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Has anyone hurt a motor supercharging?

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Has anyone hurt a motor supercharging?

 
Old 07-15-2018, 04:09 PM
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Has anyone hurt a motor supercharging?

As the title says, Im curious if anyone here has had any engine problems (head gaskets, Pistons, Rods, Valvetrain etc.) by supercharging the W204/M156 platform. If so, please explain your scenario. As a side note, can anyone with a reliable high mileage build report on how many trouble free miles you have enjoyed.

Thanks for your time!
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:45 PM
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56k still going strong. Already did headstuds and buckets at about 30k for preventative maint. being a 2010 car. No abnormal wear and tear or failures. broke a driveshaft - it was a really cold day tires weren't really warm yet.... I run toyo r888's on it for street tires - went from spinning to traction pretty quickly and snap - that was at about 53k. Thermostat stucking open through fault code (pretty normal on a car this age), idler pulley bearings got noisey - replaced with updated dual bearing pulleys. Belt stretched aswell. rebuilt transmission once - factory replacement parts at 30k. Starting to slip into 3rd gear again - will upgrade this time around since it's out of warranty. All pretty normal expectations considering the abuse this car has endured. it's a Weistec stage 2 car. Mutliple 11 second 1/4mi passed on slicks and radials/street tires. Lots of daily abuse. 2 road course days. 2 Drift days. If you're located in the dfw area and are interested in checking it out - message me.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:31 PM
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NO problems here with stage 3 SC blower except a couple of broken transmissions

Lots of QTR mile passes and lots of dyno runs
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
NO problems here with stage 3 SC blower except a couple of broken transmissions
Well, I'm glad it was nothing serious.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:34 AM
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Anyone has trans problems after doing the uprated clutch packs?
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:41 AM
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A well designed & good condition supercharger will not damage any engine in reasonable condition - however a calibration not matched to the supercharger, application, environment (inc altitude), & other modifications will.
A supercharged engine will put more strain on most other drive-line components. The most common failure mode is that skinny bit of black rubber that connects the engine to the pedosphere.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:35 AM
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Thanks for the great feedback guys. I am very close to joining the FI club and was hoping to get some success stories as you have provided! Please keep the results coming.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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If you are pre facelift C63 I would recommend doing the head studs etc first. The more power you add the more likely the trans will start to slip as well. We have seen cars with no issues with stock head studs and stock trans but for peace of mind we recommend the head studs prior to Supercharger on prefacelift.

The ESS tune limits torque to help save the transmission. On the lowest boost setting and 93 octane our C63 with ESS supercharger and headers ran [email protected] with a mid 1.7 60'. This is a 78mm pulley, you could easily turn the boost up but we wanted to test the kit as is. Let us know if we can help.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:07 PM
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Can we really make these assumptions?. Engine components and fluids are typically designed to handle a range of force (and also heat) applied to them. Supercharging obviously increases the force and we don't know if the engineers at AMG accounted for that.

We already know adding the extra 30-50hp from the performance packs required upgraded engine components. So can you really just bolt on a supercharger and expect the same engine reliability?

It would be really interesting to hear from guys running superchargers for 50k miles and not have to deal with mechanical issues.

Originally Posted by Southways View Post
A well designed & good condition supercharger will not damage any engine in reasonable condition - however a calibration not matched to the supercharger, application, environment (inc altitude), & other modifications will.
A supercharged engine will put more strain on most other drive-line components. The most common failure mode is that skinny bit of black rubber that connects the engine to the pedosphere.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Hackin247 View Post
Can we really make these assumptions?. Engine components and fluids are typically designed to handle a range of force (and also heat) applied to them. Supercharging obviously increases the force and we don't know if the engineers at AMG accounted for that.

We already know adding the extra 30-50hp from the performance packs required upgraded engine components. So can you really just bolt on a supercharger and expect the same engine reliability?

It would be really interesting to hear from guys running superchargers for 50k miles and not have to deal with mechanical issues.


That's a valid point. I don't think the engineers at AMG build them to account for Superchargers but I do think they overbuild them to handle more power. The exact number is up for debate.

As for the extra 30-50hp needing beefed up internals I'm assuming you're referring to the P31. In which case, if you look at E63, S63, CLS63 etc they do not have different internals and are pushing over 500hp from the factory. AMG just limited the C63 power in the ECU so it wouldn't be faster than their more expensive models.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:27 PM
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Our Weistec superchargers have been setting records for many years now without problem. The 63 engine is a stout assembly, and as many have stated the weak point is the transmission. However, our stage 1 and 2 superchargers don't push the limit of the transmission, though higher mileage vehicles may see some issues with worn clutch packs sooner than others. Our stage 3 is a whole different animal, however, and requires the use of our upgraded clutch packs.

No matter what direction you choose to go, reliability will be there so long as you maintain the vehicle and the supercharger system that you choose.

Nothing beats the sound of that supercharger whine!
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:36 PM
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I really do appreciate everyone’s response’s. However, I feel that I must clarify my question. I am not looking for generic answers about properly designed supercharger systems etc. I have been building supercharged and turbo street cars since the late 1980’s. I am really looking for the Achilles heel of the M156 as far as supercharging goes. I am familiar with the head bolt issues on the early cars as well as the transmission limits. It would be really surprising (but also impressive at the same time) to hear that no one has shoved a head gasket out the side, broken a piston or bent a rod etc..
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:40 PM
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From our experience, the most we can really put down on a factory long bock is roughly 650WHP and 550-575WTQ. Once you start getting higher than that, you'll risk shredding internals. We built our Stage 3 to fit right under the limit on a factory long block. Built bottom end can take you skyward at haste.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory @ Weistec View Post
From our experience, the most we can really put down on a factory long bock is roughly 650WHP and 550-575WTQ. Once you start getting higher than that, you'll risk shredding internals. We built our Stage 3 to fit right under the limit on a factory long block. Built bottom end can take you skyward at haste.

Thanks for the input Cory! Is it the Rods, Crank or main webbing of the block that typically goes first? Have you guys ever popped a head gasket or piston on a stage I or II?
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:18 PM
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With the added stress on the rods and pistons, you start to see a lot more wear on the walls of the piston which essentially leads to piston failure. Generally, we don't see rods breaking and going through the block, but it has been noted to happen before. Generally the entire rod and piston assembly should be replaced as a whole, as well as the addition of ARP head bolts.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory @ Weistec View Post
With the added stress on the rods and pistons, you start to see a lot more wear on the walls of the piston which essentially leads to piston failure. Generally, we don't see rods breaking and going through the block, but it has been noted to happen before. Generally the entire rod and piston assembly should be replaced as a whole, as well as the addition of ARP head bolts.
Further to this there are lots of cars around the world running more then 650whp on factory bottom end as Corey mentioned these engines are strong from the factory and the engineers were even over thinking because on the block there is even a provision to drill and tap a oil feed for a turbo conversion

You tell me AMG werent over thinking when they were building these engines

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Old 07-16-2018, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory @ Weistec View Post
With the added stress on the rods and pistons, you start to see a lot more wear on the walls of the piston which essentially leads to piston failure. Generally, we don't see rods breaking and going through the block, but it has been noted to happen before. Generally the entire rod and piston assembly should be replaced as a whole, as well as the addition of ARP head bolts.
Does having a P31, 507, Black Series, etc. mitigate the need for a built block at all since they are factory equipped with forged pistons, con rods, and crank shaft?
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
... You tell me AMG werent over thinking when they were building these engines
Truth be told!

Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Does having a P31, 507, Black Series, etc. mitigate the need for a built block at all since they are factory equipped with forged pistons, con rods, and crank shaft?
The P31 package bottom end only consists of forged pistons. The rods and other internals are the same. There is higher peak power capacity, but you still run into the issue of the rods being a weak point.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory @ Weistec View Post
Truth be told!



The P31 package bottom end only consists of forged pistons. The rods and other internals are the same. There is higher peak power capacity, but you still run into the issue of the rods being a weak point.
The forged piston material is actually softer then the cast material and the forged pistons are actually smaller then the cast pistons

So who really knows which engine variant is actually stronger
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
The forged piston material is actually softer then the cast material and the forged pistons are actually smaller then the cast pistons

So who really knows which engine variant is actually stronger
The forge pistons are definitely stronger. By nature the process of forging vs casting provides a stronger more durable piston.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:32 PM
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It be nice to see a compression test on a few cars with day 15k miles of boost.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mr747 View Post
Further to this there are lots of cars around the world running more then 650whp on factory bottom end as Corey mentioned these engines are strong from the factory and the engineers were even over thinking because on the block there is even a provision to drill and tap a oil feed for a turbo conversion

You tell me AMG werent over thinking when they were building these engines
From the posts so far I would have to agree that Mercedes definitely over built this motor and lefft us with plenty of cushion. Lots of heavy hitters and vendors have given some good information in this thread. I am on the path to supercharge my 2014 507 and join the FI club. I spoke to Cory at weistec today who was very helpful and as far as he could remember they have never pushed out a head gasket on a Stage 1 or 2 setup.

BTW, I know that Merc63 was running a stage 2 from way back. Anyone know if he still has his car and if hes had any trouble?

Thanks again guys for all of your contributions to this thread!
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by immelman View Post


From the posts so far I would have to agree that Mercedes definitely over built this motor and lefft us with plenty of cushion. Lots of heavy hitters and vendors have given some good information in this thread. I am on the path to supercharge my 2014 507 and join the FI club. I spoke to Cory at weistec today who was very helpful and as far as he could remember they have never pushed out a head gasket on a Stage 1 or 2 setup.

BTW, I know that Merc63 was running a stage 2 from way back. Anyone know if he still has his car and if hes had any trouble?

Thanks again guys for all of your contributions to this thread!
He has a stage 3 now and has for a couple of years and hasnt had any failures just normal wear and tear

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Old 07-16-2018, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory @ Weistec View Post
Truth be told!



The P31 package bottom end only consists of forged pistons. The rods and other internals are the same. There is higher peak power capacity, but you still run into the issue of the rods being a weak point.
So the crank shaft and con rods are not the SLS variants? That's pretty lame seeing as that's how they advertised it!
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:04 PM
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