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After searching the forum, I can't find much information regarding those pads. I guess it's not a popular brand in USA/Europe but more in Asia.
I have been recommended the Dixcel Z type from guys I met at the track and they saw how fast the OEM brembo pads was fading and melting on the rotors.
My next trackday coming beginning of next week, I installed the pads on all 4 wheels last weekend so they have some time to bed in.
I also bleed the brake fluid with Motul RBF600 and found a nasty bubble in a front caliper. My mercedes shop already bleed 2 months ago, but i guess they used only one plug of the 2 from the front calipers. Bad guys... Now the bite and pedal pressure/feeling is much better.
On the road, the feeling on the dixcel Z is less progressive compared to OEM and also more noisy in front (they have no backing plate in front), I can feel the friction generated by the pads is higher on the rotor. Good sign for the upcoming track
During bedding in, i get a similar smell as if i was using a diamond cutting hand-tool. Didn't have that with OEM pads.
According to Dixcel Z spec, the pads can hold up to 850 degree Celcius. here the link to their page: http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/pad/pad_z.html
I'll share more after the trackday
Quick question: the rotor (OEM) drills were all stuck with pads dust so i dig them free with a screwdriver. Is this issue common? if the holes are stuck, how does it affect the brake performance?
Yes, this is a common occurrence. Drilled rotors are designed to expel heat and gasses that build up between the pads and rotors. If those holes are sealed or clogged, nothing is going to get through them. Essentially, this taking away from one of the only functions of drilled rotors. As you know, pads emit dust. So, it's typical for the drilled holes to become clogged with brake dust. Taking a screwdriver, pick or pipe cleaner to clean the holes would be a good idea.
So here is the follow up regarding the Dixcel Z pads:
I ran 3 sessions of 15 minutes with 3-4 hot laps for each. The long straight on Shanghai F1 track allows to reach 240-250 km/h and then hard braking to a 50-60 km/h 180 degree turn.
The pads performed better than the original OEM Brembo, I could push my braking point 50 meters further (now 200m) and have better feeling in the consistency over the hole session.
Seems like those pads can bear a higher temperature as my calipers are now totally golden even with a cool down lap before the end of each session.
The wear under track condition is about half compared to OEM.
So it's a positive feedback, but still not as good as I would expect: The disks still have too much pads deposit on them and the rotor drills are now filled again with pads dust.
So I will consider Racing Brake Black series upgrade in the future to really be able to push the braking performance as I would like.
On the road, it's not bad. Bite is good but it sometimes squeal under specific conditions. Squeal doesn't bother me much as it's just sometimes and I tend to choose performance over comfort.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Never mind the dust in the holes... look at the size of the cracks. Those rotors are shot and you need to replace them ASAP. And, if you're going to track the car, stay away from cross-drilled rotors - they look cool but do absolutely nothing except for weakening the metal.
Your discs are worse than mine for the cracks !
Before your most recent track day did your discs have the cracks in them? Or was this purely from the most recent one?
How worn were the docs prior to this one?
I had to replace mine anyway but did one track day and one high speed event and they were totally shot after the track day and doubley on the high speed event
I put new pads on with the olds discs and they were shot after th track day
I have the PPP discs also which re suppose to help with the heat?
Disks cracks are usual when tracking car like the C63. During braking, there is a mass transfer to the front, and front brakes suffer most.
I already had some cracks before this trackday, but of course the cracks become worse after each trackday. Attached a photo of the disks before the trackday.
Disks are checked in 2 ways: the thickness of disk, for all who don't track the car (mines are still good at 35mm) and the cracks. The usual saying for cracks is that little cracks are fine and rotor should be replaced when cracks reach the outer diameter, or big cracks that links between all drills.
I know that I will change my disks soon, but I'm still thinking of an alternative solution before buying the Racing Brake BS upgrade. I saw the PPP 2 pieces disks but i'm not sure if they can hold up much better than the 1 piece. I found Dixcel had the external rotor to replace the OEM 2 piece disks but the issue is that I don't have the hats. So it means I'll have to purchase the OEM 2 piece disk first or find someone who has the hats for sell... not easy to find
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Brakes are one thing that you don't want to worry or even think about for one minute on track, especially if you frequent high speed ones like Shanghai. Just get the BBK, or at the very least the RB same replacement size rotors, and be done with it. The steel is harder and more durable, and the price is comparable to OEM. If you go to another OE or OE-replacement solution, not manufactured specifically for hard track duty, you're going to run into the same issues. Just my 0.02.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
On cross-drilled brake rotors, *minor* surface stress cracks on the rotors are acceptable (especially around the holes) with heavy track use. However, in your case some cracks are quite deep while others actually connect the holes, both of which are a recipe for disaster. The OEM rotors are not up to the task of repeatedly slowing down a 4000 lb car from very high speeds during track use, especially when combined with aftermarket, aggressive pads. Get yourself a set of RBs in the OEM size if you are running the OEM 18" wheels (which yours appear to be), or alternatively upgrade to 19" wheels and the BS BBK. The weight savings alone are probably worth the cost, never mind the increased hardness of the steel and heat tolerance. The OEM P30 2-piece rotors are just as bad - they're a little lighter than the one piece you have, but will also crack just as easily and will furthermore likely warp (especially with aggressive pads) after only a few track days.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." - Mario Andretti
Doug - Going racing in 10 days. Can't afford a track coach so I picked up a t-shirt with your sig on it instead. I'm figuring that its frequent reminders should be worth at LEAST 5 seconds . . .
Clif
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Clif - there's only two things you need to remember: (1) stay safe - as in don't compromise on safety gear, and (2) enjoy and have tons of fun!!!
I don't know what series you'll be racing with, but especially when you're starting out no amount of coaching would be a substitute for on-track experience. If you have a chance, think about renting a seat in a ChumpCar race or three with an existing team. The cars are cheap but quite capable (most of them anyway), and half of the drivers are pros... in other words, you can afford to drive at the limit and take risks that would be prohibitively expensive in any other vehicle or series, and at the same time learn some real race craft from the pros. It's endurance racing so with a decent team (i.e. car) you'll get a lot of actual seat time. Once you're lapping at a comparable pace with the majority of the field, then you can sign up for racing lessons and actually get some value out of it. And yeah, if you don't have an off-track excursion or two and/or make contact with anything, you're definitely NOT going fast enough!!
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
P.S. As for reminders, I think it was Jasonoff that previously posted the following ultimate go-fast tip... put it on the steering wheel, the gauges (they're basically useless) or a corner of the windshield:
Thanks guys, I hear your advices and I know that I need to replace those rotors.
Racing Brake will definitively be my final solution, but i'm planning this for later including RB Black series upgrade + rolling or extending fenders + new 19 inches forged wider wheels. As it's a total budget and I have other investments with higher priorities right now, it will wait for a while.
I won't go with standard size RB now because just considering the shipping cost from USA to China, it's not worth it if I go the total BS upgrade route after few months.
So I ordered a set of 1 piece FP disks from Dixcel, that according to their advertisement is designed for track day / race use: http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/rotor/rotor_fcr.html
As i'm satisfied about the pads behavior, i'll give a try to those disks. Unfortunately they didn't have the FS version (slotted) available, the FP disk is plain. I'm therefore thinking to machine the slots, and now looking for a professional able to do that in Shanghai.
This Dixcel FP/FS could be also an alternative for guys here who have the OEM 2 piece rotors, as they sell the outer rotor for the C63.
I will share more after install and next track day.
Ever seen a brake disc fail on track? Keep pushing those old cracked rotors and you might not have a car to throw a BBK on. You may even be dead. Just replace with some new stock rotors for a couple hundred bucks until you have money for the upgrade. I had similar rotors and got told at tech inspection "I can pass you but do you really want to die?"
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
When I was at WGI the other week, one of the cars had a rotor failure. It literally exploded and took out that entire corner of the car, and sent it into a wall. It was ugly.
Like I said before - you don't want to even think about your brakes. That's the one and only thing that you have to have complete 100% confidence in, otherwise you really shouldn't be out there.
Update to share about those rotors: i bought Dixcel FP as i couldn't find FS type available. The old OEM rotors suffered a lot during last trackday.
Whereas the FP type is advertised as "plain" disk, it actually came with drills, with similar pattern as OEM rotor. So I installed those new disks with Endless MX72 pads that I still had in my garage.
Hopefully the heat treatment on FP disk will help them to hold better than the OEM on track, but I still have doubt due to the drills (I was looking for slotted only, but it was only available as external rotor using the OEM 2 pieces hat that I don't have... If anyone has old hats please let me know).
Update after 2 trackdays:
Dixcel disk is finished, it is cracked the same way as my previous OEM rotor. The lifetime was about half the OEM rotor...
Overall feedback is that it is not better than the OEM disk.
My final target will be the upgrade to BS using racing brake option. This will happen next year.
Waiting for that upgrade, I just ordered the OEM 2 piece disk (not the 1.5 piece) and a set of FERODO DSUNO pads. Friend using this pad on an M3 has good feedback.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
I used to run Ferodo DSUNOs on my track rat and was generally quite happy with them (I have switched to Hawk DTC-50s for reasons which do not apply to the C63 with the OEM calipers). They are a very good track pad with a consistent (if somewhat low) Mu and easy to modulate.
I used to run Ferodo DSUNOs on my track rat and was generally quite happy with them (I have switched to Hawk DTC-50s for reasons which do not apply to the C63 with the OEM calipers). They are a very good track pad with a consistent (if somewhat low) Mu and easy to modulate.
DTC 70s were my favorite pad on the Z06. Then again, I never drove that much on the street. Changing pads becomes tedious lol.
The combo of OEM performance disk + Ferodo DSuno is really great, combined with Pirelli Trofeo R, I could save consistent 2-3 seconds on laptimes. The feeling of the DSuno is very good and allow a very good control of braking power. They also hold up very well with high temperature and don't melt like snow under sun (OEM, Dixcel Z, Endless MX72 were all melting very fast when hot). Their bite is not strong, but I like it this way. Even for road use, they offer better feeling and power at first brake action versus the Dixcel and Endless. And price wise, I can source them for cheaper than all others
So I'm very happy with that setup and will keep it that way.
I will now check for alternative for tires, the Trofeo R is very nice but the treadwear is too poor, maybe Michelin Cup 2 will be better compromise performance VS wear. I also checked the PS4S but it's not available yet in 18", only 19"
Any recommendation for tires?
05-03-2017, 10:21 PM
