taphil

Brutal review, but also totally expected.

W205C43PFL

I guess so...

flocons

So the biggest issue with this car (in my opinion), is an issue that I have with the entire Mercedes/AMG lineup. They're moving away from the driving aspect of it. They have technology to pump in engine sounds. They have technology on top of that to try to (unsuccessfully) make the car feel lighter than it's actual weight. They have even more technology to make the car adjustable and feel like we have the ability to make the handling better than it actually is. It's ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS. It's all trying to change the perception of what the car is underneath. There are SO MANY ADJUSTMENTS for every single aspect of the a driver's interaction with the car. I just want to drive. It's a car.

That being said, this is pretty much analogous to the modern day cellular phone. Who uses the phone to make a PSTN call anymore? It's all apps and messaging and everything else except calling. At some point, this crappy car is going to be the place where you take your family to watch a movie on the screen, take a meeting during your busy work schedule, or order Uber eats for delivery during you daily commute. It'll be normal. You're going to do everything else in you AMG except DRIVE THE DAMN THING. Like I said, I'm not really trying to **** on this car, though I do perceive it as somewhat of a failure, but the industry as a whole; one that forgot what it feels like to experience driving JOY. We're only a few years removed from the 'good ol' days', but that legacy aspect of driving seems more and more unattainable by the day.

taphil

As the review summarizes, they're putting in all that tech stuff because the car is so heavy with the battery.

The GT S E Performance didn't get great reviews, and everything bad about the F1 racing inspired tech is trickling down and magnified.

W205C43PFL

I am guessing weight reduction is a major expense for Mercedes or any car manufacturers for that matter and from what I can tell they are not even going to bother since the electric motor and battery will add a lot of weight. One of the compromises of electrification and E-Performance.

W205C43PFL

What are your thoughts of the S 63 E Performance? The reviews were out and I will link that discussion thread instead of the videos to keep things concise. https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...release-7.html
I guess on an S-Class, the weight reduction is no longer Mercedes' priority as the S-Class is meant to be heavy.

W205C43PFL

Despite all this, I will reserve judgement once I test drive one at my local dealership. Maybe I will like it, we'll see.

Dima

AMG is being pushed in this direction by politics, everyone knows that. They need to address the future by experimenting with various ideas and they need to start with C class as E and S have higher profit margins.
The Tesla Plaid has exactly the same weight as C63 as the technology to make lighter battery is not there yet. It's not fair to compare W206 C63 with previous generations. Can't compare old bulbs with new 'more efficient' ones either, but you wouldn't blame bulb manufacturers and so on.
BTW, C&D loves how S63 drives even though it's based on the same principal. There apparently both electric and gas motors are in sync and compliment each other perfectly.

flocons

The technology is not there yet. I totally agree. I also believe that if you can't do it right, don't do it

Dima

yeah please let us know what the right way is and who's already done it.

Dima

Hey look, apparently BMW can't get it right either

Moreover, the XM driving experience is discombobulated in a way peculiar to this particular hybrid architecture. "This reminds me of a Jeep Wrangler 4xe" is not something you want to think while helming a $160K BMW, but the XM suffers from the same flummoxed drivetrain behavior as the Jeep, as the two share a similar ZF electrified eight-speed transmission. There's just too much going on. In this case, we have a V-8 with turbos that are on boost or not, a wet clutch, an electric motor with its own gearing, and then an eight-speed automatic transmission sending power onward to all four wheels—via another electronically controlled clutch to manage torque front to rear and an M Sport rear differential handling torque distribution side to side. There's an abruptness to the shifts and throttle response that betrays the complexity of the setup, and sometimes it seems like there's an estrangement between the computers running these disparate systems.

flocons

Everyone's done it right before. Even though everyone has personal tastes, most 'petrol heads' or 'enthusiasts' can fairly describe what is considered good driving dynamics and bad ones. Every single one of our favorite manufacturers know what 'doing it right' is...They know how to do it right using a petrol engine. NONE of them have figured out battery. Like it was mentioned before, the technology doesn't exist for batteries to be lighter *right now*.

Here's what to do:
1. Don't throw together a half-baked product. Yes, The late model C63, albeit on early impressions from many sources is just that: a half baked product.
2. Use a high bar (the very same one that you set in past iterations) as the baseline target.
3. Develop technology to get there. If technology doesn't exist invest in R&D or wait for someone else to do it better and copy them.

How to do it?:
1. If I knew, I wouldn't be in a Mercedes forum. I would be in a Pagani one.
2. This is for the manufacturer to figure out.

As a customer, and given Mercedes' track record. Anything below excellence for this type of car is a failure. Yes, technology is not there yet, and yes, they are forced into it partially by political motivations, so yes as a consumer I can most definitely conclude that they are not doing it right. Too bad, so sad

flocons

This, right here is it.

Just. Want. Car.

W205C43PFL

Thanks for the answer, I guess it is considered third times a charm for MB then? First GT 63 S E Performance then C 63 S E Performance now S 63 S E Performance.

W205C43PFL

Oops got carried away, forgot S-Class AMG never had an S variant.

W205C43PFL

not denying that is way complex system, and they do charge an absurd price tag, If I remembered correctly BMW's CEO said the XM is for Urus buyers who want a BMW...

W205C43PFL

MB is at a dilemma, they can't reach CAFE targets in USA and they are being heavily fined in Europe unlike perhaps BMW, Porsche and audi. Their electric strategy is not working despite constant advertisements on their sites, in dealerships and providing incentives to push these vehicles, most likely they also allocated most of the chips just for these vehicles. I heard Porsche's Taycan strategy seems to be working and as a result they didn't have lower the production of their ICE models especially 911, Panamera, etc.

MB's plan was simple, sell more electric vehicles than ICE so they can lower their fleet average. When that failed, they had to resort to the E Performance cars, although I will personally reserve judgement until I get to test drive them, whenever it ended up arriving.

They also want to be different and be seen as innovative and at the forefront of technology and they also believe electric is the future (being the second reason other than the fleet average emissions fine, that they are going to electric).

Simple plan or not it wasn't and still not working, the infrastructure isn't there around the world, the government incentives aren't enough, MSRP is higher than ICE (obviously) and the range anxiety is still a thing for those who commute long distances or live in rural areas. The EQXX might solve it but that car will take forever to be in production spec and arrive at dealerships.

Not everyone is willing to move towards electric yet, other than the accountants at MB winning and the political reasons, the C 63 S E Performance was basically something they have no choice but to make plus they can also brag about the F1 Tech and how complex and "innovative" the car is. Another thing is, they are assuming the plug-in hybrid will convince customers who don't want a full EV to consider.

The R232 SL launch was also not the best or smoothest, which is making things even harder for MB. MY22 vehicles held at the VPC forgot how long and then MY23 came shortly after and the 2024 DOG is already out.

W205C43PFL

Forgot to mention I think the big part of MB's fleet emissions is due to their Daimler-Truck division, which the aforementioned brands don't have to deal with.

Dima

NO, it was spun off few years back, MB is just a major shareholder.

W205C43PFL

I see then I stand corrected.