intence

nice improvement.

off topic kind of but looks like yo uhave the W205 c63 wheels on? any more pics

kavik

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...w204-pics.html wheels

Ugh so I got to drive my car just a little while. I'm having power steering issues, I don't think they got all the air out of the system when the power steering reservoir was relocated. so I had to park it until monday to take it back in. Was gonna work on it myself but my jack wont fit under it correctly. The PS relocation tubes are much longer than stock and kinda slope down so you have to be careful...

Other items are the silicone sleeves that go from the airboxes to the throttle bodies are real slick when new. They came loose a few times until we kinda scuffed up the inside rubber where it holds against the plastic and that seemed to work.

As for the little time I did drive it... Before the car seemed to weigh a lot and when you gave gas, it kinda hunkered down and then pushed you back into your seat. Now the car feels like it went on jenny craig and lost 1000 lbs, feels lighter and has instant acceleration when you push go. The front end actually gets a little light when you gas it. Also the supercharger seems to be moving some air even when you are not really in to the gas, so at freeway speeds you barely have to keep a light pressure on the gas pedal for 80 or so. I was planing on driving it to national guard drill this weekend which is like a 120 mile trip to see how the gas mileage is (previously I could get 21 on cruise the whole way), even with the bigger injectors it may be about the same or a little better at cruising.... But will have to wait... I searched some other threads and saw some where wiestec installs had the same issues but there were no follow up posts which explained the cures. Will probably put up on rack and unhook reservoir to it can be held up above the engine then see if we can work the air out.

Will keep everyone posted!

Gsrchris

kavik

Hey guys. They think it to be the plugs, they ordered another set which just came in. Unfortunately I just left for 30 days of National Guard stuff, and wont be able to pick the car up untill i get back.

However, I did find a 44O kit which I dropped off for them to try to fit on the car while im gone, so we should know if a supercharger with below bumper intercooler and the 44O can be made to work together and if so how much modification is required.

I think one of ESS test cars was a black series C63 , so I'm hoping for the best. At the very least the Oil cooler bracket that changes the cooler orientation to horizontal will need to be modified for the coolant hoses for the IC to pass through.

I'm trying to find a 1/4 mile strip near me to take it to for some numbers

alexanderfoti

This is what is stopping me from going ahead at some point.

Having to tear apart the engine makes it a whole different project.

Its not that surprising, considering its quite a high revving v8, so the rods, pistons have to be as light as possible (to a degree).

Also, any torque numbers from these cars?

kavik

Realized I had not updated thread in a while.. got new plugs, the power steering finally bled. Car ran a bit rough at first, but now has been running great.

At this power level I'm not worried about rods at all. I'll post a pic of actual dyno for the torque. As discussed before, the ess tune limits torque so it is safe for both mct and 7g transmission. This is adjustable by your tuner if you get a dyno tune. Even though I have a mct car and could have gone higher in torque i had my tuner leave it at ESS settings to give a safety margin.

BalanBro

^Good call. It's not uncommon for tuners to limit torque to save rods, especially at peak torque and low RPM. Also, it doesn't greatly affect peak power output since torque tends to drop off up top anyway.

edit: I recall Tasos mentioning that the car with the bent rods was custom tuned. My guess is that it was running more aggressive timing at mid to low rpms. I'd stick with ESS's recommendation.

alexanderfoti

Excellent info, I would be interested to see what the torque curve looks like. One of the great things of the old 55 Kompressor engine was the huge torque wave from 1500rpm!

So are we saying that 650 crank hp is safe for the rods etc? Im not too worried about gearboxes. I can rebuild those and add clutch packs etc. Engines are more difficult

kavik

dyno sheet ///

I'm still chasing a little gremlin in my setup, about every 8-10 cold starts or so, after it has sit about 8-10 hours, I'll get multiple misfires on both banks, and pretty rough idling with check engine light. If I turn it off and start it again, i'm good to go. I can't say for certain it's s/c install related, as I didn't have the car very long before i put the s/c on it, and from my research some N/A C63 do the same thing. It runs awesome besides the startup with no other codes. Big Jimbo, who did the ESS install himself, has no such issues, and I paid $$$ for my install . I'm guessing maybe my map sensor is not fully seated or I have a weak fuel pump check valve.... I will work on it in the next few weeks, but the performance is awesome.... Fuel mileage, if I keep it on cruise control at 80, is actually about 1 mpg better than pre-install, I can get 21 mpg..... If I play with it, no so much, its averages about 17.5, which is still not too bad IMHO

kavik

[QUOTE=kavik;7495515]

Celicasaur

Nice work Kavik. I'm so jealous of you supercharged guys.

I wonder if anybody has optimised VVT yet with a tuned 'charger installation. Perhaps Mr747 will be the first one when he retunes. I wonder if the torque curve can be flattened out even further right up top. Either that or end up with more tyre shredding torque in the mid-range (which...you have in abundance, lol)

alexanderfoti

I would suspect this has been limited to protect the engine/gearbox/conrods. Low RPM high torque is what hurts engines really.

Celicasaur

Indeed sir.

Primarily though, I'd like to see if the torque can be increased at around the 6k mark and above. I might be the difference between seeing 60-100mph times dropping from ~3 seconds to ~2.8

alexanderfoti

It would be nice, although I would suspect that is knock limited in its current tune, around that area.

Celicasaur

That's one way to look at it, but I would always say that it's airflow limited. Knock limitation is just the overall ceiling due to too much heat/trying to send the piston back down too early. That's not what defines the curve though. Generally speaking, it's the airflow of the intake manifold and then whatever the cylinder heads (and to a small degree the exhaust manifold) can flow. Kaviks curve looks about right for a supercharged M156. By optimising the valve overlap (well...reducing it) it should straighten out the torque drop off up top a little bit....every little helps

Southways

The guys at HP Tuners in collaboration with VCM Performance (Magnuson Australia) did some tweaking of cam phasing on a Magnuson test vehicle. I don't recall the details (and the car that it was done on, now has has a very short wheelbase) but I do recall some significant gains were made in the low & mid-range.

kavik

That's a custom dyno tune the tuner did, starting with the base ESS tune. He was able to pick up about 35 hp and back the timing off some, so it's very safe. You can remove/adjust the torque limitations while tuning, if you have a MCT tranny or a built earlier 7G tranny. I just had him leave it with the set ESS limits for longevity and a safety margin. ESS said without the torque moderation (I believe they do it by limiting throttle opening), you will easily spin your tires at 80 mph when you floor it (which would be super fun but tires are already expensive and I don't want to worry about a engine or tranny rebuild.... But there is a lot of room to play with the torque if you are so inclined

kavik

A little off topic, but when the tuner took the car out to road test and had his computer hooked up to it ,he was crazy impressed with how fast the MCT transmission shifted under load. I know a lot of people don't like it, but he said it was shifting getting back on power s in a feww 10ths of a second and he couldn't believe how well it worked

Celicasaur

Yeah, seems like most M156 cars tend to get significant low to mid gains. Up top....apart from a few unicorn dyno's, strong gains have been few and far between (10hp, at best). Being F/I i wonder if there's more to be had up top, but if you're saying they tried it already, then i guess not

East Coast Euro

Awesome numbers! What size pulley is this with? We were able to run 10.8@132mph in our C63 with the lowest boost pulley, ESS box tune, and longtube headers (drag radial too but I don't think it helped much since the torque is limited in the tune and couldn't get better than 1.7x 60'). This was on a gen 2 Supercharger. These cars will really shine with more boost, maximized tune, and built trans!

kavik

8psi pulley, row airboxes, Mike power pipe. I need to get it to the track and get some 1/8 mile times . I had a zetronix/ndash setup on my old car and it was great with 0-60 and 1/8 and 1/4 mile times. I've been trying some gps phone apps to get some times and they seem to suck in general.

Honro

This is very interesting. Im in Australia, and I had this exact same issue happened to a highly tuned Ford that I had. After months and months of looking, and replacing parts, it ended up being the starter motor! One of the teeth in side it had bent (iirc) and when the stater would land on that tooth ready for the next engine start, it would draw extra current from the battery. This extra draw limited the ECU's power from doing a self-test & would result in the same errors your experiencing. Including putting the car into limp mode etc. Took an auto electrician about 3 weeks to find it, because as you mentioned it needed to sit, and also needed to land on that tooth. So he would measure the current draw from the battery (iirc) on a normal start, vs when the car errored.

May not be the same issue ur having, but just food for thought!

kavik

So I had a nice long drive that I done pre supercharger install. Last time I was going on this route I set the cruise at about 80 and the average was 21.9 miles per gallon according to the speedo calculator.( I know the real average is lower than that.) However after the supercharger install , driving the same route average mileage actually shows 23.5 miles per gallon avrrage per the display

I don't know if it's because of the cooler intake air or the fact that I barely have to keep the throttle touched. Of course overall I'm still very much losing money on gas because when I do drive it aggressively the mileage goes down quite a bit LOL

East Coast Euro

It is because you have bigger injectors I believe. You would have to use the old fashion method of calculating mpg based on how much mileage you drive per gallon of fuel you put in the tank

kavik

That's right there were larger injectors with the kit. Probably affected computer calculations :-( that's a great thing about this board there so much expertise here on various aspects of the car. I'm just sad now there's not an excellent argument for the significant other that the real reason for the supercharger was really to help increase the fuel economy 😁😁