep rubbing it in.

David are the injectors Bosch or a different brand. Would you sell only the injectors?

Can you please inbox me the cost of the full kit, including price of injectors if needed and any other needed accessories.

Thanks! PM Sent :)

Hey Dave is there any concern of the fuel sensor in the gas tank? I saw a few videos of people saying after a while there fuel gauge stopped working.

Also are you guys fluid dynamics? I raced a m3 the other night in my area and he was on e85 and we pulled over and started to talk and he told me what kit he has.

When I went to his kits site it had a kit for a c63 but was the same one you guys have at eurocharged. Along with your dynos and videos.

Are you guys the same or just the main seller for the c63 kit

1.) How did the race with the M3 go?

2.) We have had no issues with fuel gauges in the long term test cars. I have no reason to believe that there is a relationship there.

3.) We have been developing the kits with Advanced Fuel Dynamics. They are right up the road and we do quite a bit of R&D in house for them, as well as the initial development and testing of their offerings.

4.) AFD is a separate company, and the owner is a personal friend.

Thanks!

Dave

I was very impressed with his car I was neck to neck with him up to about 110 we did 4 pulls all the same but I was starting in 3rd gear(not optimal) because I was fighting traction in second and he was in 2nd but he traps 122 so it gave me a really good run.

Very impressed how fast he was and meeting up this weekend to hit the tack up.

I actually thought he was supercharged!

E85 Brah... It gives you wings!

Thanks!

Dave

Being a poor pc wateecooling designer. Asus pays me in hardware so I get paid when I sell the excess ones I don't use ie: I have BNIB 6950xs, Titan xp(2017) etc money is sparadoic can I buy injectors first, then the rest of the kit kinda pay as I go?

I've seen at least 8 C63's here in NY running it now. Great mod for sure!

I finally goes to the dyno. Here is the Sheet for v5 GAS over v6 E85 fuel map with the ethanol kit installed. Both whp and torque increase considerably.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...cf65b9405a.jpg

Looks great to me man!!

Thanks for taking it to the dyno :)

Dave

Yes, and the car also feels great :) the extra power is all the way!!. the maximun increase is +50whp at 5.500 rpm.

Thank you Dave!. This kit is a must have!:rolleyes:

There is only gas station here in Olathe, KS, but I've had my eye on it for a while. I keep reading all these threads and it gets more and more tempting. May have to check out the place this weekend and maybe pick up the kit :D.

*Edit*
Decided to try it out and sent my purchase over the weekend! Can't wait to install and fill up for the first time!

Thank you Dave and the other EC people for checking up and helping out and quick replies, always great service.

Pulled the trigger this morning, can't wait to install and see what the hype is about on a N/A car, every bit helps. Dave and Adam were easy to talk to and answered any questions I could think of, seemed like good people thank you!

They just finished construction (like, 3 weeks ago) on a gas station 2 miles from my house and next to the highway, offering E85 on 4 of their pumps. My wallet is hella itchy now. Any updates from those of you who've recently purchased yours? I put down 451/389 on a dynojet some months back, and really curious what my gains will be; doubt 475/410 would be unreasonably expected.

Pretty much my numbers and I had ROW boxes, V6 tune, under drive pulley, and a 2nd cat delete before switching over. Maybe those magic air box spacers will get me to 500whp!

is this kit listed on the eurocharged site?

Kit comes from Eurocharged Houston. Contact Dave (DavesMeanE's) for info.

https://www.eurocharged.com/locations

Howdy!

You can ring up the shop, Eurocharged ATX (in Austin, TX) to chat about it :)

Thanks

*****512-777-2799*****

Ask for Adam:y

Is anyone running a step or two colder spark plugs on their setup? Had some misfires happen to the car so its got me wondering about pre detonation being an issue.

that happened to a buddy of mine too and I would agree a step colder on the plugs should help

Looking at pulling the trigger on this. From what I have read I will not need to upgrade injectors unless I am running FI or LT headers. Correct? Only mod to my car is secondary cats removed and V6 tune.

That is correct sir, no injectors needed for that mod package :)

Call the shop and chat with Adam if you have any further questions.

512-777-2799

Thanks

Dave

Crazy gains for NA. Just nuts.. Is it because AMG left a lot on the table? What are the gains with race gas?

I'm guessing less gains with race fuel than E85. We used to run Q16 at 18.00 per gallon and we make the same HP/TQ with E85. We really stretch the timing out on our NA racecar to take full advantage of knock resistance.
NA 1847cc Mazda FWIW.
Vince

The flex fuel kit is for e85 not race fuel. You can put race fuel in your car without this kit just like normal gas. E85 and race gas when tuned for will be similar. The difference being you can run e85 for under 2 bucks a gallon by me allowing you to have that power on a daily basis. I don't think many daily their car on race gas for 9 bucks a gallon.

Do you see much of an increase with just race fuel on the normal street tune? Like an incremental 1-2 degrees perhaps?

Anyone happen to know the part number of the Bosch injectors that come with the kit?

Just race car with a stand alone Tec3r computer. Before E85 was around I ran Q16 race fuel and was able to run 10 -15 more advance at 7k RPM. Then with E85 I am able to run the same stupid advance numbers. Same HP gains too.
Vince

they are factory injectors drilled to 550cc

originally they where now they are Bosch injectors. Call up Adam at atx.

W212
 

Had my W212 on the rollers recently. Pretty normal mods limited to ROW airboxes, secondary cat and resonator delete, and the flex fuel kit. This is with the Eurocharged V7 tune on a nice warm day.

On 93 octane I was seeing approximately 445hp and 408lbft. On E85 (still the stock V7 tune, not an E85 specific tune) those numbers went to 470hp and 420lbft.

Additionally running E85 I can do a full out 20 minute track session at 95 degrees without oil temps hitting more than 270. On 93 I'd be hitting 285 and getting thermal shutdowns, even with a giant secondary oil cooler, so that's another big win

Curious as to what an E85 specific tune would do, but not curious enough to mess with flashing it back and forth with the risk of forgetting. 470hp is already a whole lot of fun on the track!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0f2d29800.jpeg

Nice work man...always nice to see a fellow W212 M156 performing well :y

Let's see some pictures of your engine bays with the flex fuel kit installed.
Is it easy to see the mods with the new fuel rail with ethanol sensor, and the controller mounted in the engine bay.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6ce8b09e5.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6f2993851.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d5c0465a2.jpeg
As you can see the only part you can see is the ethanol sensor. The box you can see in the one pic tucked down by the strut tower area. If you didn't know what to look for you would never know. Looks stock.

e85 is my next and last mod. I would like to run a e85 ONLY tune but if would have to be significant increase in hp/tq vs a flex tune

So Eurocharged, can you provide wheel hp and tq numbers that one would potentially see on your v7 header tune with a e85 tune vs a flex tune?

You'r not gonna see a massive increase if you're on E85 and a flex tune, and go to the E85 tune. most of the power is in the fuel itself. While you can run extra timing safely on E, this isn't where the bulk of the power is made... you can expect about a 10whp bump with the E85 tune (over whatever you make on flex).

V7, LTH, ROW, Flex should put you at or above 500whp (obviously assuming your car is otherwise in perfect mechanical shape, which MANY are not)

Thanks!

Dave

What would be the mimimum amount of e85 you would need to be mixed with 93 pump in order to have your flex map performing to its maximum potential? Could you explain a little further on how the flex map operates in regards to having different percentages of e85 to pump?

there are 12 pages that talk about this. Scroll up. The map is no different then anyone else v6, v7, v5 whatever version you have or get. There is no flex map. It's a normal tune. The flex part of it is the kit that has the box that adjust fueling. The amount of fuel mix is up to you. The flex fuel kit that is what senses the percentages of ethanol and adjusts fueling. Why would you want to mix just go full e85. But you can mix what ever suits your fancy.

Seriously this is all addressed in this thread. If your car is NA then it can probably only use 85% of a full tank of E85 effectively. Supercharged is about 100% but I haven't seen anyones results yet. I dyno'd 475whp on a V6 tune, row boxes, afe filters, and a secondary cat delete. Personally I like to have 1 gallon of 91 for every full tank of E85 just to make the car start easier. The kit takes only an hour to install, theres pictures and videos all in this thread of how to do that. E85 is significantly cheaper where I am at and available. If you read the whole thread and still have questions then just call Dave at EurochargedATX.

I suppose I could read through 12 pages instead of just asking the vendor who is selling the kit a question. :nix:

New question :)
 

What failsafe is in place? Say this controller quits working, so it stops telling the injectors to bump up the flow. Does it go to stock flow or will it stop injectors all together to stop the motor? Is there a chance the controller 'breaks' and runs the motor too lean?

That's a great question! I will start by saying that to date, hundreds of thousands of miles have been logged, without a single failure. Before going into it I want to first emphasize the quality of the electronics here, everything specified for use was intentionally selected and rated to AT LEAST **Hundreds** of percent over the requirements of the circuits. This Isn't some chinese crap box with the cheapest possible materials and assembly to get it out the door. Each unit is built in the USA, Tested in the USA, run on a real car in the USA before ever being shipped... SO now that we have that out of the way :)... There are a couple possibilities... Ground fault - say the ground breaks for the controller - the car will simply shut off. Say the power is cut - Car will shut off. Internally, each injector has a dedicated circuit, and they are all run independently. It is designed this way to prevent a "global" failure. If one cylinder circuit fails - ECU will immediately detect misfire and shut down the injector for that cylinder completely. It has been designed in such a way that **IF** there ever is a failure - your engine is not at risk due to this system. Obviously there are plenty of other ways you can damage your engine, especially when you decide to modify it from stock.

Thanks for the question!

Dave

possible to get a group buy?

Group Buy for FLEX
 

That's up to y'all ;) I'm happy to cut a deal for a group buy though :naughty:

I'll call it the Halloween Group Buy!

bentz69 - I'm putting you in charge since you asked - Here's the deal:

You can make a new thread or whatever you want to get the word out and promote it so you can get that price :)

- 10 People sign up AND PAY by October 31st at Midnight (more are obviously always welcomed)
- Price will be $1,250 ($250 off!! ) shipped for a system (for cars with no headers) and +$400 ($80 off injectors!!!) for cars with headers ( I HIGHLY recommend you consider this anyhow, as we have had a lot of folks say that they wont get headers, but then end up doing it anyway... then they have to send the harness back to be modified and it ends up costing them more money...)
- They will ship the following week.
- Injectors are BRAND NEW **GENUINE** Bosch 550cc w/ serial #'s
- Easy as Pumpkin Pie!

Thanks

Dave

group buy started...

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post7291098

Very interested now that there is a group buy!
Quick question and i'm sorry if its been answered before but if i currently have a Eurocharged V5 tune. do i have to mess with the tune in anyway or just slap on this E85 kit and go?
Also does it come with proper instruction besides the youtube install videos i see floating around?

Slap it on and go :)

Install is simple and tech support is always there when you need it :)

Thanks!

Dave

Has the problems with the car in southern california been solved involving this kit, i heard they were costly

thanks

What happened?

I would also like to know what happened 😀

What happened was I had an injector get stuck wide open and that led to me bending a rod. Instead of replacing the engine I opted to rebuild it myself with a few upgrades. Just waiting on the main engine bolts then I can start putting it back together.

Was that with the injectors that came with the kit?

Yes, one of the ported mercedes injectors. Pretty much the same as the ones I pulled out. Shortly after that I started seeing posts of people with that old style injector having misfires around the same mileage I had. I guess mercedes has gone through a few different versions of it. I don't really fault the kit. I could have kept my stock injectors and ran about the same risk. I have now swapped them all out with the Bosch injectors.

I thought the kit gives you updated brand new injectors? I don't know I was going to pull the trigger but I'm staying away from e85 now.

Does there Warranty cover the cost to rebuild?

The kit now does offer brand new injectors if you want them. In the beginning they would port used m156 injectors. Other than the size they were pretty much the same ones I had originally so I could of had no mods and still mess up the engine, saw enough threads of that happening to PFL cars. Honestly when I pulled them all out they were all spotless except for the one from the affected cylinder which was filthy with crud all over it.

My car is a 2010 so the warranty is long gone. Still its giving me a chance to throw in SLS Black series valve buckets, straight pipes, bigger throttle bodies, and phenolic spacers. Too many of the damn bolts thought are one use only and take forever on shipping.

did eurocharge take any responsibility? As you changed to their injectors and the bent rod occurred?

I don't hold Eurocharged at fault at all. If anything I made a huge error that day from what I thought my misfiring was caused by a bad spark plug for whatever reason and thought I fixed it and then proceeded to drive on it the rest of the day as I got ready for a road rally. If I could I would actually hold Mercedes accountable for not recalling the old style injectors but no way would I win that battle being out of warranty and mods all over my car. I ****ed up and should have noticed that my engine oil had 2 gallons of E85 in it and was probably pre detonating whenever the engine got hot enough or at WOT. Expensive mistake, lesson learned. The silver lining was that I was going to open up the engine anyways to do the head bolts so this kinda hurried it along.

Here's an example of a few of the variations of the M156 Injectors. I have replaced MANY Q2's and a few Q3's... About a dozen hydrolocked engines... but usually just have to replace the injector(s), clear the cylinder, change the oil and have a nice day... They are up to Q5 and I don't know of any failures on those.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...74a3c062d7.jpg

Kit comes with Brand new Bosch 550cc injectors. If you are running Q2,Q3, possibly even Q4 (as they made yet another revision) you are at risk of an injector locking opened, all of the ones I have dealt with have been on unmodified cars, running unleaded fuel.

Thanks

Dave

I'll check tomorrow what revision I have but I thought he got brand new injectors with his kit? Are you guys porting old injectors that people are sending in and re selling them with the kit?

No - ALL kits now come with the brand new injectors... He did have a set of ported injectors.

Thanks

Dave

:popcorn:

hi dave :wavey:

that makes me worry seeing as I as well have the ported injectors instead of the Bosch. Did your car throw a code for injector issue?

Yes. I was rushing though and didn't take the time to understand everything I was seeing. While commuting home I got on it a little and then the car started shaking while the check engine light came on. Only had to drive it one more mile. Code said cylinder 7 misfire. Pulled the spark plug and it just looked unevenly worn. Put a spare spark plug in, cleared the code, then started the car. The car had to turn over a lot before it would start. Drove 2 hours to my parents house where I was going to stay the night so I could go to my rally the next day and didn't have any issues during that drive. That night it started up fine but on the highway I got into it with a Mustang so when I finally stomped on it I blew him away but as soon as I let off the gas the check engine light comes back on and is flashing this time along with the car shaking even more violently. Manage to get it home, read the codes, multiple misfires on 3 different cylinders along with number 7. I think this time the other cylinders misfired due to the gas diluted oil burning off at wide open throttle. I try turning the car over to see if it will start again which it does up until it stops on its own as if the starter ran out of power. Tried to turn it over with a wrench the next day and it wouldn't budge.
If I had checked my oil or hooked up the computer to the car to read pressures I would of seen that I was just dumping gas into the intake and eventually going to the oil pan whenever I had the car on but engine off. Expensive lesson but I am getting off easy since I can do the repair myself and I was going to do the head bolts anyways. Just had to spend 1k to get a new rod and piston.

i had identical symptoms but ended up being o2 sensors. Had my car towed right away though. Interesting how symptoms are the same for both. Wondering how I'd be able to tell the difference before doing damage. When it was the 02 sensors just said the cylinders that misfired.

Are you saying that the oem injectors have caused hydrolocked engines without porting them? Or is that specific to a ported oem injector only?

On my old boosted Acura TL, i was running ported injectors from the acura rdx. Stock injectors rated at 450cc which were ported to 980cc for my application. There was just no other option at the time and nothing aftermarket would fit. Always made me nervous but never had problems with them. Miss that car lol

I wouldnt be worried about running the bosch injectors for this kit.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c7afb956f4.jpg

Came across this kit. Anyone know anything about it? I certainly don't like the idea of having to swap my fuel pump

http://vrpspeed.com/index.php?route=product%2Fproduct&path=85_120&prod uct_id=327

Obviously due your DD but as long as access is not extreme, replacing FP is not as big a deal as it sounds. Upgrading FP and Injectors for E85 is pretty standard on FI cars - given c63 NA, I can see(guess) why the EC FF kit doesn't call for it and am curious if this system was developed more for AM FI? Given the price, probably worth a call to the company for details and I'm curious about what/why there's a new system announced? I'm coming from a ForesterXT build with a 335is one on pause in search for a C63(wish I would have driven one earlier) and the pricing on this system is more in-line to what I'm use to, but I wouldn't use it for free w/o some sort of track record, which I've yet to find?
I'll post if I find some info... please do the same.

First Ill say I bought this kit, for $400 I just had to check it out. Talked to the company, injectors/fuel pump only for the 55. C63 without headers, no need to upgrade.

My experience:
I got the kit in and they sent the wrong harness. emailed and waited a few day then sent a follow up email and they replied they would send the correct adapters. That was a week ago and I have not received them. They are in VA, im in NC, 2 days max to ship USPS.
The boxes are big and there are 2. I think they will fit on top of the fuse box under the hood (test fit and seem to work fine)
App support is only for Andriod.
E85 percent detector that gets installed on the fuel line. They do not include a connector so you will have to cut that stainless steel line.
eFlexfuel is the manufacturer and comes with their branding (not VRP). You can find out more about it online.
Is Eurocharged kit better? not sure. Install wise I would definitely say EC is easier, but at a $1,000 price.

In the end I decided to cut and solder the connections since I dont know if the MLK injector adapters will ever show up. I got half of them done last night and will be doing the other side tonight.

I had also planned on buying the headers on their site, again considerably less expensive but after the lack of communication and wrong parts being sent this time I dont think I will use this company anymore.

If you want plug and play, Eurocharged is the kit for you.

PM me and I'll make you a good deal on a set of ARH headers :)

Thanks!

Dave

Ive done fuel pumps on my prior boosted cars but I wonder why this particular kit requires a fuel pump upgrade and EC doesnt. Even though the pumps on their site are a tad above 100$, seems like a unneccesary upgrade considering the EC kit doesnt need one. Unless they designed it more for the s/c applcation of the e55 which I could see a larger pump being neccessary and allowing more room without maxing out the oem pump.

Good info thanks.

All VRP does is copies items from other vendors. He has no clue about how things works.

From what I understood from a post I saw on facebook is that they lowered the price of that kit because they have a new one coming out soon that will be pretty similar to the eurocharged kit.

Thanks for the info. Might consider that kit if the group buy doesn't go through...

You can see the new kit on eflexfuel.com. Just smaller controller box. It’s the kit they’re selling, like I said it doesn’t say VRP anywhere on it. It’s labeled eFlexfuel.

So i received my kit and just wanted to share my initial experience. Did the install on Sunday with myself and a friend. It was just the kit and no injectors and we followed the YouTube video and some instructions we found online, install time took about 2 hours. Hardest part was unplugging the factor injector connectors as there's not much room to get at it. The car started up just fine and had about 3 gallons of 91 octane in it and we went to go fuel up on E85. Filled up with about 12 gallons of E85 and using the ethanol app i got a reading around 65% ethanol went driving around a bit and the car felt good, I especially noticed the change in throttle response. Parked the car for about 2 hours then was ready to go out for dinner when i started the car and it started idling really rough and shaking. A CEL appeared and when i ran the code it was P0301 misfire cylinder 1.

I gave Dave a call (Thanks Dave for taking my call in the evening on a weekend!) and he told me to do the following checks.

2009 C63 AMG 106K Miles

1.Check my wiring
2.Check spark plugs
3.Check coils and move them to another bank and see if the misfire follows it
4.Try different connectors on the harness and see if it follows.

I tried all of those and the issue is still persistent. I did notice that the car reeks of fuel so my guess might be a faulty injector thats stuck wide open and i did check and all my injectors are Q3s.
What i don't get is the car was running fine before hand and i just did a oil analysis that didn't note a concerning amount of fuel in the oil so was it just coincidence that it decided to fail?

I'm trying to source some injectors right now that are not crazy expensive.

If anyone has any ideas please chime in.

Wish I had some input but I really dont. I hate chalking things up to a coincidence. So you switched coil packs and still the only cylinder with a misfire is 1? Not the best idea but if that's the case, rotate the cylinder 1 injector and leave everything else the same. Clear the code and start the car. Maybe if you get a mis on the new cylinder you can say the injector took a sh*t

Yes I switched the coil and spark plugs to another cylinder but the misfire was still on cylinder 1. I'll give moving the injector over to see if the fault moves as well.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Did you notice any fluid sitting in the well where cylinder 1 injector was? From what it looked like on my cylinder heads that it looked like the gas level almost rose into the intake manifold. Plus if it is stuck wide open then all your fuel pressure in the line will empty out into it once you turn the engine off. Hope you get it figured out!

I haven't had a chance to pull the injectors yet but i did notice the spark plug was dripping with fuel. Going to change the injector once i can find one for a reasonable price. Also i heard its best to do an oil change in case there is a lot of fuel in it. Any tip on how to clear the cylinder chamber of any residual gas?

I had a vacuum pump so I when I pulled the spark plugs I put the hose in the hole and sucked out any fluid that was in there. Also when I drained the oil I got about 12 quarts out of it from all the gas that had been going into it. This might be a good chance to get all your injectors cleaned for ****s and giggles.

Why risk damaging your engine or waste any more of your time over this. Just take it all off and send it back to EC to figure out. Didnt someone bend a rod recently because of a stuck injector? If your car was fine before, and it’s not now, there’s your answer I would think.

You can do it this way if you like:

When the engine is COLD...Remove all the plugs, AND remove all the ignition coils. Lay a towel/shop rags over the opened plug wells. Crank the engine with the starter a few times to clear the cylinder. I support doing an oil change as the oil may (and is likely) contaminated with fuel. I would also recommend doing all the injectors. They have a lot of miles on em', wouldn't be a bad idea.

Thanks

Dave

Yeah, that was me. Ended up being a silver lining because my old head bolts were looking a little rough.

Just wanted to give an update on my the issues i was running into.

Working with Dave we deduced that the harness that came with the kit may of been the issue. A new harness was sent over and over the weekend i did the install. So far so good as the I am no longer getting anymore misfires and the car is running great. I've put about 40 miles on it so far but will report back once i get a couple hundred more. Big thanks to Dave for helping me get the issue situated.

Good to hear.
And good to see Eurocharged helping you find the fault, and replacing the faulty part.

Unfortunately I think I'm waiting till early spring to install mine

Yep - that would work just fine :)

Thanks

Dave

It is not available from Eurocharged Houston. You get the E85 kit from Eurocharged Austin. Try:

Eurocharged Austin
7 Applegate Circle #400
Round Rock, Texas 78665
sales@eurochargedatx.com
512-777-2799

Business Hours:
Monday to Friday- 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM
Saturday- By appointment
Sunday- Closed

Sorry for the noob question. So if I have a completely stock car, all I need is the V6 tune and the flex fuel kit?

Nah man. No tune needed. The info is sort of scattered throughout the 14 pages as well as this other thread on the group buy:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...group-buy.html

And when I asked whether there was a webpage which consolidated all the product info, I was directed here:
https://www.advancedfueldynamics.com...-c63-amg-m156/

I checked out my E85 price yesterday at the only pump in town. $2.57 vs $3.37 for 91 Shell. Can't wait.

Curious how you guys with the kit mounted the harness? At first, I had the new harness/plugs zip tied right on top of the factory harness. It looked clean but when I put the insulation pad on top of the harness, it sat too high and the airbox wasnt able to snap in. I removed everything and tried my best to get the new harness underneath the factory harness and fuel rail. It was a ***** to get everything underneath and not cause the wires to have sharp bends.

Only thing Im slighty concerned about is having the wires/plug touch the intake manifold because of the heat. No wires are touching the head or valve cover. I dont think the manifold heat would be a problem but Im not sure....

Also, since I upgraded to the 550 injectors, I noticed my fuel trims have gotten really high. Anyone else notice that?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...089f6447f8.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...bed787dc24.jpg

How come the kit no longer includes injectors, but is still the same price?

Advanced fuel dynamics told me that I need retune to compensate for the larger injectors. I never read anything like that in this thread.

I wish there was another GB on this, taking into account that the price is still $1600 but they've dropped the injector service. As I understand the history, the original price of $1600 didn't really include injectors, but included sending you back refurbished injectors that had been opened up. So there was a core charge. Then they decided non-LTH cars didn't require the refurb'd injectors so they dropped the core, left the price at $1600, and off we go. I've had a lot of questions since the "other" E85 kit gained some popularity and AFD has answered all my questions.

The kit is $1,500 shipped, and at the moment it's $480 for injectors... This had been the price for a very long time. The problems with the injectors are well documented and not sure why folks would even want to use them knowing the downsides...

You DON'T need a retune for 550cc, we have not retuned a single car for injectors. So long as the car is in perfect mechanical shape - it will be perfect and run great.

Thanks!

Dave

I have MBH headers, so don't I need injectors?

If you have headers, you will need the bigger injectors.

Yes you do

I'm not understanding the confusion with the pricing

Thanks

Dave

hey bentz69 two quick things:

1. The insulation pads did not fit on mine.
2. I am not back into the car until Tuesday, I can get some readings to compare

I got the pads on there and the airboxes sitting in the correct spot (snapped in to all 3 mounts) on both sides. Im just not sure how I feel about having the harness on the underside of the fuel rail. I liked it better when the flex harness/plugs were all directly on top of the oem harness. They weren't touching the fuel rail, intake manifold or valve cover. But when the flex harness is on top of the oem harness you cant use the pad.

IDK how much heat that pad actually absorbs and prevents heat transfer to the airbox.

The fact that it basically costs $500 more for the same thing now is a little confusing tbh.

I like how this next gen of c63 owners questions everything especially price. Pretty much, "you drop the price or we ain't buying it." Their response, "Well you gotta pay to play." Our response "Yeah, we'll pay and play elsewhere then."

Well my main problem is that the price inexplicably went up $500 for a kit who's competitor is half the price with what seems to be not much practical difference, if any.

Some of these cars are hitting their 10 year mark this year mark, and are selling for around $20-25k. I don't think it's out of pocket to wonder why the M156 is still being taxed so hard.

I mean look at ESS. They come out with the same rotor pack Wiestec uses, with, by all accounts, a better housing, and it's priced about 1/3 less. But then parts from other companies start going up in price?

Dont get me wrong, its a good thing. Vendors do need to realize the current owners paid $25k-$40k instead of $60k-$80k. With that in mind they won't simply bend over and take the AMG tax with a smile. Which is why there are new offerings with similar and in some cases better tech at a much more appealing price point.

Still not understanding the "$500 bump"... Was $1,600 for kit w/ ported stock injectors (see post #1)... that was over a year ago when it first came out for "intro" pricing, and before we even had 5 kits installed on cars. Now, with about 150 kits sold - it's $1,980 shipped with BRAND NEW injectors. All controllers now have integrated bluetooth as well. Last time I checked, $1980 - $1600 is $380, not $500. :confused:

It's $380 more, and comes with better injectors, and bluetooth. Any way you slice it, it's AT LEAST +30WHP, +30WTQ, for something you can install yourself in 2 hours or less, and all you gotta to is use E85! It saves you a little money on fuel (most of the time). HP/$ is very good, much better than longtubes that's for dang sure...

I have basically been giving the injectors away... go find me a better deal on these...good luck, and as of this morning, because of a very recent price increase @ Bosch for them, injectors now cost $775, just verified that this morning :mercy:

Thanks

Dave

Any chance of another GB, with both options?

Depends on the interest for a GB, not sure we have enough folks. If 10 or so can be rounded up we can do it, but its the ones with headers that are gonna be sad... because the injector thing is kinda crazy... my cost on them pretty much doubled, so unless that settles down a bit I probably wont even sell injectors any longer. Bruce @ Five-0 Motorsports is probably close to the cheapest price at this point...

Thanks!

Dave

@Dave, you guys have anymore injectors in stock? Or is fiveo the only option?

Are you going to start a another GB?

I am sorry I didn't respond to this before. I regret to inform you that I am out of injectors.

Thanks!

Dave

You could put me down in the GB for the kit

Bueller...Bueller?

I would be interested in a group buy, I do have long tube headers lol...

Is running E98 or any concentration higher then e85 ok/safe?

https://vpracingfuels.com/product/x98/

For those that daily drive the car, has anyone run through a full tank of e85 (until the gas light pops) with a majority of the miles being highway/cruising AND not beating on the car?

I wanted to see how many miles I could get before the light came on while doing a 85% highway driving (55-80mph) and 15% city. Got 210 miles. Thought it would be better then that

Yep - Any mix is safe, we've done lots of testing with different brands of fuel.up to E100. I will say though that during that testing - we didn't see much in the way of gains using a higher percentage. We get the best results and best track times simply using Valero pump E85.

Thanks!

Dave

Bentz69,
Yes I have done this as well with very similar results to yours. The fact is when using ethanol your engine requires 30% more fuel to create the same amount of energy for the combustion process. This is what all these kits are doing. Monitoring the ethanol content into the engine and then increasing the duty cycle (adding the compensating amount of Ethanol) to create the equivalent amount of energy from that explosion. The comment near the beginning of this post stating that your MPG should stay around the same as 93 octane if you drive the car normal is completely false. Driving like a grandma your engine still needs the added 30% of fuel. 0.30 x 285 (Miles to a tank on 93) = 85.5. So on 100% ethanol you should get 199.5 miles to a tank. You ran 85% ethanol so 210 miles per tank is right at what should be expected. Also, as far as being a more economical way of fueling your car its probably not, it is more eco-friendly though. My personal experience is that it is actually more expensive to use ethanol vs gasoline, but this is a trade off, power vs MPG.

Dtorre you just confirmed my suspicions. I almost knew for a fact it would be more expensive to run e85. As far as fuel economy, I get about 200 miles on shell 91 the way I usually drive the car. So on e85 what would I be looking 130-160 miles per tank. Add that to the fact I would have to buy overpriced injectors because of the headers. No thanks.

I am interested in a group buy without injectors. Don't have headers, and probably wont be spending $3000 for a set for a while. What would the group buy price be without injectors? And if we cant get a group buy together, how much to just buy the flex fuel setup direct from eurocharged?

You may have not noticed but this thread is for a GB that ended a while ago. Cyra had a GB that ended last week. If you cant find one I could sell you mine as Im not sure I will install mine if I cant find injectors at a reasonable price.

I get about 180-190 miles per tank on E85, that also includes a pretty heavy foot.

Thats not too bad. I really drive this car hard so I was expecting horrid fuel economy. I might install it after all if I find those elusive 550cc injectors, at a reasonable price, that is.

Do Eurocharged not sell the injectors anymore?

Negative! And other vendor sells them for nearly double. So it might sit in my garage for a while or I'll sell it. Either way I'm pretty happy with my current list of mods. V7, Rows, ARH catted headers, Magic Spacers, Bigger Green Filters, Magic Pulley and factory LSD.

Well that sucks. I was thinking of getting the Eurocharged Flex Fuel package as my next mod. But I have headers, so I need the injectors.
I'm in South Africa, so would prefer to buy a complete package from one vendor, to save on import and shipping costs.
Guess I need to look for another mod.

PMd

*****************NEWS FLASH***************** Just for yucks I looked into the injectors today and they seem to be available for a somewhat reasonable price again. I will do $470/shipped for a set. Brand new genuine Bosch 550's. Lemme know if you need them :)

Thanks!

Dave

P.S. Gonna copy and paste this on the other GB as well.

How much are you trying to let the kit go for?

Well then you know what to do Dave, send over the PayPal invoice. :y

E85 kit has landed! Stoked to get it on the car. NOTICE!!!!- BE CAREFUL opening your boxes guys! My wiring loom was packed on the top of the box, and I have an tendency to use very sharp knives to cut packages (Shameless plug for Spyderco here) ...thankfully I did not nick the loom. This PSA has concluded.