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In your signature pic (right bank), something that doesn't make sense to me for ideal pulse separation is that cylinders 1 & 2 should be paired and cylinders 3 & 4 should be paired at their respective merge collectors. Your design shows cyl 1 & 4, and 2 & 3 merged, which would give uneven pulse separation and scavenging.
Was it done this way to accommodate space or fitment constraints? No doubt it performs better than the h-o-r-r-i-b-l-e OEM log style manifold, but it seems there may be some additional performance left on the table here.
Did you ever do any testing with smaller primary/secondaries? I'm just curious as these sizes seem to be geared toward BIG power and less for those of us going the more mild hand full of bolt-ons and tune path.
For anyone else reading, the scavenging order can never be perfect on the M156 because of the firing order. IMO a tri-y is going to give more ideal performance vs a 4-1 design. Going 4-1 with a rotary firing order at the merge would take more space than is available on this platform I think.
In your signature pic (right bank), something that doesn't make sense to me for ideal pulse separation is that cylinders 1 & 2 should be paired and cylinders 3 & 4 should be paired at their respective merge collectors. Your design shows cyl 1 & 4, and 2 & 3 merged, which would give uneven pulse separation and scavenging.
This is a Tri Y design. Look at the firing order of the engine. Our headers have beat out every header in power gains, even the knock offs due to enhanced design characteristics. We build exhaust parts, we do not copy anyone like other lower tiered companies do. People should choose wisely when picking their headers and there is nothing in terms of build quality and craftsmanship that even comes close. Otherwise you could be dealing with scumbags who know nothing and making a Very Risky Purchase.
On another note the o2 placement is perfect on our headers and tuning with our headers has been very successful for over 10 years. The provision of the rear o2 sensor in the headers is there for the person NOT running cats. With our cat option there is an o2 sensor bung after the cat and the one in the header is capped.
Weve proven over 40whp gains on a car that already had secondary cat delete, We have over 100 sets out there with 0 cracks or warranty issues. at 1/2 the price you cant beat it. Use the money you saved on a tune or throttlebodies and get 2x the HP per $$$
Weve proven over 40whp gains on a car that already had secondary cat delete, We have over 100 sets out there with 0 cracks or warranty issues. at 1/2 the price you cant beat it. Use the money you saved on a tune or throttlebodies and get 2x the HP per $$$
The collectors on your design made walk away from them, no finess just slammed together with a stamped cone.
When i got a pair of CKS headers in my hands and compared them to yours and MBH´s headers i chose CKS directly due to the same craftmanship as MBH but with some better placing of O2 bungs, and they had perfect midpipes with catalytic converters that had direct fit to rear backhalf of oem exhaust.
But if beeing able to choose without pricing as a factor i would choose supersprint(carlsson uses them) all day long.
True equal length longtube headers with proper collectors.
Weve proven over 40whp gains on a car that already had secondary cat delete, We have over 100 sets out there with 0 cracks or warranty issues. at 1/2 the price you cant beat it. Use the money you saved on a tune or throttlebodies and get 2x the HP per $$$
I've been holding back my experience with Phil for a while now. About a year ago Phil reached out to me to talk. I told him I would free up some time the next day (I believe it was a Saturday). In our phone call Phil was interested in settling our disagreements. Phil offered after the first batch of headers came in to go back to his manufacture in China and change the design to not resemble ours. I agreed that that would be a in the best interest of both of us if he did that . As well as be in the best interest of the Mercedes community Where Phil reputation is laughed at by a lot of the old school AMG enthusiasts. In turn I would not talk bad about Phil. A few months go by and I reach out to Phil and asked hi he was able to make the changes... No rely back from him. So I let more time go and I reach out in good faith that Phil just might hold up his end of the agreement. Again nothing from Phil. Then what does Phil do? In true Phil fashion he get on our Instagram and starts answering peoples questions with completely wrong information. I mean what kind of dick move is that? Shame on me for thinking a little kid like Phil could live up to his end of an agreement. I should have known better to make an agreement with a person who uses the graves of dead US Servicemen as a backdrop for an ad to sell products.
Obviously, I never said it was otherwise, and also stated I believe the tri-y is a more ideal design because of the firing order of this engine. It is 1, 5, 4, 2, 6, 6, 7, and 8, correct? Are you a poor winner or something, lol
Weve proven over 40whp gains on a car that already had secondary cat delete, We have over 100 sets out there with 0 cracks or warranty issues. at 1/2 the price you cant beat it. Use the money you saved on a tune or throttlebodies and get 2x the HP per $$$
^ Is trolling allowed in this forum? I see this guy plugging himself uninvited everywhere. Poor taste sir.
The collectors on your design made walk away from them, no finess just slammed together with a stamped cone.
When i got a pair of CKS headers in my hands and compared them to yours and MBH´s headers i chose CKS directly due to the same craftmanship as MBH but with some better placing of O2 bungs, and they had perfect midpipes with catalytic converters that had direct fit to rear backhalf of oem exhaust.
But if beeing able to choose without pricing as a factor i would choose supersprint(carlsson uses them) all day long.
True equal length longtube headers with proper collectors.
Give it a rest about the o2 placement. its total fake news. You have little experience making headers on modern cars with o2 sensors. We build a slip fit collector with springs and all. You know what happened? in a nutshell every slip fit collector held together with springs leaks. On a modern car that a big problem.
Obviously, I never said it was otherwise, and also stated I believe the tri-y is a more ideal design because of the firing order of this engine. It is 1, 5, 4, 2, 6, 6, 7, and 8, correct? Are you a poor winner or something, lol
Im not, its that our cylinder mating is ideal. we spent a lot of time designing it. Unlike VRP who copies stuff.
Is the firing order I listed correct for M156? If not I'm mistaken and will edit my posts. if so, your primary order is not wrong, but not ideal, or can be more ideal. Not saying it doesn't make more power than stock or more than many others (there's a lot of crap out there) but that there's potentially power on the table, as one bank has ideal firing order and one does not.
Give it a rest about the o2 placement. its total fake news. You have little experience making headers on modern cars with o2 sensors. We build a slip fit collector with springs and all. You know what happened? in a nutshell every slip fit collector held together with springs leaks. On a modern car that a big problem.
Lol.. ever looked close to the slipjoint on supersprint headers?
They DO got 'sealants'(dunno exact word)
And why do you make up things? 'You have little experiance on modern cars with o2 sensors'
Do you know my whole complete history?
Nah,, i guessed that so shove it!
I´m 50years old at this point and have been tuning cars about 30 years, i have well adapted to new EMS systems and how they work, i have installed quite a few on different cars.
I´ve been porting heads and made inofficial records in hp vs boost.
I have built several NA rally engines with both carburetors and EMS.
And you whining about lawsuits,, somethings holding you back..
Could it be that you don´t actually own the registered products because you actually ripoff some other brand yourself?
To proove it,, could you take a picture posing in your workshop where the manifolds beeing welded?
Lol.. ever looked close to the slipjoint on supersprint headers?
They DO got 'sealants'(dunno exact word)
And why do you make up things? 'You have little experiance on modern cars with o2 sensors'
Do you know my whole complete history?
Nah,, i guessed that so shove it!
I´m 50years old at this point and have been tuning cars about 30 years, i have well adapted to new EMS systems and how they work, i have installed quite a few on different cars.
I´ve been porting heads and made inofficial records in hp vs boost.
I have built several NA rally engines with both carburetors and EMS.
And you whining about lawsuits,, somethings holding you back..
Could it be that you don´t actually own the registered products because you actually ripoff some other brand yourself?
To proove it,, could you take a picture posing in your workshop where the manifolds beeing welded?
Or you can buy the Beker headers which also provide same power for half of your price.
Originally Posted by VictoryRoadPerformance
Weve proven over 40whp gains on a car that already had secondary cat delete, We have over 100 sets out there with 0 cracks or warranty issues. at 1/2 the price you cant beat it. Use the money you saved on a tune or throttlebodies and get 2x the HP per $$$
True equal length longtube headers with proper collectors.
That's a good looking 4-1 design, but the collector assembly I would imagine is a huge pain in the butt, unless of course it's required for fitment. Conversely I can see how the individual primaries may make installation easier, maybe?
Originally Posted by MBH motorsports
We build a slip fit collector with springs and all. You know what happened? in a nutshell every slip fit collector held together with springs leaks. On a modern car that a big problem.
There are a few ways to do a slip fit, and for a track car what swedepat posted is very common and works just fine as the cars are HOT all the time and who cars if they leak when cold. For the cars-and-coffee crowd and the general enthusiast, a single slip like that is not going to win anyone over; they leak, leave soot marks, drips, and all of these make many of us that expect aftermarket parts to function as OEM, grumpy. Although, many modern super cars, and motorcycles have them. Heck, I had eyes on a 1929 Bugatti with this setup as original, and it didn't leak nearly 100 years after the fact. The trick is to not buy them off-the-shelf... and use a double slip. If done right, it will seal well and there will be no cold leaks.
Who else besides MBH offers LIFETIME warranty?! You get what you paid for, enough said.
A very good thing to consider if you're thinking of the long haul.
Originally Posted by Kriston
Or you can buy the Beker headers which also provide same power for half of your price.
I cringed looking at these. I think part of MBHs concerns is these cheap headers, or knock-off headers, but in reality, those customers would never be buying from him anyway. So don't sweat it. You can't loose the business you never had in the first place. No matter how hard he tries MBH will never win over the cheap customers, because they are price shopping. HIS customers are performance/quality shoppers.
As far as whos design came first, does anyone know? I couldn't find any pics of the MBH setup earlier than MBH's own pics/posts.
The collectors on your design made walk away from them, no finess just slammed together with a stamped cone.
When i got a pair of CKS headers in my hands and compared them to yours and MBH´s headers i chose CKS directly due to the same craftmanship as MBH but with some better placing of O2 bungs, and they had perfect midpipes with catalytic converters that had direct fit to rear backhalf of oem exhaust.
But if beeing able to choose without pricing as a factor i would choose supersprint(carlsson uses them) all day long.
True equal length longtube headers with proper collectors.
Those are not long tubes. More of a mid length header. Those also will not work well in boosted or nitrous applications. The spring will blow off. Will require a small tack weld. Also those are 6k+ for just manifolds...
I’ve had a couple c63’s. My first one had Benzworks headers which resembled ARH design leaked because of the spring. O2 placement was up all the way in 1 runner... terrible.
On my current car I have MBH. The quality of Mike’s header really speaks for itself. Also the power band feels better with Tri-Y design. No dead spots. My only gripe is I wish his xpipe cleared the center brace.
The only two headers I would consider is ARH or MBH. If you want cheap headers Shardul are great at 1200 bucks shipped.
i love my ARH headers lol the mechanic that installed mine said he installed other headers, won’t name the brands, but he said (by far even though ARH is a lot more expensive) they were the easiest headers to install and he did them in about 4-5 hours vs almost 8-10 for other brands. They all do the same job of course but craftsmanship along with QA is very important to a lot of owners.
12-14-2020, 10:14 AM
