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Hi guys,
I want to say first off I’ve used the search function but can’t find anything exactly like my problem. I was driving last night and my car suddenly started to struggle near idle and check engine like came on. The codes it read were P0300 (random multiple misfire, P0301 (cylinder 1 misfire), P0302 (cylinder 2), P0303 (cylinder 3), P0304 (cylinder 4) and P0016 (Position on intake camshaft implausible relative to position crankshaft bank 1). Oh it’s a MY 2010.
Car is driving like **** and has no power. I replaced the fuel filter and fuel injectors a few months ago. Spark plugs were replaced 2 years ago. And I don’t think it could be the coils as the whole bank 1 is bad. I’m hoping it’s just o2 sensors? Oxygen sensor current for bank 1 sensor 1 is 1.61 mA. Current for bank 2 sensor 1 is 0.49 mA. I have stock exhaust manifolds. Anyone have any ideas?
No not really, cold starts sound and feel mostly normal but as soon as it drops to normal idle around 600rpm, it starts to idle rough. What would randomly throw it out of timing?
I wouldn't drive it anymore and have someone look at the timing like Machinist said. I just got done spending $12K for a new motor replacement due to complete timing failure...
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by JonsAMG
No not really, cold starts sound and feel mostly normal but as soon as it drops to normal idle around 600rpm, it starts to idle rough. What would randomly throw it out of timing?
If someone has been into the engine before to mess with the cam phasers and reused a friction washer or one of the single use phaser bolts, that’d do it. You could also have a worn out intake camshaft, that would make it run like crap, but wouldn’t explain the cam position codes.
How many miles on this engine? Any known service history?
Your O2 readings are suspect...
I don’t know what they should be at a cold idle, or hot idle, but they should be similar at least, and also be varying and not static.
Hopefully it isn’t a timing issue. If it wasn’t throwing cam codes, I’d be chasing sensors, but the cam codes would have me tearing the bank 1 valve cover off.
Last edited by The Machinist; Nov 24, 2020 at 09:59 AM.
This is fairly simple, just go pop the valve cover, and readjust your intake camshaft to the Cam Adjuster, it moved over out of place a few degrees. You will need the cam adjuster tool kit to readjust it all.
It has 71k miles and has just normal maintenance. I opened up the valve cover a few months ago to replace the gasket. I’ll replace the O2 sensors and look up how to correct timing. If anyone has any good links for that it would be appreciated.
It has 71k miles and has just normal maintenance. I opened up the valve cover a few months ago to replace the gasket. I’ll replace the O2 sensors and look up how to correct timing. If anyone has any good links for that it would be appreciated.
You have P0016 which means your Intake cam from bank 1 is out of coordination to the crank. I'd check the timing by putting it at 40° and if your intake cam doesnt lockup with the tool at the back of it then its out of spec.
Little update, I erased the codes and replaced the passenger side (US) bank1 O2 sensor and started it up. Idled like **** still and same codes came back except replaced cylinder 3 misfire with cylinder 5. So now cylinder 1,2,4 and 5 are misfiring along with the intake camshaft position implausible relative to the crankshaft position. So now it’s no longer all of bank 1 with cylinder 5 on bank 2. I’m at a loss. I have an appointment with a euro indie Monday to have the timing looked at.
Little update, I erased the codes and replaced the passenger side (US) bank1 O2 sensor and started it up. Idled like **** still and same codes came back except replaced cylinder 3 misfire with cylinder 5. So now cylinder 1,2,4 and 5 are misfiring along with the intake camshaft position implausible relative to the crankshaft position. So now it’s no longer all of bank 1 with cylinder 5 on bank 2. I’m at a loss. I have an appointment with a euro indie Monday to have the timing looked at.
This can be caused by a bad camshaft sensor, CPS, O2 sensor or a camshaft adjuster.
In my case it was caused by a worn camshaft adjuster that no longer locks in position.
These are the codes I got when the left intake camshaft went out of timing. I'd strongly suggest you look into the cause instead of just re-timing the engine. I fixed the issue by replacing the camshaft adjusters.
bad camshaft adjuster won't cause massive misfires...maybe a handful here and there, but not enough to trigger a misfire code which requires 40-100 misfires within 1 second on that cylinder.
actually i take that back...if your adjuster is not moving at all and is locked at the entirely wrong position fully retarded...it could cause massive misfires. if you have a diagnostic tool you can review cam adjuster position. similarly HP Tuners can log this as well and display live data.
best to identify the actuation of your cam adjusters, solenoids, and cam adjuster angle sensor and replace as necessary.
Over the course of 3 days, indie checked for air leaks and fuel pressure. All is good which I already knew. Also, they did a compression test and found bank 1 is very high at average 250psi where as the passenger side is 195psi. If compression was compromised, wouldn’t bank 1 be much lower than bank 2?
After insisting the car had a code for the intake camshaft position implausible to crankshaft position, he restarted the car a couple times and finally was able to find the code. So now he said he’s going to pull both valve covers to check timing.
He said it could be a cam adjuster bolt is broken or something and not letting the valve open all the way to relieve some of the compression? Or he said the valves could have so much carbon build up and not allowing them to fully open.
I noticed in the last few weeks, I’ve lost about a 1/4in of coolant in my resovoir which I haven’t noticed in the year I’ve owned it. He said it could be due to Northern California’s big drop in temperature this last month or so. Really hoping it’s not the head bolt issue.
12 C63BS Magno Alanite Grey, 25 X5 Msport, 08 BMW E93, Ducati Hyper 698
250 psi is a bit crazy high, a few things can cause that, something taking up space in the combustion chamber (like carbon build up, but these engines are not really known for that) or coolant in the combustion chamber, you have a 2010, they are know for that, you can put a scope in the plug hole and look for signs of moisture). The other major thing that can cause it especially when checking when cranking is timing being out, if it is not opening the valve as long as it should be then compression will read high on a crank test.
So if I was a betting man, would bet on your intake cam adjuster being shot and if you put a wrench on the cam it will probably move and the CA will not be locked, my second guess would be a broken headbolt leaking some coolant, but that is less likely as it probably would not be the same on all 4 cylinders of that bank, would more likely have 1 or 2 cylinders misfiriing and having higher compression possibly.
Either way, take the valve cover off which takes like an hour and you will know in a few minutes by testing if the cam adjusters are locked and if they are out of timing or if a head bolt head has come off.
correct...if the cam adjuster for intake is stuck in timing retarded position, it will allow for camshaft overlap which in turn does not allow for all combustion to burn cleanly which can cause misfires.
once he has the valve covers off, your mechanic can use a big wrench to confirm the cam adjusters can lock. at engine off state, the camshaft adjuster lock pins should be locked and not allow movement. if your adjusters are bad, @63everything on instagram supplies rebuild kits if you're in need of a rebuild. I personally have a set on order from him.
Indie took a camera in the spark plug holes and didn’t see any condensation from coolant. He performed a leak down test and all is good. He reset the cpu to factory and he said it started running beautifully. He drove it 20 miles and all is good. Did another compression test and bank 1 is normal compression now. I previously had a eurocharged tune v11, I believe, that I flashed in January.
Indie took a camera in the spark plug holes and didn’t see any condensation from coolant. He performed a leak down test and all is good. He reset the cpu to factory and he said it started running beautifully. He drove it 20 miles and all is good. Did another compression test and bank 1 is normal compression now. I previously had a eurocharged tune v11, I believe, that I flashed in January.
Sounds like the tune just went bad? Very weird.
Tune went bad? All box tunes inherently are bad. Chat with hachiroku. Hopefully your timing codes stay away, compression test doesn’t really paint the whole picture it just says your cylinders are good....for now
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