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I'm rich, and not pocket book rich, unfortunately.
Just for info sake: I'm in Canada on v-power 91, 14C (59f) outside, dynojet w/ tailpipe sniffer, 4th gear, roughly sea level and I've got a EC V7 tune with American racing headers/ catless x pipe/ no resonator, on a non performance 2012.
I put down 427rwhp and AFR was 10.8-11.1 throughout the pull. The dyno place will send me the data tomorrow to forward to EC as the printer stopped working. Obviously very disappointing but there is likely a good bit left in it as I'm still safe almost 2 full points higher A/F? I assume with this Jerry will be able to know what changes to make to get me closer to where I should be but I'm wondering if it's worth it have him use team viewer and tune remotely on the dyno. I guess I'll see what he says, I just wanted to share my experience. The first run didn't record AFR and I nearly shed a tear at the 426rwhp it made that run. I'll definitely be bringing ear plugs to my next session.
Im in vancouver too and dynoed my car there a few weeks ago. I got a 2010 p31 car with ap long tubes, no cats and a v7 tune and i put down 431whp on 91 also. I sent jerry the graph and he didnt do nothing since i did not have a before dyno. Btw do you by any chance have your stock resonator? im looking for one
Im in vancouver too and dynoed my car there a few weeks ago. I got a 2010 p31 car with ap long tubes, no cats and a v7 tune and i put down 431whp on 91 also. I sent jerry the graph and he didnt do nothing since i did not have a before dyno. Btw do you by any chance have your stock resonator? im looking for one
The thing is they didn't have the dyno setup to read air fuel ratio when you were there, with my super rich air fuel it's pretty clear there is lots left in it. Likely yours too.
so what afr did your car's factory wideband oxygen sensors read? There is a good chance you may need new ones. 11:1 is 2 points low btw. not too high. but i suppose that depends on point of reference. Atleast the shop isnt trying to use their wideband after some catalyst like most do
so what afr did your car's factory wideband oxygen sensors read? There is a good chance you may need new ones. 11:1 is 2 points low btw. not too high. but i suppose that depends on point of reference. Atleast the shop isnt trying to use their wideband after some catalyst like most do
That's what I said, I'm safer almost 2 full points higher than where I am. I guess I worded it kind of weird. I actually didn't know you could get an AFR from the cars wideband as all the other cars I've had that were dyno'd were too old for technology like that, however I thought the tail pipe sniffer was fairly accurate if you have no cats.
What is making you think I might need new 02 sensors though? Assuming the tail pipe sniffer is fairly accurate, I'd assume the tune is just too rich? What is bringing you to think 02 sensors are bad?
It would be just the up stream 02 sensors I'd need right? Wouldn't I have a check engine light /code if they were bad though? I just called and they're 415 each, so I'd like to avoid buying them if they're still okay
Get the Bosch ones. Don’t get the $300+ OEM ones made out of panda or something. The Bosch ones are like $150 each and have a 2 year warranty IIRC. I get mine at O’Reilly and they are good about honoring the warranty
Get the Bosch ones. Don’t get the $300+ OEM ones made out of panda or something. The Bosch ones are like $150 each and have a 2 year warranty IIRC. I get mine at O’Reilly and they are good about honoring the warranty
Is it same part number both sides? I'm in Canada so I don't know where I could find them locally, but I found this link in another thread. I'm not sure if these are the right ones though because 125 CAD is suspiciously low.
edit: I just noticed you can punch in your car model on amazon and it even says it's for upstream.
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
I am interested to see if O2 Sensors will help adjust your AFR to a slightly leaner but still safe ratio. I think your tune is set rich for safety and liability reasons as M156 engines are expensive to replace/repair. You are not showing any codes, so while your sensors may not be working at their optimum they have not obviously failed. It will not hurt to change them out as they are prone to fail after installing headers. Are you planning to dyno again if you replace them? Any word from Jerry? It does look like you need to go to a more knowledgeable shop. Where is your torque curve?
Is it same part number both sides? I'm in Canada so I don't know where I could find them locally, but I found this link in another thread. I'm not sure if these are the right ones though because 125 CAD is suspiciously low.
edit: I just noticed you can punch in your car model on amazon and it even says it's for upstream.
I am interested to see if O2 Sensors will help adjust your AFR to a slightly leaner but still safe ratio. I think your tune is set rich for safety and liability reasons as M156 engines are expensive to replace/repair. You are not showing any codes, so while your sensors may not be working at their optimum they have not obviously failed. It will not hurt to change them out as they are prone to fail after installing headers. Are you planning to dyno again if you replace them? Any word from Jerry? It does look like you need to go to a more knowledgeable shop. Where is your torque curve?
Jerry replied and said " I’m commanding 12.3-12.6 AFR in the file" and that from the past he thinks I have one of three issues: aftermarket larger injectors, bad 02 sensors or I'm getting pinging/knocking. I have brand new oem injectors and I'm getting no codes, so I really don't know what to do now. I think I'll try new 02 sensors for the reasons you stated and then find a different shop to re-dyno and hopefully get some data logged (which Jerry said he would need to see anyhow). I never thought about it until I was gone, but there is no torque reading on that chart. I was going to order one of those bluetooth dongles and download the torque app to datalog but I'm not sure how accurate it is, or if that's enough info to send off to Jerry.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I have independent pre-cat widebands monitoring my AFR. The first V5Headers file Jerry sent through ran the same 1/4 mile times at a lower mph than the pre-headers V5 file. Noticed that the AFR was running pig rich in the 11’s. He worked with me on sending a number of files back and forth for testing until we got it sorted with the V5HeadersRace file that I’ve run ever since. It shows AFR of 13.2 at WOT at the top of 4th gear now, and I picked up something like 6mph over the unmodified V5Headers tune. They simply have to leave a massive margin of safety on the off-the-shelf tunes. He’ll get you sorted.
But yeah, first thing to do is replace your O2’s. Header cars blow through them.
I have independent pre-cat widebands monitoring my AFR. The first V5Headers file Jerry sent through ran the same 1/4 mile times at a lower mph than the pre-headers V5 file. Noticed that the AFR was running pig rich in the 11’s. He worked with me on sending a number of files back and forth for testing until we got it sorted with the V5HeadersRace file that I’ve run ever since. It shows AFR of 13.2 at WOT at the top of 4th gear now, and I picked up something like 6mph over the unmodified V5Headers tune. They simply have to leave a massive margin of safety on the off-the-shelf tunes. He’ll get you sorted.
But yeah, first thing to do is replace your O2’s. Header cars blow through them.
I'm just hoping it doesn't take too many back and forths because with no wideband setup in my car, I'm going to have to book and pay to dyno each time. Or figure out another way to data log. I ended up just ordering a bluetooth dongle with my 02 sensors to try an app like torque.
I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it to buy a gauge of some sort, my friend was telling me about the aeroforece interceptor gauges that just use your factory wideband setup, so it plugs into the obd. I'm not sure how accurate that would be.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by ShaneN.
I'm just hoping it doesn't take too many back and forths because with no wideband setup in my car, I'm going to have to book and pay to dyno each time. Or figure out another way to data log. I ended up just ordering a bluetooth dongle with my 02 sensors to try an app like torque.
I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it to buy a gauge of some sort, my friend was telling me about the aeroforece interceptor gauges that just use your factory wideband setup, so it plugs into the obd. I'm not sure how accurate that would be.
That's why you do dyno tunes. To get every bit out of the motor while remaining safe. What I did with him was essentially the same thing except using real-world data in 1/4 mile times/mph and AFR during.
AFR as reported through the factory O2s (which are directly next to the Innovate widebands) by my OBD app were about a point richer throughout the range.
Also in instances where im slowing to a near stop and the car is in a gear or two higher than it probably could be, lightly accelerating away from that slow down I feel like I can hear pinging Or even if I'm coasting and it's low rpm but high gear as I get on the gas I can hear it.
Your car seems to be running very lean down low, at least compared to my AFR's from the other day. Admittedly I think mine is a bit on the rich side for an N/A tune, but I'm ok with that.
I'm totally speculating here, but I'm wondering if you are pinging down low, causing the ECU to pull a ton of timing from the map. Hopefully someone with headers can post their AFRs, but I'll attach mine for a reference point.
Last edited by BalanBro; Oct 16, 2018 at 01:04 PM.
I'm totally speculating here, but I'm wondering if you are pinging down low, causing the ECU to pull a ton of timing from the map. Hopefully someone with headers can post their AFRs, but I'll attach mine for a reference point.
That is exactly what I and the guys at the second shop have been thinking after trying two different dynos. After several back and forth emails with Jerry he says that is the power I should be making and that my afr graph looks normal and 100% safe.
I'm not hunting for a high hp number, I just find that low number in conjunction with a lean afr until past two thirds of the way through the rpm range to tell be telling something?
That is exactly what I and the guys at the second shop have been thinking after trying two different dynos. After several back and forth emails with Jerry he says that is the power I should be making and that my afr graph looks normal and 100% safe.
I'm not hunting for a high hp number, I just find that low number in conjunction with a lean afr until past two thirds of the way through the rpm range to tell be telling something?
no tell jerry his *** hurts. A longtubes header car should be making minimum 465-70. Buy a new tune since the support isn’t there. I recommend raceiq since Tony has been a pleasure to work with.
no tell jerry his *** hurts. A longtubes header car should be making minimum 465-70. Buy a new tune since the support isn’t there. I recommend raceiq since Tony has been a pleasure to work with.
I mean, I'd rather just get it sorted, I've already thrown away 800 in dyno time and 02 sensors to double check everything. So hopefully it doesn't come to that
I just don't get it, he linked me to the NY dyno thread to prove that my numbers were normal and in that thread one guy makes 438 tune only and another with headers making 450-480 (granted I don't know what fuel everyone is running) . But what concerns me more is they start out in the 14 afr range and quickly drop closer to 12 earlier and stay steady twhre through the range My afr looks nothing like that
I mean, I'd rather just get it sorted, I've already thrown away 800 in dyno time and 02 sensors to double check everything. So hopefully it doesn't come to that
I just don't get it, he linked me to the NY dyno thread to prove that my numbers were normal and in that thread one guy makes 438 tune only and another with headers making 450-480 (granted I don't know what fuel everyone is running) . But what concerns me more is they start out in the 14 afr range and quickly drop closer to 12 earlier and stay steady twhre through the range My afr looks nothing like that
Tempted to ask to try a headers v5 tune.
i feel your pain. But I bought a used c63 and the car had similar issues with ecv6 file. Since I didn’t purchase it be support me even though I had original receipt from different owner and handheld... it is what it is. I went a different route and I couldn’t be happier. Hope it’s gets sorted out for your brother... I’ve seen those dynos in that thread. People were doing those numbers 6 years ago lol with less mods than Jim’s car.
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