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So I wanted to check up on the status of the plug clearance after having done a few thousand miles. Eventhough the car has been running nicely with the recent bigger final drive, something was telling me to check the plugs, as a bit of the magic had somehow gone away. BTW take 'the magic' with a pinch of salt. It's hard to explain the feeling through the pedal into words that you get from having a very clean spark/burn....most of you will think I'm crazy, but I can deal with that.
Turns out that the clearances were pretty much the same as before. Six of the eight plugs were at 1.2mm and two of them were at 1.1mm. So I thought....ok, well screw it. I've been wanting to run side-gapped plugs on this car for a while now, so I just went ahead and did it.
Out came the Dremel and feeler gauge again. This time around I went for a 1.1 to 1.0mm clearance all over. I went a little closer this time around as I'm not planning to pull them again until this time next year, rather than 9 months like this time.
I'm happy. Car feels like the extra meaty magic is back and it's running like a dream right now. Silky, silky smooth power delivery, great torque and pull down low in high gears, super angry surging pull up top and a nice all round driving experience.
Well, I thought I'd share my progress with this seeing as it's a spark related thread. I know it's very subjective to gauge what's placebo and what's fact from a persons opinion on a topic like this, but I'm just sharing my experience for the knowledge-transfer nevertheless.
generally speaking side gapped plugs lose quite a bit of longevity due to the decrease in available spark area. spark over time wears out softer metals. this is why iridium and platinum was introduced.
I recently sold the car (July) and I hadn't pulled the plugs since the last time I posted in this thread. As far as butt-dyno tells me, the motor was still idling smooth, driving smooth and generally pulling ok. It still felt better at WOT than a headers/tune car (I sold the car with the cams, final drive and tune). In conclusion, the copper side-gapped plugs weren't causing any ill-effects in over 12 months of running them.
awesome. thanks for the added info! what car are you in now? I love my W211 E63. couldn't imagine replacing it...
I was at that place during a particular time of owning the E63 also.....but after I'd bought an E39 M5 in 2017, I realised the true meaning of life. I sold the M5 last autumn to a friend and replaced it with an S15. A fun/pretty drift car, but the M5 always left a mark on my heart that I knew the E63 would never be able to replicate. I have now bought another E39 M5, but this one will have an open chequebook thrown at it for a pristine restomod job. The M5 is off road at the minute having the final drive ratio swapped out for one from an E46 M3. The Supra TT6 is my (uncomfortable) daily at the moment. Safe to say, I'm out of the MB AMG game now. That being said....I still have a soft spot for a W211 E55 and would like to buy one again if the Mrs lets me in the future.
thanks for the background. i do appreciate the E39 M5 as well, but will never own a BMW newer than 1990 ever again. they're awesome when they're new, but once those repairs start adding up...they bankrupt you. every time i get into my W211 E63 it puts a smile on my face. obviously there are things i wish were better...transmission shift speed, suspension being softer or sportier depending on my mood, and MPG...nothing else is in need that any other car would also have. repairs on this thing have been minimal, and gives me more of an appreciation for the Mercedes brand.
with the BMW though...make sure you reinforce your sheet steel at their failure points...if they haven't failed yet, they will.
honestly speaking...i'd like to own more M156 powered vehicles, but fuel economy and just owning too many cars is prohibiting that. the M156/159 is an amazing engine that is the top or one of the top V8's ever mass produced.
Hey skratch any update on these? You ever dyno them? How are they holding up?
They are running well, I have so much done to the car and it's hard to get an exact feel for them. I have not done a before and after dyno with them.
I do monitor cylinder misfires and they are helping that out alot as I'm running my aggressive 104 map on pump gas and the car is doing well if the air temps are under 90.
I did do one dyno with them and I'll look for it. The biggest thing you can see in the dyno is how smooth the curves are.
Right now I'm waiting for the velocity stacks and I'm putting 200 cell race cats on and I just bought back my remus exh I sold last year and that just went on the car so it's like impossible to tell you how the coils feel lol.
Glad you decided to put the car back together bud. I think I’m going to get these coils, I need an easy install win over here.
I hear ya bud my next step is boost. I have my custom ml63 intake and pretty much max out what we can do other than ported heads and cams and that sls intake I look up on Ebay every few weeks.
When you get a chance can you tell me what you are getting on your vvt cam advance in mode 6 or any scan tool that shows it.
My tune is set for 28 degrees on intake and exh cams but can only see that in race gas or e85 mix.
Here is an example I found on my cell. Its showing max advancing on each cam and you can see 27. This will change with the type of fuel and conditions but on race gas I see 28 on all 4 cams.
Just curious how much your custom tune is hitting.
had a factory cool fully fail on me. went with a new set of Delphi's from FCP. been running fine ever since. FCP has the best price from what I've found for factory coils.
wish I had the loot for those IP ignition coils though. I do enjoy the similar coils on my Audi.
@BLKROKT Thank you for uncovering and compiling all of that great info on M156-compatible Brisk plugs.
As an update, the MR12YS-9 part number is no longer available. Spoke to a rep at Brisk Racing (knowledgeable and very helpful customer service), who clarified that variants of the MR12YS plug were consolidated into a single part number: MR12YS-6.
This was ID'd as the FI version of the plug in this thread, and per Brisk can be easily re-gapped for a N/A application.
Wanted to reply to this thread as I have and will be trying different plugs since I was asked recently again about colder plugs.
I currently have 8 heat range ngk coppers in my car now but it's down right now. I also just bought another set of one step colder irridiums that are not SLS plugs and also have the part number for 9s if anybody were to ever need them.
these are the part numbers for 8s and 9s using ngks plug finder using the stock plug specs. These are not specifically gapped for our motor so they'll have to be regapped or checked. I just bought the 6706 for my SC setup, but not sure if I'll be using them yet or staying with my coppers.
the plugs above are what I was told that weistec sent for their one step colder plugs. I have not physically handled these but the part number above just is what was confirmed.
here is the side by side comparison of the mercedes sls plug and my ngk LKAR8AI-9 /6706 plug. They are identical in specs except that the electrode is recessed probably 2mm compared to the sls plug, which I honestly doubt would make a difference or be any sort of problem. I also do not physically have the LKAR9BI-10 plug to physically compare either.
Just some info I wanted to post and update this thread with info for anyone that needs it.
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
So, I’m more of a glow plug kind of guy, so I’ll proudly admit ignorance here.
Back when I was working for one of the local shyster performance shops (I was the German car guy) we did a bunch of boosted gas engine ****, and the answer was always to gap plugs down to like .020” when we were blowing spark out. Common on the 2JZ, and I used to do it with the VW engines too.
Didn’t realize NA motors wanted Van DeGraff generators.
That capacitive discharge circuit gives me some ideas...
Sorry old thread but beeing searching some info on plugs and found this topic. One thing thou... Have you guys payed any notice to resistor? All of those alternatives you have posted are 5Kohms and OEM ILZKAR7A10 is 1Kohm.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by hachiroku
how's the side gapped plugs these days...
generally speaking side gapped plugs lose quite a bit of longevity due to the decrease in available spark area. spark over time wears out softer metals. this is why iridium and platinum was introduced.
Hey guys. Just wanted to add a data point here. Barry is absolutely right. I side-gapped my Brisks pretty aggressively back in 2020 I guess (haven't driven the car much since). When we were test driving my car last week after the latest round of work, it hadn’t really been driven for about 2 years and was misfiring like crazy. After trying a few different things, we pulled the plugs even though I insisted they were fresh. The gaps on my plugs had worn so much that they weren’t firing correctly - shocking wear. Threw in new NGKs and problem solved. I’ve got a new set of MR12YS-6 Brisks on the way, but I’m not going to mess with the electrode anymore, it’s just not worth it.
Hey guys. Just wanted to add a data point here. Barry is absolutely right. I side-gapped my Brisks pretty aggressively back in 2020 I guess (haven't driven the car much since). When we were test driving my car last week after the latest round of work, it hadn’t really been driven for about 2 years and was misfiring like crazy. After trying a few different things, we pulled the plugs even though I insisted they were fresh. The gaps on my plugs had worn so much that they weren’t firing correctly - shocking wear. Threw in new NGKs and problem solved. I’ve got a new set of MR12YS-6 Brisks on the way, but I’m not going to mess with the electrode anymore, it’s just not worth it.
you are going to go with new brisks? Those are the same as the plugs that had failed correct?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by deadlyvt
you are going to go with new brisks? Those are the same as the plugs that had failed correct?
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the NGK and their iridium electrodes. I probably read too many things on the internet about it being a terrible conductor etc etc. For now the Brisk Silver works for me, although I'd love to find a non-iridium and non-platinum copper-core plug that works. Anyway, the Brisks failed because I cut the ground strap way way back too much and there was massive erosion from the wide open gap. I just won't cut this next batch and they'll last for a long time as usual.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the NGK and their iridium electrodes. I probably read too many things on the internet about it being a terrible conductor etc etc. For now the Brisk Silver works for me, although I'd love to find a non-iridium and non-platinum copper-core plug that works. Anyway, the Brisks failed because I cut the ground strap way way back too much and there was massive erosion from the wide open gap. I just won't cut this next batch and they'll last for a long time as usual.
What are you using these days?
Ahh makes sense now, I was planning on using them as well I forget what I put in when I did a tune up 2 years ago to be honest. It may even be the brisks I just don't remember. Going to take them out and have. Look before I start driving it for the year
8951116[/url]]Yeah, I'm not a fan of the NGK and their iridium electrodes. I probably read too many things on the internet about it being a terrible conductor etc etc. For now the Brisk Silver works for me, although I'd love to find a non-iridium and non-platinum copper-core plug that works. Anyway, the Brisks failed because I cut the ground strap way way back too much and there was massive erosion from the wide open gap. I just won't cut this next batch and they'll last for a long time as usual.
What are you using these days?
For what it’s worth, I’ve been over 1000 WHP on my Camaro for the last 3 years with the same set of NGK Iridium 6510 plugs and simply do not have misfires. I recently changed them to go with another heat range colder in anticipation of more boost, but I could have easily kept running them. Yes, I went with NGK Iridium again. And I’m not the only one pounding NGK plugs that hard (or harder).
05-25-2018, 10:17 PM
