Phil1305

Ok, so I searched and didnt quite find answers i needed.

A few of you know I'm going weistec stage 3 very shortly. I'm going to get a few different tunes for the car once I have it setup the way I want it.

I want to get a dedicated e85 tune for my car, but in saying that I will only run pump e85 99% of the time. I guess my question is, the flex fuel kits wont work with an e85 tune correct? Also, would the kit work if I went with say an E50/60 tune then just ran pump e85 and let it do its thing, or will this still cause problems because the flexfuel kit is primarily setup for enriching a 93 tune?

I do not want just a 93 tune with a flexfuel kit, I want to take more advantage of the ethanol with timing increases etc.

Car is getting bigger injectors and fuel system setup. wanting to stay stock ecu route for now, but after buying flexfuel kit etc, it may just be worth going with syvecs.

Any advice or info you guys have is appreciated as pretty simple problem that I dont think there is a relatively cheap solution with stock ecu.

thebug44

I knew someone running e85 only in his car with a kit for a while. and he didn't have any issues. I guess the big benefit with the flex-fuel is if you ever decide to go 93 (no close e85 stations) your covered and the tune will adjust on it's own. But I will let the experts chime in.

Phil1305

but his tune a 93 octane gas tune? I'm pretty sure if you have a dedicated e85 tune the flexfuel kit wont work. I could be wrong.

My concern really is that if you're tuned on e85, the flexfuel kit still sees that as 93 tune and compensates for the ethanol content it reads. So in essence running way too rich.

Or also that you're tuned on e85 and you some how manage e65 mixture, will the kit scale back the fuel map/compensation so you also dont run too rich.

I get that the kit should run just fine on a 93 tune but on a dedicated e85 tune you can take advantage of timing as well for power.

PeterA90

You can’t run full e85 and stage 3. Even if you have bigger injectors. The main fuel line is the size of a straw. And the fuel pump will crash at WOT.

Pump e85 is just as good as the canned VP barrels.

If you want a full e85 tune then you need an actual flex gauge. The AFD one are somewhat off and not in real time.

Also, you will gain power from e85 without adjusting your tune from 93. It’s just how the fuel works.

If you decide you don’t want to upgrade fuel pumps and fuel lines and still want to run e85... I would run E30-E40 blend with meth injection. Also I would run an 80/20 mix. You want some water in the combustion chamber to cool down the charge. With e30-40 mix and meth 80/20 you will be around 104+ octane which is perfect for the 67mm pulley. Key is to log and monitor the car.

syvecs is just as complicated. You can get the all
done with HPTUNERS. Just need someone who really knows how to tune it. I recommend reaching out to MEP TUNED on Instagram. He’s very knowledgeable with hptuners and this car

Phil1305

I'm pretty sure one of your post was the info I saw.

I am upgrading pumps and lines, no issues there. I was just looking for a way the computer could fine tune for ethanol content in real time. I also plan on really only running pump e85 I just wanted my car to be safe given a the ethanol fluctuated some how and not be too lean or rich.

I do plan to run meth on the intake side. I see alot of guys running 100% meth. I only ever ran 60/40 meth/water on my wife's evo. So I'll keep the 80/20 in mind for sure.

I really would prefer a dedicated e85 tune. Although my power goals are 750whp. I do have the 60mm pulley coming.

And looking at holley digital dash to log external sensors like AIT1 and AIT2 and a few more.

So you think the afd will be fine with 93 tune and running e85.

NAPARM

What’s the difference between “full E85” and “pump E85”?

PeterA90

The tuner is key to running the car on full e85 and safely.

If you get an e85 dedicated tune. The car is married to that and you don’t need a flex fuel kit. Your afr won’t read normal stioch.

I think the kit will do fine but increase the e content slowly. Start at e30 and monitor fuel trims.

PeterA90

He probably meant a blend of pump and e85.

NAPARM

Why can’t you run E85 with stage 3? I know plenty of guys who are..

Phil1305

because the fuel pumps and fuel line aren't big enough to keep up with forced induction e85 demands.

Phil1305

maybe I just dont realize how well this car can correct itself once tuned.

Do these cars search for a given lambda value once tuned? Which is why you guys monitor your fuel trim so much? I will be monitoring lambda values with an external afr gauge.

I know a dedicated e85 tune is what's set, I wanted a safety incase of a lower/ higher ethanol content at the pump vs what is given in a e85 tune.

I just dont like the the safety net there for fluctuating pump ethanol content.

NAPARM

Standard ones yeah but once lines upgraded and add another pump or two it works fine.

Phil1305

that's what he meant, cant go e85 on stock stuff with stage 3 weistec. But yes once upgraded then no problems.

PeterA90

if you want to keep it simple as possible run Weistec off the shelf 93 tune with the stage 3 and increase e content slowly monitoring the fuel trims and fuel pump.

you can’t just change fuel pumps on this car. This fuel system is very complicated

Phil1305

lol, I understand that.

I'm planning on running a return style setup with twin 450s and -10 fuel line etc. I have it theoretically engineered out but have to verify my exact setup.

VictoryRoadPerformance

we sell a plug and play stage 3 fuel pump setup that is built for E85, we also sell the flex kits and injectors,

https://www.vrpspeed.com/product-cat...amg-m156-6-2l/

Phil1305

I'm not one to bash you like others, but please dont post a for sale post, with no useful technical info. I know what you sell and offer etc. I'm looking for specific info. Thanks

RNS-11Z

My stage 3 setup is on pump e85 only. I don’t run a flex fuel sensor. I’ve tuned for United pump e85 and the % varies between 80-90%. I’ve got 1200cc injectors, half inch fuel lines and 3 fuel pumps. I’ve got the latest gen 4 stage 3 charger. I was running out of fuel on 2 fuel pumps. With the previous gen 2 charger, 2 fuel pumps were enough. Btw, I just ran 142mph full weigh with a shut launch, short shifting in **** weather so the car is making some serious power. Hope that helps. If you want anymore info let me know and I’l post away. Oh btw, forget your fuel economy. Like seriously lol I get 160-180kms full tank.

Phil1305

thanks, RNS I closely follow you and mr747 the most. I was just worried if i tuned the car on e85 and pump fuel fluctuated too much I'd get a lean or rich condition which i wanted to avoid.

What pumps are you running? I've got walbro 450s to go in. And my stage 3 should be a gen 4 unit as well.
I guess I'll get a dedicated e85 tune and closely monitor lambda values and ethanol content with external sensor.

RNS-11Z

I know 2 are walbro but I forgot the other. I’ve done around 8000kms on straight e85 so far with no issues. Also the car first time tuned on power plus e85 but I ran United e85, this time tuned on United e85. I believe the factory ecu can compensate for a certain percent in ethanol change to either lean or richen it up as well.
whose doing the work and tuning?

Phil1305

I'm doing all the work, install etc.

Have two shops in mind, one tuned my cat NA but 3 hours away, another has done weistec c63 and 45 minutes away. Once I get closer I'll talk to each.

Still waiting on the setup to ship.

VictoryRoadPerformance

You were asking for the best setup, And someone posted that you "Cant simply change the pumps" The stage 3 setup is plug and play fully assembled for E85. If you have longtubes you will need the pumps and injectors. If you are stock you can run E85 on stock injectors. If you have blower you will need larger than the 630cc. I would NOT reccomend running an "E85 tune" run a pump gas tune and use a flex controller. We have a new version of our flex kit called the Pro and you can acctually adjust fuel maps with it.

mr747

Your other pump is a 340lph LOL

Phil1305

So the new gen 4 stage 3 ill run out of fuel on e85 with 2 450s? I do have 60mm pulley coming as well.

mr747

anything over 680whp will require 3rd pump