63 Motorsports Preproduction Camshafts
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 258
Likes: 20
From: Andover, MA
2007 e63 estate, 1998 ITB golf, ITE scirocco (sold to a collector in Japan)
a real catch can does. it vents the intake to atmosphere. it lets the oil from the oil pan into a catch can. that's it. every race car in the world does that. no one wants to put oil into the combustion chamber. correct??
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 258
Likes: 20
From: Andover, MA
2007 e63 estate, 1998 ITB golf, ITE scirocco (sold to a collector in Japan)
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 53
Likes: 33
2009 SL63 AMG
It's just painful trying to make sense of your rambling. Heresay is when one person repeats statements and utterances from another person. My evidence is first-hand: i tore down the top end of my M156, found lockplates with distorted and ramped pin holes. Replaced them with plates and pins with higher hardness numbers. They looked pretty good, too. I'm pretty confident that 63 Motorsports is not lying about the hardness of their plates. Likewise with the camshafts I found wear on multiple cam lobes, my experience with building small black Chevrolet race engines in the 70's and 80's (i'm a lot older than you) tells me that once the heat-treating is worn though wear accelerates. I got cams back looking like jewelry, again I'm confident the new surfacing is harder and more durable. So unless you want to grow a pair and stop intimating about lies, call it what it is I don't see how you're contributing anything to this community.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 258
Likes: 20
From: Andover, MA
2007 e63 estate, 1998 ITB golf, ITE scirocco (sold to a collector in Japan)
It's just painful trying to make sense of your rambling. Heresay is when one person repeats statements and utterances from another person. My evidence is first-hand: i tore down the top end of my M156, found lockplates with distorted and ramped pin holes. Replaced them with plates and pins with higher hardness numbers. They looked pretty good, too. I'm pretty confident that 63 Motorsports is not lying about the hardness of their plates. Likewise with the camshafts I found wear on multiple cam lobes, my experience with building small black Chevrolet race engines in the 70's and 80's (i'm a lot older than you) tells me that once the heat-treating is worn though wear accelerates. I got cams back looking like jewelry, again I'm confident the new surfacing is harder and more durable. So unless you want to grow a pair and stop intimating about lies, call it what it is I don't see how you're contributing anything to this community.
you're really kind of rude at this point. you show no evidence, you claim that you're some sort of engine builder, you assault me with stuff about my ********* and, and you say that i intimate lies. wow! look in the mirror, fellow. well i like what 63M is doing and trying to do, fanboys like you do not help them remotely. AGAIN, i like what 63M is doing and to what they aspire. i just wish there were more data so support their claims. YOU don't help because you have only anecdotal evidence.
finally, growing a set? really? really? what the heck does that have to do with this??
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 412
2010 C63 AMG
I'm not sure too many people are going to do proper r&d for some cams that they sell in very low quantities. The price of it would make them probably double or triple. Hardened coatings aren't new, if they are properly done they should last far longer than the stock untreated units. You don't even need to r&d that it's just a fact. I guess like was stated do you trust the shop knows how to treat them or not? I mean if you wanted you could buy some and some machinery or drive with them through different conditions to test, then come back with your findings. Or you could offer to pay for them to provide some testing information before you use them. Or just don't and go through someone else.
the pcv system on a race car running extremely high rpm and throttle with tons of constant blow by and positive crank pressure is different than a street car putting around down doing 1200-1500 rpm's. The vacuum of the intake is used to provide vacuum to the crankcase to aid in ring sealing which helps in both fuel mileage and longevity as it's sucking the unburnt fuel vapours back into the intake instead of turning into acids inside the pan. All the air is metered that's the point of keeping it sealed. This has all been studied endlessly and you can find tons of information on this. If your building an m156 race car and or perhaps even just forced induction your system of venting to atmosphere you are describing may actually be better.
the pcv system on a race car running extremely high rpm and throttle with tons of constant blow by and positive crank pressure is different than a street car putting around down doing 1200-1500 rpm's. The vacuum of the intake is used to provide vacuum to the crankcase to aid in ring sealing which helps in both fuel mileage and longevity as it's sucking the unburnt fuel vapours back into the intake instead of turning into acids inside the pan. All the air is metered that's the point of keeping it sealed. This has all been studied endlessly and you can find tons of information on this. If your building an m156 race car and or perhaps even just forced induction your system of venting to atmosphere you are describing may actually be better.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 53
Likes: 33
2009 SL63 AMG
first. you're not a lot older than i. you have no evidence for that. i know what hearsay means. you're correct in your description. you're probably correct in that i ramble. however, this "grow a pair" is ridiculous. i did not intimate anything. in fact, read the stuff i wrote before you get on your high horse. i don't think that you're helping the community by your short term evidence. so, you replaced your lockplates that had how many miles? with new ones that had fewer (by how many?) if you had replaced them with the OEM units, would they have shown wear? i don't know why you're so supportive of 63 motorsports. like i wrote, like 5X, they seem to do great stuff. there is just no evidence...no data.
you're really kind of rude at this point. you show no evidence, you claim that you're some sort of engine builder, you assault me with stuff about my ********* and, and you say that i intimate lies. wow! look in the mirror, fellow. well i like what 63M is doing and trying to do, fanboys like you do not help them remotely. AGAIN, i like what 63M is doing and to what they aspire. i just wish there were more data so support their claims. YOU don't help because you have only anecdotal evidence.
finally, growing a set? really? really? what the heck does that have to do with this??
you're really kind of rude at this point. you show no evidence, you claim that you're some sort of engine builder, you assault me with stuff about my ********* and, and you say that i intimate lies. wow! look in the mirror, fellow. well i like what 63M is doing and trying to do, fanboys like you do not help them remotely. AGAIN, i like what 63M is doing and to what they aspire. i just wish there were more data so support their claims. YOU don't help because you have only anecdotal evidence.
finally, growing a set? really? really? what the heck does that have to do with this??
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 258
Likes: 20
From: Andover, MA
2007 e63 estate, 1998 ITB golf, ITE scirocco (sold to a collector in Japan)
I'm not sure too many people are going to do proper r&d for some cams that they sell in very low quantities. The price of it would make them probably double or triple. Hardened coatings aren't new, if they are properly done they should last far longer than the stock untreated units. You don't even need to r&d that it's just a fact. I guess like was stated do you trust the shop knows how to treat them or not? I mean if you wanted you could buy some and some machinery or drive with them through different conditions to test, then come back with your findings. Or you could offer to pay for them to provide some testing information before you use them. Or just don't and go through someone else.
the pcv system on a race car running extremely high rpm and throttle with tons of constant blow by and positive crank pressure is different than a street car putting around down doing 1200-1500 rpm's. The vacuum of the intake is used to provide vacuum to the crankcase to aid in ring sealing which helps in both fuel mileage and longevity as it's sucking the unburnt fuel vapours back into the intake instead of turning into acids inside the pan. All the air is metered that's the point of keeping it sealed. This has all been studied endlessly and you can find tons of information on this. If your building an m156 race car and or perhaps even just forced induction your system of venting to atmosphere you are describing may actually be better.
the pcv system on a race car running extremely high rpm and throttle with tons of constant blow by and positive crank pressure is different than a street car putting around down doing 1200-1500 rpm's. The vacuum of the intake is used to provide vacuum to the crankcase to aid in ring sealing which helps in both fuel mileage and longevity as it's sucking the unburnt fuel vapours back into the intake instead of turning into acids inside the pan. All the air is metered that's the point of keeping it sealed. This has all been studied endlessly and you can find tons of information on this. If your building an m156 race car and or perhaps even just forced induction your system of venting to atmosphere you are describing may actually be better.
as far as the the R and D about the cams, i wholly agree. for example, here's what i read when i was younger: Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers - Wikipedia it says an awful lot about coefficients of friction and wear. everything that m56 has published is in concord with that book. the thing is that, while the do everything right as far as engineering, they just don't have any proof. and, how can they if their products are new? if after 10kmiles, there's no wear, then, there's no wear. how about 50k? the answer is that they haven't been tested for that long. that's fine!!! i didn't mean to offend anyone and i don't understand why so many are.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
Junior Member
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 17
Likes: 25
AMG
Part of the reason why we stopped publishing results and findings after 15k kms is because we would rather throw the car on track than make someone feel “good” about results.
These conversations will continue to occur and I suggest letting it go for all parties involved and ignore the unnecessary external monologues, in most cases.
These conversations will continue to occur and I suggest letting it go for all parties involved and ignore the unnecessary external monologues, in most cases.
Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
Likes: 16
2009 c63
We could get cost down by ordering in a group of 10 or more.
