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A good day to all, once again running into a bit of a pickle and am needing a helping hand. I've searched and all it's done is confuse me. In the end wanting to know if I need to be tracking down a vacuum leak or not.
Here is a couple screenshots of data. Anything look odd? LTFT look ok?
Just trying to grasp my data, I'm reading some are saying it is Tune doing that?
I am about to switch tunes or even go stock and log a bit. But if I do run into it still doing it, gotta be vacuum leak? Just supposedly at least had intake manifold gasket replaced along with PCV. Maybe not done right, no whistling or anything and all runs what I think is correct.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Help us out a bit, what are the mods what is the tune etc will help.
Without any info LTFT's are high for a stock car - if you are running ROW inboxes (or some other aftermarket inboxes) you will get high LTFT's, so they look normal if you say have Eurocharged and Row Inboxes.
Ah yes, sorry about that. So it's the tune doing it as I know it's not my O2 as they are coded out as you can see from the screeny.
I do have ROW boxes along with a Velos Tune for LTH's.
Not many are willing to post data apparently as even the few others I found with a Tune didn't show them having these high LTFT's so had me wondering.
That actually expands my questions a bit then and I'll have to do some digging as this is counter intuitive of what I'm learning to keep a engine at lambda per se.
Last edited by catmandoob; Aug 7, 2020 at 09:39 AM.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
It is the ROW's there is a thread on it I started years ago, everyone with ROW's get's LTFT's of 15-25, if you put your stock airbox lids on it will be a lot closer to zero most likely - mine were at 25 with Eurocharged and ROW, but stock airboxes were close to zero even with the tune. There is some difference in the base software that the tunes can't adjust between ROW and US cars it seems.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Ya ROWs with stock tune even will be high LTFT's - O2's still read data, on the tune they just turn off the channel so you don't get a code but it still pulls data from the sensor to figure stuff out and it uses the pre-cat sensor for trims - the post cat sensor is the one they turn off that will throw efficiency codes.
Gotcha, good info as I dig in some. I have been told that even with ROW boxes a proper Tune should have trims close to 0. Wish I could pull data from my O2 dangit but it just shows a broken connection sadly since I'm going through OBD2 with HP Tuners. I'm going to inquire with Velos since they did my tune.
In the end probably wasted about $2.5k on these tunes that I'm leaning towards being pure junk now.
without a custom tune any off the shelf tune will have trouble with seeing LTFT's near 0. when a someone states, that your vehicles needs to be driven for a while so its adaptations can adjust, this simply means...let the computer do the tuning as this is a function of the computer already.
when a sensor is coded out, it's only marked as ignored in regards to check engine lights, not actually coded out by terms of writing new code that eliminates it entirely.
I very well may do that hachiroku, I saw that you enjoy your HP Tuners and that's one reason I snagged one up. I am in talks with Velos and sent them logs and my two tune files they did to compare. Other reason I am on this now is from all the data I can see and understand it appears their first tune is the same as the retune they charged me $680 for after the headers were installed. What I mean by that is fuel, spark timing etc match and don't vary between the two tunes. Learning teh true nature of canned tunes is let the ECU do the tuning lmfao.
Using my dragy my 60-130 times are the same as well between the two tunes. Any reason they would code out knock sensor?
Just too many weird things with the velos tune, I'm about ready to ditch them and realize I learned a lesson. Much better experience when I used OE Tuning for my other car.
most off the shelf tunes have minimal done to it. probably throw a bunch of ignition timing which eventually gets pulled back by the computer after it senses misfires or spark ionization disturbance issues. the ones that try to do more have issues with drivability. before hptuners was released i had an off the shelf tune and honestly speaking, it felt no better than stock other than maybe a higher rpm limit. also had horrible misfire at idle issues which i no longer have with my own tune.
way back in the days i looked into dimsport as most use, as an opinion, but for what i'm looking to do it wasn't for me. dimsport is packaged, as a simple solution to get basic tunes out as quickly as possible to gain revenue. its not meant to be a full on custom tuning package. it can be, but its targeted to dish out simple changes to a mass audience quickly. turbo engines, turn up the boost and send that out and charge x dollars to your customers. that is how its marketed. fast and simple changes to bring in revenue.
one thing i do also have to mention is...the Bosch Motronic 9.7 is in itself a smart computer that can autotune itself. any timing changes your tuner adds to the tune provided may not actually go into effect. the "smart" in the computer decides what to safely deliver to the engine. if the tuner asks for to much timing, the computer will then pull massive amounts of timing which can result in your v8 feeling like a 3 cylinder.
so your tuner may be updating timing, but the computer is limiting what to give at x point in time.
also, depending on various variables and calculations, the same tune, on the same fuel can see full throttle timing swings of 3-5 degree's depending on what the computer deems safe at that point in time. this is normal operating procedure. air temperature and spark ionization have a direct impact on this as well as how accurate your ignition timing is everywhere besides full throttle. if the computer is limiting timing in one area, it may also limit timing in other area's as a safety measure and not directly because there is an issue in that portion of the map. the first rule that computer abides by is, save the engine. whatever it needs to do to accomplish this it will do even if fuel correcting LTFT of over +/-50, or pulling 12 or 15 degree's of ignition timing.
Right, that's the constant goal preservation and then for stoichiometric.
It boils down to this, I'm digging in to see if headers, unless you supercharge, really are a very very minor adjustment from stock logs. In my testing my 60mph-130mph have stayed the same which essentially means no gain or under 15hp gained from VRP headers on my engine. I haven't dynoed to see any numbers there, I'm strictly using times as for my purpose that impact is what matters not on the dyno.
Granted I plan on going supercharger eventually as I'm going through the stages needed, so headers in the end aren't a waste. But was hoping for a smidge of a bump haha.
SO, I'm wondering if I'm having other area's I need to look into more, such as my cam adjusters since I have horrid ticking and my shafts and buckets checked out fine a few thousand miles ago. But when I look both sides seem to be right within a degree of each other and for most part a constant average. Are they supposed to be 100% steady though except when they are adjusting in rpm range?
I'm just learning the platform so trying to pick all the details I can.
there is a lot that can be done to change the performance of the vehicle. when you're ready for a custom tune feel free to reach out. you'll be amazed with how huge the engine will feel. i optimize every load cell along with other settings which unlock the performance of the 6.2L. custom is really the way to go.
there is a lot that can be done to change the performance of the vehicle. when you're ready for a custom tune feel free to reach out. you'll be amazed with how huge the engine will feel. i optimize every load cell along with other settings which unlock the performance of the 6.2L. custom is really the way to go.
You need to find a local and get his car on the dyno and put your skills to work and show us the gains! Heck you would be the first to actually tune the cams for specific profiles.
thats the eventual plan...i had my car booked for a dyno day but i had my a/c compressor fail which is going to take some time...the part is coming from florida.
also was looking for used/damaged cams to get them measured up and see what camshafts are available and match a tune to the camshafts with cam timing optimized. since most of our engines will be factory unopened motors with camshaft upgrades(in this example), cam timing will be pretty dead on, repeatable, and safe. i have a bunch of local guys asking for a tune, but already have x tune and without way to return back to factory tune, i cannot help them.
Row boxes require a change in the mass air flow calculation data as they are different and thus air flows differently over them. All bad tunes, and tuners. LTFT should always be within a few % unless you have bad gas. Impressive number of people in the business with no clue what they are doing. Turn off knock faults lol!!! thats even better. Trying to hide the suckiness of their tune. I like seeing random knock detection codes in poorly tuned cars. It let me know what tuners actually tune the cars and which ones just throw a **** ton of timing and see what sticks. screw it not their motor right?
Impressive number of people in the business with no clue what they are doing.
this is the way of the land and educating people of L I F E is the most teeth pulling discussion ever. this goes to say the same fact is true in all industries. a doctor that graduates at the bottom of his class is what when he graduates...a doctor.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
Originally Posted by hachiroku
this is the way of the land and educating people of L I F E is the most teeth pulling discussion ever. this goes to say the same fact is true in all industries. a doctor that graduates at the bottom of his class is what when he graduates...a doctor.
Words to live by, I have always said that, someone is always the best in their profession and someone is always the worst, but they are both doing the job, you have to seek out and find the good ones, all are not created equal.
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