Superflower Dyno w/ v6 eurotune and mods
#1
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Superflow Dyno w/ v6 eurotune and mods
First and foremost, I drive a 2015 w204 c63 507 with eurocharged v6, kleeman LTH(supersprint, 2nd cat and res delete into agency power valvetronic mufflers. I have carbon fiber intake scoops(aesthetics, charcoal delete and AFE dry filters.it's my first time at the dyno and I understand there are differences between dyno systems e.g.: dynojet vs superflow. I went to Westech performance (not westeic) and got my car dynoed with a superflow system. The results were well disappointing. 405.3lb of torque and 407 whp. Am I missing something because I'm basically at stock power with all these mods and work I've put into this car
Last edited by JQuala; 07-02-2017 at 03:22 AM. Reason: Pictures
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What was the "before" dyno? Because without that, there's zero way of knowing what's going on from this.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-04-2017 at 09:07 PM.
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I'm sorry this was my first dyno run I never had a baseline. I know I'm an idiot. I sent my dyno results to Jerry over at Eurocharged. The people at westech said my AFR was normal. I specifically asked if I was too rich or lean. I'm basically making less than a stock 507?
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It might be a good AFR on a turbo car, but not on a naturally aspirated one. Way off. Peak power is made in the low 13's.
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Time advance? Where to go from here
What was the "before" dyno? Because without that, there's zero way of knowing what's going on from this.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
You are running MASSIVELY rich though if that chart is correct. At WOT at the higher RPMs your AFR should be in the low 13.x's. Yours just keep dropping from stoich which isn't right.
And no timing advance?
Ok, maybe you can tell from that. Your car is choking on gas. Your tune is ****ed.
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#8
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I did let jerry know
I sent jerry the files maybe he can rectify the afr. With LTH on its own should put me well beyond stock. Can running too rich really hinder me that much?
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Yes
#10
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I also read up that I was on a mustang dyno that puts out numbers that are way lower than dynojets. Average difference of 60-65 so 467-471whp sounds about where I should be at or am I just justifying and trying to make myself feel better
#11
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The "professionals" you spoke to are flat out wrong. Thankfully, they aren't tuning your car. You are VERY rich for a NA setup - even with forced induction and over 14 psi, I'm comfortable seeing 11.5-12:1 afr. On my Lotus which will be pushing into the 24+ psi range, we'll be targeting 11.5-11.8:1. Hopefully EC can straighten you out there. That should be a good start. Until you do that, no telling what's going on.
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BLKROKT (05-05-2017)
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I'm sorry this was my first dyno run I never had a baseline. I know I'm an idiot. I sent my dyno results to Jerry over at Eurocharged. The people at westech said my AFR was normal. I specifically asked if I was too rich or lean. I'm basically making less than a stock 507?
all dyno's being different, I'd like to think you should be seeing at least around 450 WHP with your set up.
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JQuala (05-05-2017)
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My car pulled 488 WHP on a mustang dyno with ~10% E85 and 94(0% ethonal)pump gas mix.
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Spend nearly 10k on mods to find myself at stock power haha
Aside from ur AFR, I see you have a set of valved mufflers. Were the valves open when you did the dyno run? You will see a huge HP difference with valves closed and open. At least I did when I dyno'd mine.
all dyno's being different, I'd like to think you should be seeing at least around 450 WHP with your set up.
all dyno's being different, I'd like to think you should be seeing at least around 450 WHP with your set up.
I did make sure the valves were open. S+ with traction control off. They did mention that they never had a c63 roll through there. Which is odd because motor trend does "modding" version of myth busters on YouTube there. It's westech performance group if anyone is interested. I set an appointment up before I found out their facility is somewhat well known in the American muscle scene. They go into a lot of detail about running rich can affect power as much as 50+. So I thought they knew their ****. They looked over AFR and was like with bolt ons and stock engine this looks about right. Not too rich or lean. Suggested I look into NOS when the dude saw me look at my graph in disbelief. I think imma stay as natural as a natural aspirated car can be until I drop a supercharger in there down the line.
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No dude, seriously just STOP TALKING. It's not about dyno math or adding whp or you need nitrous or anything like that.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick measuring contest, it's really pathetic. The only good use for a dyno is to ascertain before/after changes of modifications. That's it. Ask any professional.
So stop worrying about seeing "500whp" and get your car sorted, because it's pretty ****ed at the moment, and it has absolutely nothing to do with dyno operator error or difference between types or that you need more modzzzz to unlock it. Just get the tune sorted first.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick measuring contest, it's really pathetic. The only good use for a dyno is to ascertain before/after changes of modifications. That's it. Ask any professional.
So stop worrying about seeing "500whp" and get your car sorted, because it's pretty ****ed at the moment, and it has absolutely nothing to do with dyno operator error or difference between types or that you need more modzzzz to unlock it. Just get the tune sorted first.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-05-2017 at 07:56 AM.
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Ludedude (06-20-2017)
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Ok, well there you go.
What could be causing it to run so rich with no timing advance? If it's not the tune what else could it be do you think?
What could be causing it to run so rich with no timing advance? If it's not the tune what else could it be do you think?
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This is why I wanted to see the STOCK run too. Having a before and after from the same dyno, same day is key. We all know it's a tuning tool and will help us see gains and could also help us understand when the dyno is the issue.
I saw this issue once before and it ended up being the high flow cats. They had already started to fail. That car made 360WHP tuned though so not really the same thing.
The OP just emailed me and is looking for another dyno shop. We will get him to test the stock vs. tuned and I can also custom tune if needed. We will get it sorted!
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Ah ha, thanks for the explanation!
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Will report back with more dynofomation
No dude, seriously just STOP TALKING. It's not about dyno math or adding whp or you need nitrous or anything like that.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick Just get the tune sorted first.
YOU ARE RUNNING TOO RICH AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Timing advance is off as well. It's pretty obvious. An AFR in the 11's will KILL power on a naturally aspirated high-compression car like ours. It's a fact.
Just stop with the other excuses it's a distraction from the real problem. All you people that are so hung up on dyno numbers like it's some sort of dick Just get the tune sorted first.
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Yeah agree Jerry's awesome, you're in good hands
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You guys are nuts if you think 12.5 @5900 rpm and 12.0@ 6500rpm is rich on a loaded dyno and a car without cats.
like wow this car is spot on almost perfect and goes from 14 lean and gets richer as the car hits red line. Having no cats will read richer also as there is no blockage for the gases to hit the air fuel meter.
also I'm willing to bet this was run 3? And the car will add fuel to save it from knocking north of 6500 rpms.
your car is fine op just find a dynojet so you can get a more apples to apples result
also looks like they let off the gas around 6700 or the car knocked and pulled timing and dumped fuel.
what gas are you on?
like wow this car is spot on almost perfect and goes from 14 lean and gets richer as the car hits red line. Having no cats will read richer also as there is no blockage for the gases to hit the air fuel meter.
also I'm willing to bet this was run 3? And the car will add fuel to save it from knocking north of 6500 rpms.
your car is fine op just find a dynojet so you can get a more apples to apples result
also looks like they let off the gas around 6700 or the car knocked and pulled timing and dumped fuel.
what gas are you on?
Last edited by skratch77; 05-05-2017 at 02:20 PM.
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I run dedicated widebands, and I can tell you that the sweet spot for the EC tune at WOT in the higher RPM bands is in the 13.2-13.4 AFR range. It's been discussed here a million times, that's a fact.
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
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I run dedicated widebands, and I can tell you that the sweet spot for the EC tune at WOT in the higher RPM bands is in the 13.2-13.4 AFR range. It's been discussed here a million times, that's a fact.
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
11.x AFR is way too rich, car is choking on gas. That's a fact too.
Am I missing something here - what about a dyno specifically makes a super-rich AFR "spot-on"? Because in real-life driving conditions that's just way too rich. Also, what about the lack of timing advance?
do you honestly think going from 12.5 to 13.1 he will make 65whp?
rich is 10s not 12s
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At 7k rpm I'm at 13.4. That's where it should be. At WOT mine starts rich in the lower rpms and then progressively leans out. 14.7 is normal for idle or cruising, never under load.
11's is for turbo cars. 10's isn't ideal for anything.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-05-2017 at 03:05 PM.