Winter tire setup - 235/40 & 255/35 on 19"?
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2013 C63 AMG
Not if you're using the stock wheels. I think a staggered setup is better for the stock wheels and if you're not driving in deep snow.
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2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
If you want the same overall tire diameter for ABS and ESC, and you use a smaller diameter wheel, then logically you MUST have higher tire sidewalls. Higher sidewalls impair handling,plain and simple, because tire sidewalls, unlike wheels, FLEX under load.
This is why the highest performance models in a car maker's lineup, and also the high performance options packages always have larger wheels.
Dragracing is NOT the same as street or track handling. In dragracing, by definition, you are going in only a straight line, and there are no pavement variations. Your primary, almost ONLY objective is TRACTION. That's a very narrow objective compared to what the street and the road race track require. Your comparison is not meaningful in any way.
Jim G
This is why the highest performance models in a car maker's lineup, and also the high performance options packages always have larger wheels.
Dragracing is NOT the same as street or track handling. In dragracing, by definition, you are going in only a straight line, and there are no pavement variations. Your primary, almost ONLY objective is TRACTION. That's a very narrow objective compared to what the street and the road race track require. Your comparison is not meaningful in any way.
Jim G
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2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
how wide are the stock 19s? If they are 9 inches. 235 are fine square setup for optimal snow traction. If you don't care too much about that stock sizing its fine staggered setup.
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So, I did manage to finally find one thread about winter tire setup on 19" wheels - https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ls-winter.html
They were also discussing about 255/35/19 in the back, but nobody took the trigger to try that size. Since I want to get studded tires my options are much more limited than with regular winter tires and I'm still not sure which way to go:
1) 235/35/19 all around (rear tires will look a bit silly, but this should work fine)
2) 235/35/19 in the front and 255/35/19 in the back - will the rears fit? The sidewall will be taller, but I'm on stock suspension on OEM 19" wheels.
They were also discussing about 255/35/19 in the back, but nobody took the trigger to try that size. Since I want to get studded tires my options are much more limited than with regular winter tires and I'm still not sure which way to go:
1) 235/35/19 all around (rear tires will look a bit silly, but this should work fine)
2) 235/35/19 in the front and 255/35/19 in the back - will the rears fit? The sidewall will be taller, but I'm on stock suspension on OEM 19" wheels.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,219
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2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
So, I did manage to finally find one thread about winter tire setup on 19" wheels - https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ls-winter.html
They were also discussing about 255/35/19 in the back, but nobody took the trigger to try that size. Since I want to get studded tires my options are much more limited than with regular winter tires and I'm still not sure which way to go:
1) 235/35/19 all around (rear tires will look a bit silly, but this should work fine)
2) 235/35/19 in the front and 255/35/19 in the back - will the rears fit? The sidewall will be taller, but I'm on stock suspension on OEM 19" wheels.
They were also discussing about 255/35/19 in the back, but nobody took the trigger to try that size. Since I want to get studded tires my options are much more limited than with regular winter tires and I'm still not sure which way to go:
1) 235/35/19 all around (rear tires will look a bit silly, but this should work fine)
2) 235/35/19 in the front and 255/35/19 in the back - will the rears fit? The sidewall will be taller, but I'm on stock suspension on OEM 19" wheels.
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Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Long Island
'16 CLS63S
I'm looking for a "winter performance tire" not just a dedicated snow tire. That term "winter performance tire" sounds silly but is a good compromise for the different conditions that come with NY winter weather. I certainly cant use a summer tire in the winter because even with the smallest amount of snow Ill get stuck. Even using "all season" tires on this car doesn't make much sense because you give up so much grip in the summer itself. Two sets of tires without changing wheels is the best option given my scenario.
I would love for dunlop to make more sizes for the wintersport 3d tire but unfortunately they don't. Looks like Ill have to settle for a 235/35/19 all around. Id like something wider for the rear but the closest option is 255/35/19 and I don't think that is going to work.
There really aren't any other tire options for wide, low profile rear winter tire
This is what dunlop offers
edit...can anyone say for sure that increasing the rear sidewall by 5mm (30 to a 35) but keeping the stock 255 size will cause issues? Any experience here?
I would love for dunlop to make more sizes for the wintersport 3d tire but unfortunately they don't. Looks like Ill have to settle for a 235/35/19 all around. Id like something wider for the rear but the closest option is 255/35/19 and I don't think that is going to work.
There really aren't any other tire options for wide, low profile rear winter tire
This is what dunlop offers
edit...can anyone say for sure that increasing the rear sidewall by 5mm (30 to a 35) but keeping the stock 255 size will cause issues? Any experience here?
Last edited by bentz69; Oct 1, 2017 at 11:02 PM.
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From: Sidney, BC
2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
In all 9 MB cars I have bolted on winters to the recommendation was to stay stock on wall height on winters. Car rides better on 18s vs 19s.
Second, if you will put them on and take them off consider the negative effect on beads being stretched twice a year using one set of rims plus labour to dismount the tire and remount them and balance them. You can get decent wheels for winter use for about $167 per wheel so consider the cost equation and how long you will keep the car.
BA 225/40 R18 92 V XL
M+Si
8.0 J x 18 H2
Wheel offset: 1.77 in (45 mm)
— — — #
BA 235/40 R18 95 V XL
M+Si15
8.0 J x 18 H2
Wheel offset: 1.77 in (45 mm)
— — — #
FA
RA
235/40 R18 95 V XL
M+Si
255/35 R18 94 V XL
M+Si15
8.0 J x 18 H2
Wheel offset: 1.77 in (45 mm)
9.0 J x 18 H2
Wheel offset: 2.13 in (54 mm)
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
I'm looking for a "winter performance tire" not just a dedicated snow tire. That term "winter performance tire" sounds silly but is a good compromise for the different conditions that come with NY winter weather. I certainly cant use a summer tire in the winter because even with the smallest amount of snow Ill get stuck. Even using "all season" tires on this car doesn't make much sense because you give up so much grip in the summer itself. Two sets of tires without changing wheels is the best option given my scenario.
I would love for dunlop to make more sizes for the wintersport 3d tire but unfortunately they don't. Looks like Ill have to settle for a 235/35/19 all around. Id like something wider for the rear but the closest option is 255/35/19 and I don't think that is going to work.
There really aren't any other tire options for wide, low profile rear winter tire
This is what dunlop offers
edit...can anyone say for sure that increasing the rear sidewall by 5mm (30 to a 35) but keeping the stock 255 size will cause issues? Any experience here?
I would love for dunlop to make more sizes for the wintersport 3d tire but unfortunately they don't. Looks like Ill have to settle for a 235/35/19 all around. Id like something wider for the rear but the closest option is 255/35/19 and I don't think that is going to work.
There really aren't any other tire options for wide, low profile rear winter tire
This is what dunlop offers
edit...can anyone say for sure that increasing the rear sidewall by 5mm (30 to a 35) but keeping the stock 255 size will cause issues? Any experience here?
So, a 235mm wide tire with a "30" sidewall has a sidewall that NOMINALLY (not exactly) is .30 x 235 = 70.5mm high.
A 235 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 235 x .35 = 82.25 mm high.
A 255 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 255 x .35 = 89.25 mm high.
THESE are the numbers you need to look at when looking at the effect of a change in sidewall ratio.
Jim G
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2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
You said going from a 30 sidewall to a 35 is increasing by 5mm. It is not. The "30" and "35" have nothing to do with "mm". They axctually refer to the RATIO of tire sidewall height to tire width.
So, a 235mm wide tire with a "30" sidewall has a sidewall that NOMINALLY (not exactly) is .30 x 235 = 70.5mm high.
A 235 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 235 x .35 = 82.25 mm high.
A 255 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 255 x .35 = 89.25 mm high.
THESE are the numbers you need to look at when looking at the effect of a change in sidewall ratio.
Jim G
So, a 235mm wide tire with a "30" sidewall has a sidewall that NOMINALLY (not exactly) is .30 x 235 = 70.5mm high.
A 235 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 235 x .35 = 82.25 mm high.
A 255 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 255 x .35 = 89.25 mm high.
THESE are the numbers you need to look at when looking at the effect of a change in sidewall ratio.
Jim G
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From: Long Island
'16 CLS63S
You said going from a 30 sidewall to a 35 is increasing by 5mm. It is not. The "30" and "35" have nothing to do with "mm". They axctually refer to the RATIO of tire sidewall height to tire width.
So, a 235mm wide tire with a "30" sidewall has a sidewall that NOMINALLY (not exactly) is .30 x 235 = 70.5mm high.
A 235 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 235 x .35 = 82.25 mm high.
A 255 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 255 x .35 = 89.25 mm high.
THESE are the numbers you need to look at when looking at the effect of a change in sidewall ratio.
Jim G
So, a 235mm wide tire with a "30" sidewall has a sidewall that NOMINALLY (not exactly) is .30 x 235 = 70.5mm high.
A 235 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 235 x .35 = 82.25 mm high.
A 255 tire that has a "35" sidewall has a sidewall that is nominally 255 x .35 = 89.25 mm high.
THESE are the numbers you need to look at when looking at the effect of a change in sidewall ratio.
Jim G
So the question still stands......does anyone have experience increasing the sidewall on the 19" rear tire from a 30 to 35 series while retaining the oem sized 255?
Tire calculator shows the following....16.7% sidewall increase which throws off the speedo a tad. Is it enough to cause issues with the abs and esc? All I can find on this site is people saying it may cause issues with the abs and esc but nothing definitive.
I certainly don't know all the math with the tire stuff but Ill just put this out there to see if it makes sense. I'm currently using a 275/30/19 rear tire with no rubbing issues or electronic issues. When I compare the oem size of 255/30/19 to 275/30/19, it shows a 6.7% increase in sidewall and the speedo is off a little bit as well. This combo doesn't present problems for the abs etc..
I believe I read the reason why there may be problems with the electronics is because the speed sensors will see different speeds between the front and rears and potentially cause problems. There is already a variation when switching to a 275/30/19 from the stock 255/30/19 but no problems appear. Perhaps that variation falls within acceptation limits. So I sit here and wonder what the limit is?
Guess I may have to just try it and see what happens.
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
. . .I'm talking about the rear wheel only which uses 255/30/19 as the stock size. The winter tire option that I would like to use is 255/35/19.
So the question still stands......does anyone have experience increasing the sidewall on the 19" rear tire from a 30 to 35 series while retaining the oem sized 255?
Tire calculator shows the following....16.7% sidewall increase which throws off the speedo a tad. Is it enough to cause issues with the abs and esc? All I can find on this site is people saying it may cause issues with the abs and esc but nothing definitive.
. . .
I believe I read the reason why there may be problems with the electronics is because the speed sensors will see different speeds between the front and rears and potentially cause problems. There is already a variation when switching to a 275/30/19 from the stock 255/30/19 but no problems appear. Perhaps that variation falls within acceptation limits. So I sit here and wonder what the limit is?
So the question still stands......does anyone have experience increasing the sidewall on the 19" rear tire from a 30 to 35 series while retaining the oem sized 255?
Tire calculator shows the following....16.7% sidewall increase which throws off the speedo a tad. Is it enough to cause issues with the abs and esc? All I can find on this site is people saying it may cause issues with the abs and esc but nothing definitive.
. . .
I believe I read the reason why there may be problems with the electronics is because the speed sensors will see different speeds between the front and rears and potentially cause problems. There is already a variation when switching to a 275/30/19 from the stock 255/30/19 but no problems appear. Perhaps that variation falls within acceptation limits. So I sit here and wonder what the limit is?
In theory, a 255/35-19tire has sidewalls that are 0.35 x 255mm = 89.25mm high = 3.51 inches high. So, the overall height of the wheel/tire assembly is 26.02".
So the difference in overall height (i.e. overall diameter) between the 2 assembles is 1 inch.
That 1 inch is 1/25 = 4%.
Because circumference is = to pi x diameter, that same 4% difference applies to the circumference.
And 4% difference is what the ABS and ESC systems will see.
Looking now at your example of a different tire / wheel assembly that apparently works, the 275/30-19:
It's sidewall height is 0.30 x 275mm = 82.5mm = 3.25 inches. So, the overall height (and diameter) of the wheel/tire assembly is 3.25 + 19 + 3.25 = 25.5", or about 2% over the stock overall height (and diameter).
So, your proposed target assembly exactly doubles the change that the ABS and ESC systems see.
Is there an MB techie on the forum who knows what percent difference the ABS and/or ESC systems will tolerate between front and rear wheel speed?
Finally, note that ACTUAL tire dimensions do not precisely, or sometimes even closely at all, match the theory. For example, on a Harley forum I hang out at, users have discovered that the 240mm width Dunlop tire is not much smaller in width than a 250mm Metzler tire. If you check the Tire Rack spec sheets, you will be amazed at the variations in width and overall diameter of tires that are nominally "the same".
So, yeah, you may have to actually measure some MOUNTED tires . . .
Jim G
Last edited by JimGnitecki; Oct 2, 2017 at 12:30 PM.
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From: Sidney, BC
2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
I understand and appreciate the breakdown. But the comparison you used doesn't actually apply to what I would like to do. I'm talking about the rear wheel only which uses 255/30/19 as the stock size. The winter tire option that I would like to use is 255/35/19. I don't want a square setup with a 235 all around. Would rather retain a staggered setup.
So the question still stands......does anyone have experience increasing the sidewall on the 19" rear tire from a 30 to 35 series while retaining the oem sized 255?
Tire calculator shows the following....16.7% sidewall increase which throws off the speedo a tad. Is it enough to cause issues with the abs and esc? All I can find on this site is people saying it may cause issues with the abs and esc but nothing definitive.
I certainly don't know all the math with the tire stuff but Ill just put this out there to see if it makes sense. I'm currently using a 275/30/19 rear tire with no rubbing issues or electronic issues. When I compare the oem size of 255/30/19 to 275/30/19, it shows a 6.7% increase in sidewall and the speedo is off a little bit as well. This combo doesn't present problems for the abs etc..
I believe I read the reason why there may be problems with the electronics is because the speed sensors will see different speeds between the front and rears and potentially cause problems. There is already a variation when switching to a 275/30/19 from the stock 255/30/19 but no problems appear. Perhaps that variation falls within acceptation limits. So I sit here and wonder what the limit is?
Guess I may have to just try it and see what happens.
So the question still stands......does anyone have experience increasing the sidewall on the 19" rear tire from a 30 to 35 series while retaining the oem sized 255?
Tire calculator shows the following....16.7% sidewall increase which throws off the speedo a tad. Is it enough to cause issues with the abs and esc? All I can find on this site is people saying it may cause issues with the abs and esc but nothing definitive.
I certainly don't know all the math with the tire stuff but Ill just put this out there to see if it makes sense. I'm currently using a 275/30/19 rear tire with no rubbing issues or electronic issues. When I compare the oem size of 255/30/19 to 275/30/19, it shows a 6.7% increase in sidewall and the speedo is off a little bit as well. This combo doesn't present problems for the abs etc..
I believe I read the reason why there may be problems with the electronics is because the speed sensors will see different speeds between the front and rears and potentially cause problems. There is already a variation when switching to a 275/30/19 from the stock 255/30/19 but no problems appear. Perhaps that variation falls within acceptation limits. So I sit here and wonder what the limit is?
Guess I may have to just try it and see what happens.
The system will see the change in wheel speed as the rears will be running slower at the larger diameter of the 35s vs. the 30s. Remember circumference is Pi x D so your rears will be running slower at the higher wall height as a percentage of the same tread width.
Not sure why you want to do this in the first place other than on a $90000 car you are cheaping out over buying $600 of serviceable decent looking 18s (or 19s if you insist) for your winter tires. I must be missing something.
You know, MB charges thousands for all those manuals that come with the car in which they share their engineering expertise and it seems to me when it comes to winter tires maybe they know something that we don't about what works best>
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Hmm, if I'm not mistaken then BLKROKT has 285/30/19 in the back of his car and now when you compare it with 255/35/19 then it looks quite similar, besides the width? Damn, I wish there was somebody with this setup who would just say that staggered winter tires will work without problems so we could go ahead and order our tires 
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
Hmm, if I'm not mistaken then BLKROKT has 285/30/19 in the back of his car and now when you compare it with 255/35/19 then it looks quite similar, besides the width? Damn, I wish there was somebody with this setup who would just say that staggered winter tires will work without problems so we could go ahead and order our tires
Jim G
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From: Long Island
'16 CLS63S
You are going to get nagged to death by the system mate. Same as you would if you took TPMS out of your wheels.
The system will see the change in wheel speed as the rears will be running slower at the larger diameter of the 35s vs. the 30s. Remember circumference is Pi x D so your rears will be running slower at the higher wall height as a percentage of the same tread width.
The system will see the change in wheel speed as the rears will be running slower at the larger diameter of the 35s vs. the 30s. Remember circumference is Pi x D so your rears will be running slower at the higher wall height as a percentage of the same tread width.
I'm just looking for facts
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From: Long Island
'16 CLS63S
Hmm, if I'm not mistaken then BLKROKT has 285/30/19 in the back of his car and now when you compare it with 255/35/19 then it looks quite similar, besides the width? Damn, I wish there was somebody with this setup who would just say that staggered winter tires will work without problems so we could go ahead and order our tires
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
I know it is not exactly the same but I am running 26.02" summer tires front and rear and the car's systems have not given me any issues. Your tires will be 26.4" in the front but I think you should be fine at stock ride height.
When I bought my car it came with a MB winter tire set up with 235/40/18 front and 255/35/18 rear. I know these are not 19s but they are offered staggered from the factory.
.
When I bought my car it came with a MB winter tire set up with 235/40/18 front and 255/35/18 rear. I know these are not 19s but they are offered staggered from the factory.
.
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
I know it is not exactly the same but I am running 26.02" summer tires front and rear and the car's systems have not given me any issues. Your tires will be 26.4" in the front but I think you should be fine at stock ride height.
When I bought my car it came with a MB winter tire set up with 235/40/18 front and 255/35/18 rear. I know these are not 19s but they are offered staggered from the factory.
.
When I bought my car it came with a MB winter tire set up with 235/40/18 front and 255/35/18 rear. I know these are not 19s but they are offered staggered from the factory.
.
It DOES however prove that a non-stock tire diameter is ok provided that BOTH the front and rear have the SAME non-stock diameter, or at least are within some yet-unknown-to-us "tolerance" range.
Jim G
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2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
My Replika R170s are just fine in 18 BA and cost about $165 CDN.
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
To you and the other guy in the recent post, you have a car worth 10s of thousands and you want to skip out on $500 of totally functional wheels to mount winter tires on. Repeated stretching of the beads twice a year on both your summers and winters IMHO is not good for the tire and is costly when most shops will dismount and remount wheels with tires on them for around $40 a time or $80 a season. If you dismount and remount you pay that plus the mounting and balancing each time so in 2 seasons you pay for the wheels and you can sell them or ask more when you sell the car.
My Replika R170s are just fine in 18 BA and cost about $165 CDN.
My Replika R170s are just fine in 18 BA and cost about $165 CDN.
Jim G
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2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
I understand and agree with your logic, Alex, but in fairness, I just looked up those wheels, and while they are indeed $170 (no longer $165) on the 1010 tire site, that means the cost for the 4 wheels is actually $680, not $500, plus shipping cost. The maximum width available appears to be 8-1/2 inches.
Jim G
Jim G
And so what if they are 8.5s. They work. Being a square set up i.e. Both Axles 18 x 8.0J per the manual 8.5 is fine. With 18 being the only recommended diameter including the staggered for winters using 8.0 front and 9.0 rear, using a square set up allows front to rear rotation each season. A 235 fits an 8.5 just fine with no issues or risks from my experience and any experienced tire guy including our friends in service at MBN will tell you the same thing.
So what's your point?
My point is for very few dollars relative to the cost you avoid damaging the beads, gain rotation capability and make it easier and faster to get them changed if you don't do it yourself and the wheels will pay for themselves in terms of labour dismounting and remounting tires to the wheels and balancing them twice a year. I have bought after market wheels for all my cars save the R170 and the short term B and sold them as extras and never lost money on them.
Last edited by Alex.currie44; Oct 3, 2017 at 07:18 AM.
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2009 SLK55 AMG. & 2022 GLA250 4Matic
I'm not saying a staggered setup won't work in winter, merely that the majority of owners on here will suggest a square setup.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ed-advice.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ed-advice.html
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2012 Mercedes C63 AMG S
Ya and in US dollars? $135. That is my first point, We are dealing with folks who deal in US$$$ in case you missed that.
And so what if they are 8.5s. They work. Being a square set up i.e. Both Axles 18 x 8.0J per the manual 8.5 is fine. With 18 being the only recommended diameter including the staggered for winters using 8.0 front and 9.0 rear, using a square set up allows front to rear rotation each season. A 235 fits an 8.5 just fine with no issues or risks from my experience and any experienced tire guy including our friends in service at MBN will tell you the same thing.
So what's your point?
My point is for very few dollars relative to the cost you avoid damaging the beads, gain rotation capability and make it easier and faster to get them changed if you don't do it yourself and the wheels will pay for themselves in terms of labour dismounting and remounting tires to the wheels and balancing them twice a year. I have bought after market wheels for all my cars save the R170 and the short term B and sold them as extras and never lost money on them.
And so what if they are 8.5s. They work. Being a square set up i.e. Both Axles 18 x 8.0J per the manual 8.5 is fine. With 18 being the only recommended diameter including the staggered for winters using 8.0 front and 9.0 rear, using a square set up allows front to rear rotation each season. A 235 fits an 8.5 just fine with no issues or risks from my experience and any experienced tire guy including our friends in service at MBN will tell you the same thing.
So what's your point?
My point is for very few dollars relative to the cost you avoid damaging the beads, gain rotation capability and make it easier and faster to get them changed if you don't do it yourself and the wheels will pay for themselves in terms of labour dismounting and remounting tires to the wheels and balancing them twice a year. I have bought after market wheels for all my cars save the R170 and the short term B and sold them as extras and never lost money on them.
It's still a smart decision to buy the wheels and avoid the recurring changeover charges and extra bead stress, etc, but to throw out a "$500" number as the cost is misleading.
Jim G
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2012 C63, 2014 E550
You misunderstood my intent. I agree with your logic, but if you are going to quote costs, remember that we have BOTH U.S. and Canadian forum members, so in this case the statement should have been "$135 x 4 = $540 US plus taxes plus shipping or $170x4 = $680 Canadian plus taxes plus shipping. The taxes plus shipping, especially for Canadians, are significant.
It's still a smart decision to buy the wheels and avoid the recurring changeover charges and extra bead stress, etc, but to throw out a "$500" number as the cost is misleading.
Jim G
It's still a smart decision to buy the wheels and avoid the recurring changeover charges and extra bead stress, etc, but to throw out a "$500" number as the cost is misleading.
Jim G
Started at $600, now 500, soon to be only $400!
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