kickinrocks

Final dyno tune V7 blue - stock red


Original dyno day 1 after switching back to V7 from stock file
Hey guys, I figured that I'd share my experience and situation with the V7 tune. I first off want to shout out Jerry for really going above and beyond for customer service in both answering my emails promptly and adjusting the tune for me on-the-fly. I first went to dyno my car at my buddy's dyno - he has a dynapack wheel-off hub dyno. For one reason or another my car did not seem to like that dyno, only dyno'ign like 360-380hp regardless of stock vs V(whatever (tried v6&v7)) tune. Also on the last few dynos there was a concerning dip as you can see in the graph that looked like a misfire, although I don't think it was after consulting with Jerry, comparing it to the next day, and lack of CEL. I was obviously very concerned by this so I emailed Jerry and sought out another dyno to see if I would get similar results for if it was the dyno or the tune. The following day I went to a local dynojet and the problem did not resurface, although I did notice a progressive increase in power when switching through tunes as the car 'learned' the tune each progressive run. Jerry was kinda enough to 'live' tune with me, adjusting the file on the fly - he didn't have to do this but that was expert costumer service! The final result (i've posted the graph of the adjusted v7 vs stock) was an increase of about 30hp and 20tq max although almost a 40tq difference before 5k RPMs - way more low end grunt. The data file attached is comparing 2 different V7 tunes. I did find it a bit interesting that there was a slight power dip @4500rpm that Jerry said is expected with the new timing and that it ran about 11.5/6 afr at WOT which seemed rich to me but Jerry again said that is correct AFR for the new V7 timing. None the less 440hp/400tq at the wheel on a P31 car with just ROW boxes, secondary cat delete and v7 tune is pretty impressive. That's right in line with Jerry's 540 engine HP claim (assuming 20%(ish) power loss w/auto transmission) and the 409 baseline run is right in line with the 481 stock HP. Hopefully that gives additional insight for anyone debating the tune and another shoot out to Jerry for helping me out on the fly!

C63fora2w1

Your numbers are almost exactly what I got (443/403) with row boxes and res delete.. I am more than satisfied with the results of the v7.

Ambystom01

Your math is confusing. So the car gained 31 WHP, stock is 409 and tuned is 440, yet you think the car went from 481 HP to 540 HP, a 59 HP gain?

BadCompany

He's talking percentages of bhp to get whp, so yeah, whp and bhp increase won't be the same. Say you have 20% drivetrain loss. Now you start with 800 bhp. That translates to 640 whp on paper. Now say you increase output to 1,000 bhp. That is a 200 bhp increase, right? But still assuming 20% loss, you'll net 800 whp. That's only a 160 whp gain. So, yes, 200 bhp increase will not equal a 200 whp increase. In the real world it is more complicated as drivetrain loss isn't always linear as you increase power.

Ambystom01

The numbers don't make sense if you apply a 20% adjustment factor either. How does a 31 WHP gain lead to a 60 crank HP gain unless the drivetrain loss is closer to 50%?

Jasonoff

The base was not bone stock...

There is ~ 18% DT loss.

437.08WPH = 533HP (V7)
409.98WHP = 500HP (BASE)

Base to V7 = 27WHP / 33HP (18% loss)

BadCompany

Sorry. I was looking at the concept and not his exact numbers.

kickinrocks

Exactly. At 18% drivetrain loss 409 wheel hp is roughly 500 crank hp but if you add 40 theoretically to the wheel to make 449 wheel hp that's like 550 crank hp assuming the same 18% loss. Those numbers do seem in line with expectations as the p31 is notoriously underrated and typically closer to the 507 so the roughly 500 crank hp sounds about right. The tune realistically added about 30 wheel hp so roughly 40 crank hp.

Jasonoff

Using the OEM numbers as comparison is completely useless here.

Ambystom01

The amount of number fudging going on is remarkable.

Ludedude

Bench racing. Not for amateurs.

Rick X Joaquim

Actually comparing whp and bhp is pointless.
i dont see a tune would yield a more of drive train loss in power. Unless there are mechanical mods. If you gain 30 whp, then you gain 30 bhp.
percentage loss is just a estmimation.

rondeezy

Just out of curiosity, how did Jerry do a 'live' tune with you?? I'm assuming through email communication? How fast was the turn around, if that's the case?

kickinrocks

Yeah, through email. 5-10 minutes.

CarHopper

Although percentage loss is just an estimation, it is still a thing. Whether it is 10, 15, 20 percent, whatever, a 30whp gain is not a 30bhp. Tunes aren't immune to percentage losses of power in the drive train.

Example: Eurocharged claims their tuned cars have 540hp. Now, go find me one c63 with 540hp that isn't supercharged. Doesn't exist. So why has Eurocharged been able to tune thousands of cars with such a claim? Because people understand and are okay with the difference between bhp and whp.

Ludedude

No, just no.

kickinrocks

Lol I should have never mentioned bhp vs whp, I guess I opened up Pandora's box and that wasn't the point of this post. You guys are so finicky/nitpicky about these things. The point was the final version of the v7 gave me roughly 30hp and 20max tq and 40 low end torque increase from stock tune on a p31 car with row boxes and secondary cat delete for comparison. The other point was to thank Jerry (eurocharged) for hooking me up with a live tune and bring so responsive. My car is currently in the dealer for cam adjusters under warranty (shout out MB El cajon) but I look forward to putting some street miles on this new tune to feel the difference.

Rick X Joaquim

yes oh yes.
you could gain or loose whp without gaing or loosing bhp. I bet you dont know how

Rick X Joaquim

Guys,
you do realise the black series rated at 510 is dynoing 450. So how in all 440 will equate 540? The car makes max hp at 6800 rpm. If 540 bhp was making at higher rpm, i would believe.
do you guy even know how much more torque it needs to make over the black series at 6800 in order to produce 540 at the same rpm?
believe wat you want if it makes you happy.
by the way, nth really against EC.

bentz69

How many times did the tune get revised

skratch77

No way in hell bs makes 450whp stock...iv seen that dyno and called bull **** on it.its a high reading unicorn dyno.

p31 makes 390-400whp and a true bs makes 410-420whp depending on dyno used.

Rick X Joaquim

Now you are telling me it depens on dyno? That’s another variable to play with. Unless the engine is dyno at crank, everything published by tune manufacturers are just claim.
believe wat you want. I think it would be nicer to have 20-30 percent power train loss, that way you can claim higer bhp.

can anyone tell me how a tune over the ecu settings account for additional loss in power in the train power?

skratch77

no one here talks about stupid bhp.we all do dynos and post whp for that exact reason.

Rick X Joaquim

There are actually. Read the thread stupid! Dump ****ing tards

skratch77

540bhp x.18 is 443whp
510bhp x.18 is 420whp

hos car is like 5whp off the tuners claim and like I said healthy black series put down anywhere from 410-420whp and is right inline with 18% drive train loss.

I don' even have a eurocharged tune and agree with the re bhp claims.