When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
First and foremost, I drive a 2015 w204 c63 507 with eurocharged v6, kleeman LTH(supersprint, 2nd cat and res delete into agency power valvetronic mufflers. I have carbon fiber intake scoops(aesthetics, charcoal delete and AFE dry filters.it's my first time at the dyno and I understand there are differences between dyno systems e.g.: dynojet vs superflow. I went to Westech performance (not westeic) and got my car dynoed with a superflow system. The results were well disappointing. 405.3lb of torque and 407 whp. Am I missing something because I'm basically at stock power with all these mods and work I've put into this car
Last edited by JQuala; 07-02-2017 at 03:22 AM.
Reason: Pictures
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
What was the "before" dyno? Because without that, there's zero way of knowing what's going on from this.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
I'm sorry this was my first dyno run I never had a baseline. I know I'm an idiot. I sent my dyno results to Jerry over at Eurocharged. The people at westech said my AFR was normal. I specifically asked if I was too rich or lean. I'm basically making less than a stock 507?
What was the "before" dyno? Because without that, there's zero way of knowing what's going on from this.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
What is that ? when I spoke to the professionals at the dyno they reassured me that l fuel and air ratio are just too normal. It always felt a little rich after my headers work l it always felt a little rich after my headers were installed
I sent jerry the files maybe he can rectify the afr. With LTH on its own should put me well beyond stock. Can running too rich really hinder me that much?
I also read up that I was on a mustang dyno that puts out numbers that are way lower than dynojets. Average difference of 60-65 so 467-471whp sounds about where I should be at or am I just justifying and trying to make myself feel better
What is that ? when I spoke to the professionals at the dyno they reassured me that l fuel and air ratio are just too normal. It always felt a little rich after my headers work l it always felt a little rich after my headers were installed
The "professionals" you spoke to are flat out wrong. Thankfully, they aren't tuning your car. You are VERY rich for a NA setup - even with forced induction and over 14 psi, I'm comfortable seeing 11.5-12:1 afr. On my Lotus which will be pushing into the 24+ psi range, we'll be targeting 11.5-11.8:1. Hopefully EC can straighten you out there. That should be a good start. Until you do that, no telling what's going on.
2015 C63 AMG Edition 507 coupe, 2017 Range rover sport Auto, 2008 dodge ram 1500 SLT
Originally Posted by JQuala
I'm sorry this was my first dyno run I never had a baseline. I know I'm an idiot. I sent my dyno results to Jerry over at Eurocharged. The people at westech said my AFR was normal. I specifically asked if I was too rich or lean. I'm basically making less than a stock 507?
Aside from ur AFR, I see you have a set of valved mufflers. Were the valves open when you did the dyno run? You will see a huge HP difference with valves closed and open. At least I did when I dyno'd mine.
all dyno's being different, I'd like to think you should be seeing at least around 450 WHP with your set up.
Spend nearly 10k on mods to find myself at stock power haha
Originally Posted by jd_hinks
Aside from ur AFR, I see you have a set of valved mufflers. Were the valves open when you did the dyno run? You will see a huge HP difference with valves closed and open. At least I did when I dyno'd mine.
all dyno's being different, I'd like to think you should be seeing at least around 450 WHP with your set up.
That's what I was hoping for. I read somewhere that you add 140 to a mustang dyno for your bhp and then multiply by 0.85 for whp on a typical dyno jet. Which puts me around 463whp. Was hoping I was getting close to that elusive 500whp. Again it's my first dyno run and wish I had done a baseline.
I did make sure the valves were open. S+ with traction control off. They did mention that they never had a c63 roll through there. Which is odd because motor trend does "modding" version of myth busters on YouTube there. It's westech performance group if anyone is interested. I set an appointment up before I found out their facility is somewhat well known in the American muscle scene. They go into a lot of detail about running rich can affect power as much as 50+. So I thought they knew their ****. They looked over AFR and was like with bolt ons and stock engine this looks about right. Not too rich or lean. Suggested I look into NOS when the dude saw me look at my graph in disbelief. I think imma stay as natural as a natural aspirated car can be until I drop a supercharger in there down the line.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
No dude, seriously just STOP TALKING. It's not about dyno math or adding whp or you need nitrous or anything like that.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick measuring contest, it's really pathetic. The only good use for a dyno is to ascertain before/after changes of modifications. That's it. Ask any professional.
So stop worrying about seeing "500whp" and get your car sorted, because it's pretty ****ed at the moment, and it has absolutely nothing to do with dyno operator error or difference between types or that you need more modzzzz to unlock it. Just get the tune sorted first.
What could be causing it to run so rich with no timing advance? If it's not the tune what else could it be do you think?
My initial guess would be the load on the dyno is too high. This happened to me yesterday while tuning a C63S with Pure Turbo upgrade. I accidentally turned the load up to 41 instead of 14 and the car lost TONS of power and the AFR was really rich. Put the load back to 14 and the AFR was back, the run didn't take too long (as long as it would on the street), and power was back.
This is why I wanted to see the STOCK run too. Having a before and after from the same dyno, same day is key. We all know it's a tuning tool and will help us see gains and could also help us understand when the dyno is the issue.
I saw this issue once before and it ended up being the high flow cats. They had already started to fail. That car made 360WHP tuned though so not really the same thing.
The OP just emailed me and is looking for another dyno shop. We will get him to test the stock vs. tuned and I can also custom tune if needed. We will get it sorted!
No dude, seriously just STOP TALKING. It's not about dyno math or adding whp or you need nitrous or anything like that.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick Just get the tune sorted first.
No I absolutely understand I'm running rich. Again, I wish I had a baseline reading to show you guys. I wasn't trying to be ignorant to the glaring issue obviously I would want to get this sorted out we just got a little off topic as aforementioned I don't intended to go with NOS the fact that it was Westechs only word of either advice or consolidence was highlighting their lack of experience with European cars. I believe Jerry was the first person I emailed even before creating this post. I do appreciate your input and am taking it seriously. So thank you for your effort. Also a big shout out to Jerry too. Always a stand up guy with a stand up product. I cast a few dyno emails out around the inland empire hopefully someone bites...turns out K&N is 7 minutes from me and has a dyno facility...
You guys are nuts if you think 12.5 @5900 rpm and 12.0@ 6500rpm is rich on a loaded dyno and a car without cats.
like wow this car is spot on almost perfect and goes from 14 lean and gets richer as the car hits red line. Having no cats will read richer also as there is no blockage for the gases to hit the air fuel meter.
also I'm willing to bet this was run 3? And the car will add fuel to save it from knocking north of 6500 rpms.
your car is fine op just find a dynojet so you can get a more apples to apples result
also looks like they let off the gas around 6700 or the car knocked and pulled timing and dumped fuel.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I run dedicated widebands, and I can tell you that the sweet spot for the EC tune at WOT in the higher RPM bands is in the 13.2-13.4 AFR range. It's been discussed here a million times, that's a fact.
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
I run dedicated widebands, and I can tell you that the sweet spot for the EC tune at WOT in the higher RPM bands is in the 13.2-13.4 AFR range. It's been discussed here a million times, that's a fact.
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
he is running lean all the way up to 6000rpms then starts to get richer. By 6500 he is at 12. And it hits the 11s after the pedal is let off or the car knocked at 6800 rpms.
do you honestly think going from 12.5 to 13.1 he will make 65whp?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by skratch77
he is running lean all the way up to 6000rpms then starts to get richer. By 6500 he is at 12. And it hits the 11s after the pedal is let off or the car knocked at 6800 rpms.
do you honestly think going from 12.5 to 13.1 he will make 65whp?
rich is 10s not 12s
No that's just wrong sorry. At his peak power at 6000rpm his AFR is 12.3. Too rich. Go look at YOUR AFR's and I guarantee you they're at least a point higher at peak power. And yes that makes a huge difference. This stuff is all in books and online and easily verifiable.
At 7k rpm I'm at 13.4. That's where it should be. At WOT mine starts rich in the lower rpms and then progressively leans out. 14.7 is normal for idle or cruising, never under load.
11's is for turbo cars. 10's isn't ideal for anything.
05-04-2017, 08:56 PM
