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As part to an upcoming Weistec supercharger install I wanted to have a before and after dyno run comparison, I just got done with the pre-supercharger test run and the results are a bit odd and I'd like to see if anyone has some theories as to why. Basically, there is an odd drop in both power and torque at ~5200 RPM. The car still made the number that I was expecting based on the mods (see below) and 91 octane California gas but I was expecting a smoother looking curve for both horsepower and torque.
My guess is that the car was just pulling timing due to knock or alternatively this is Weistec's "California" tune for 91 octane, a stepped down version of their proper 93 octane tune (though this is probably unlikely)
Mods:
MBH Longtube headers (no precats)
MBH high flow cats (200 cell)
ROW airbox w/ high flow filters
Weistec W2 tune
MBH x-pipe midsection (likely no contribution to power)
iPE valve muffler (definitely no contribution to power)
8958072]As part to an upcoming Weistec supercharger install I wanted to have a before and after dyno run comparison, I just got done with the pre-supercharger test run and the results are a bit odd and I'd like to see if anyone has some theories as to why. Basically, there is an odd drop in both power and torque at ~5200 RPM. The car still made the number that I was expecting based on the mods (see below) and 91 octane California gas but I was expecting a smoother looking curve for both horsepower and torque.
My guess is that the car was just pulling timing due to knock or alternatively this is Weistec's "California" tune for 91 octane, a stepped down version of their proper 93 octane tune (though this is probably unlikely)
Mods:
MBH Longtube headers (no precats)
MBH high flow cats (200 cell)
ROW airbox w/ high flow filters
Weistec W2 tune
MBH x-pipe midsection (likely no contribution to power)
iPE valve muffler (definitely no contribution to power)
Most shops will overlay the wideband readings onto the dyno graph as well. If the car leaned out momentarily that would do it. As would slippage in the transmission. Or knock retard (91 octane isn’t great).
Transmission slippage crossed my mind but I don't know if that would explain the consistent dip across 3 runs (only last 2 listed in the printout above.) Like you said, the 91 octane does also seem like the most realistic culprit, though its always easiest to blame the gas LOL
I'm going to run 93-95 octane, repeat the dyno session at Speed Element and see what that looks like, and for good measure save a log session from the dyno with VCM Scanner which could answer many of the questions.
I have some 100 octane available near me in NorCal so I can run 93+ octane with some mixing, just not as convenient.
8958899[/url]]Transmission slippage crossed my mind but I don't know if that would explain the consistent dip across 3 runs (only last 2 listed in the printout above.) Like you said, the 91 octane does also seem like the most realistic culprit, though its always easiest to blame the gas LOL
I'm going to run 93-95 octane, repeat the dyno session at Speed Element and see what that looks like, and for good measure save a log session from the dyno with VCM Scanner which could answer many of the questions.
I have some 100 octane available near me in NorCal so I can run 93+ octane with some mixing, just not as convenient.
A couple of gallons of 100 splashed in with the 93 should put you in a spot where if you do get knock, it’s likely false. Also get a datalog of your AFR during the run and total timing (as well as knock retard). Not sure if you can do it on this platform, but on my Camaro I can monitor torque converter and transmission slippage too, so try to datalog that too if you can.
A couple of gallons of 100 splashed in with the 93 should put you in a spot where if you do get knock, it’s likely false. Also get a datalog of your AFR during the run and total timing (as well as knock retard). Not sure if you can do it on this platform, but on my Camaro I can monitor torque converter and transmission slippage too, so try to datalog that too if you can.
Hmm, not sure if I can monitor those aspects, I'll look into it and see if VCM Scanner is able to do that on the w204 platform.
8959038[/url]]Hmm, not sure if I can monitor those aspects, I'll look into it and see if VCM Scanner is able to do that on the w204 platform.
Yeah no worries, I’d just get as much useful data as you can, but no so much that you lose scanner resolution (monitoring too many channels at once will reduce scanner resolution). 👍
likely just a dead spot in the tune or knock retard as mentioned. These transmissions dont slip in the middle of a gear. It's typically while shifting if they are getting weak. It's also after you've made peak torque so knock seems unlikely. power seems pretty on point for a mustang dyno especially.
I got a chance to do another dyno run (same dyno and set up) but this time I ran ~95 octane and more importantly logged the entire session using VCM Scanner. The car has the same dip at ~5200 RPM but picked up about 12whp and 23 lb-ft due to the higher octane gas and the ECU running more timing for a new peak of 457 whp and 452 lb-ft. The logs don't appear to show anything anomalous, no alarming amount of knock or anything directly related to the car pulling timing within that RPM range which could explain this dip so I feel the most likely explanation is that this is just the nature of the tune that Weistec provided (at least to me) with their W2 tune.
The dyno graph can be seen below with the older run overlaid on top
Also for anyone that is interested here are the various logs, somewhat broken up per group of pulls:
1. w204_c63_95octane_run1 -- this is mainly the initial calibration run with 2 pulls
2. w204_c63_95octane_run2 -- this is the main session with 4 pulls,
3. w204_c63_95octane_run3_final - this is the final run after letting the car cool down for a few min, 1 pull
Installed the supercharger over the long weekend, so far the car is running great and no issues to report. I've scheduled a dyno session for next week (same shop same dyno) so we should have a good before/after comparison. If anyone is interested in a short and somewhat crappy video of it running with a few small revs
congrats on the blower. Should look something like 534whp 538wtq-ish, maybe a little more since you're on 95 octane. I can here the power steering pump groaning. This is a huge design flaw where the power steering pump cannot get gravity fed fluid and the fluid aerates. expect premature failure. Ask me how I know lol.
congrats on the blower. Should look something like 534whp 538wtq-ish, maybe a little more since you're on 95 octane. I can here the power steering pump groaning. This is a huge design flaw where the power steering pump cannot get gravity fed fluid and the fluid aerates. expect premature failure. Ask me how I know lol.
Thank you! I'm excited to see what it puts down on the dyno next week. And yeah that power steering noise is very annoying, I've literally spent 4+ hours trying to bleed it, making sure that the lines are as downward sloped as possible. Overall it has gotten better since the video but the whine is still there and is especially noticeable after some maybe 30+ min of driving. I've been considering modifying the way that Weistec recommend mounting the reservoir to the passenger bank valve cover and trying to raise/offset it up a bit so that it sits 1-2 inches higher and see if that would help.
This wouldn't be the only modification I had to make to the kit, the fuel pressure sensor port on the Weistec rail was not wide enough to accommodate the OEM sensor with an o-ring, so I used a step bit to chamfer it ever so slightly which worked like a charm. (From Weistec the port wasn't chamfered at all, so there was no way to get the sensor with a proper o-ring to fit, the edge of the port would just cut and shred up the o-ring.)
I've also been looking at stronger belts since now the entire accessory system and the supercharger run off the same belt, currently I'm running the 112 inch Weistec provided belt, which I'm sure is just fine ... but I picked up a Gates v-belt just in case for if / when I need it. Ideally I wanted to run the HD (Fleetrunner) or RPM variant of the Gates K061120 belt, but it looks like those have been discontinued (in the 112 inch size.)
The belt wont be the issue. Just keep an eye out of the idler pulleys, plan to replace every 30k since more stress is on them. Make sure they're the newer double bearing ones. I had some single ones on my car initially. It's a small price to pay for way more power. Idlers only last 50k on the motor stock anyways. Dont get caught up on the peak numbers, its the fact that the power is literally everywhere. Prepare to buy tires often too, hopefully you've already got an lsd!
The belt wont be the issue. Just keep an eye out of the idler pulleys, plan to replace every 30k since more stress is on them. Make sure they're the newer double bearing ones. I had some single ones on my car initially. It's a small price to pay for way more power. Idlers only last 50k on the motor stock anyways. Dont get caught up on the peak numbers, its the fact that the power is literally everywhere. Prepare to buy tires often too, hopefully you've already got an lsd!
Agreed, I'm not really chasing specific numbers with the C63, I have one other car that I went all out on (to the point where its almost undrivable haha) so no need to turn the C into something like that. Good call on the pulleys, I'll start researching some good alternatives for when I need them, Ideally I don't need to buy Weistec ones (assuming that those are just over priced, but research will show.)
Agreed, I'm not really chasing specific numbers with the C63, I have one other car that I went all out on (to the point where its almost undrivable haha) so no need to turn the C into something like that. Good call on the pulleys, I'll start researching some good alternatives for when I need them, Ideally I don't need to buy Weistec ones (assuming that those are just over priced, but research will show.)
I'm running Magnuson SC and am currently waiting on my SRG cooler to come across the pond. Hoping to lower temps enough to not hit limp-mode in the worst of Summer anymore. A non-EC tune can only help too. Absolutely hate this tune.
I'm running Magnuson SC and am currently waiting on my SRG cooler to come across the pond. Hoping to lower temps enough to not hit limp-mode in the worst of Summer anymore. A non-EC tune can only help too. Absolutely hate this tune.
EC as in Eurocharged? I never ran one myself but I feel like I've read more negative things online than other tunes (but that might just be because they're so popular) I initially ran a Kleemann tune but after 2-3 years I started having odd drivability issues and Kleemann always required to have the ECU sent in for bench flashing, since then I switched to Weistec (which uses a MyGenius handheld) and haven't looked back.
I'm also looking into running an Interchiller kit from PnP (https://pnptechworks.com/online-stor...-options-below) to help further reduce the IAT, seems like they have a (non released / advertised) tap which works with the c63 AC system and have at least done a little bit of prototyping with fitment on a w204.
Originally Posted by Accidental L8 apex;[url=tel:9030482
9030482[/url]]I'm running Magnuson SC and am currently waiting on my SRG cooler to come across the pond. Hoping to lower temps enough to not hit limp-mode in the worst of Summer anymore. A non-EC tune can only help too. Absolutely hate this tune.
Will they do an E85 tune for you? Intake air temp will be a non-issue with E (unless you’re massively over spinning your blower or something else dramatic).
Post supercharger dyno run is done! The c63 managed to put down 604whp and 546tq using the same dyno as the initial pre-SC base run and same ~95 octane fuel. (And for anyone that's interested I also included an HPTuners log capture of the runs below)
Will they do an E85 tune for you? Intake air temp will be a non-issue with E (unless you’re massively over spinning your blower or something else dramatic).
No idea. I'm not interested in anything EC-related at this point. Why someone had them tune this package is beyond me, it they chased big numbers over drivability. Trans and engine are in-sync may e 50% of the time and definitely runs rich as ****.
Currently hoarding parts and going to try and button it up mostly at once. Cam adjusters, Black Series tappets, SRG cooler and a trunk tank are either here or coming.
Considering Barry to clean it all up once ready.
EC as in Eurocharged? I never ran one myself but I feel like I've read more negative things online than other tunes (but that might just be because they're so popular) I initially ran a Kleemann tune but after 2-3 years I started having odd drivability issues and Kleemann always required to have the ECU sent in for bench flashing, since then I switched to Weistec (which uses a MyGenius handheld) and haven't looked back.
I'm also looking into running an Interchiller kit from PnP (https://pnptechworks.com/online-stor...-options-below) to help further reduce the IAT, seems like they have a (non released / advertised) tap which works with the c63 AC system and have at least done a little bit of prototyping with fitment on a w204.
I looked into an interchiller and just wasn't thrilled with tapping into a perfectly good AC system. Maybe I'm overthinking it. 🤷♂️
I know I can feel a significant drop in power from 50° ambient air temps to 85°. Humidity is less than helpful too.
I looked into an interchiller and just wasn't thrilled with tapping into a perfectly good AC system. Maybe I'm overthinking it. 🤷♂️
I know I can feel a significant drop in power from 50° ambient air temps to 85°. Humidity is less than helpful too.
You do have a point, it would require a full purge and recharge of the system so there is definitely something to be said about not messing with the AC system if it’s in perfect running order
You do have a point, it would require a full purge and recharge of the system so there is definitely something to be said about not messing with the AC system if it’s in perfect running order
My father was an industrial HVAC guy and a bit of a guru, he didn't like all the added parts the kits come with, but as you posted, that was a universal kit and maybe a w204 specific kit would be better in that dept.?
I was able to fix the power steering whine but had to go with a different power steering reservoir; I think the main problem was that the Weistec one is not baffled and that causes the fluid to aerate.
I went with triple baffled one from Chase Bays, (OE style push fittings and the "type 5" bracket) mainly due to size and highest likelihood of getting everything to fit. I did have to make a few modifications to the reservoir, one was to replace the screw type return line fitting with a smaller diameter one, otherwise the Weistec hose won't fit (but you could always run a larger diameter hose and cut about 1/2 of the "type 5" bracket such that it would clear one of the idler pulleys (since I went with the same placement location as the Weistec reservoir.)
Fitment is pretty tight as the new reservoir comes very close (basically touches) the insulation on the hood when fully closed (but it does allow the hood to fully and securely close)
Final installation An in-line filter that I'm running on the return line Chase Bays reservoir with smaller return line fitting
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