New C63 report
MBWorld Fanatic!
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1991 190E 2.3
I'm actually also an engineer and own a company dealing with motorsport part development over in Europe. Funnily enough, most innovations originate in normal cars and find their way to motorsport - with improvements, not the other way around. Reason is that the development budgets for road cars are at least an order of magnitude bigger.
Motorsport is primarily used for marketing road cars. Essentially they need your brain to associate the brand's name with success, champions and performance and they'll push truth as much as possible to suggest that the cars we're buying have "motorsport tech" in them. Joking a bit, there're more similarities between the IWC watch on Hamilton's hand and the small analog inside the center console than between the road cars and F1, especially at Mercedes' level. For Mclaren and Ferrari I expect things could be a bit different because their cars are relatively low-volume, high performance beasts. The only particular thing that's common between the C63e and the F1 cars is the fact that both have an electrically-driven compressor it seems - unconfirmed yet. That's neat, but really nothing that F1 developed, just another part that's used in both places.
Now in regards to C63 moving to a 4-pot. I absolutely hate it. I can appreciate technological progress, but this is just money down the drain and big compromises all around. Hybrids are just a stop-gap until we move to full EVs. Since we're sacrificing the sound and feel of the V8, for those that argue specs over anything else, a fully performance-oriented BEV like the Model 3 Performance will have better numbers and little soul as well.
Motorsport is primarily used for marketing road cars. Essentially they need your brain to associate the brand's name with success, champions and performance and they'll push truth as much as possible to suggest that the cars we're buying have "motorsport tech" in them. Joking a bit, there're more similarities between the IWC watch on Hamilton's hand and the small analog inside the center console than between the road cars and F1, especially at Mercedes' level. For Mclaren and Ferrari I expect things could be a bit different because their cars are relatively low-volume, high performance beasts. The only particular thing that's common between the C63e and the F1 cars is the fact that both have an electrically-driven compressor it seems - unconfirmed yet. That's neat, but really nothing that F1 developed, just another part that's used in both places.
Now in regards to C63 moving to a 4-pot. I absolutely hate it. I can appreciate technological progress, but this is just money down the drain and big compromises all around. Hybrids are just a stop-gap until we move to full EVs. Since we're sacrificing the sound and feel of the V8, for those that argue specs over anything else, a fully performance-oriented BEV like the Model 3 Performance will have better numbers and little soul as well.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2021
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W204 C63
W206 (non-AMG) officially revealed. I don't mind the exterior (the front might be a little long nosed), but I don't love the all touchscreen interior. I definitely bought my W204 for the visceral V8 experience, so not sure how I feel about the 4-pot. I'm sure the hybridisation will be fun with the torque, but it'll definitely be a different feeling. They're really going to have to nail the driving dynamics to make up for it for a lot of customers vs just going out and buying a fully electric car, imo.
Last edited by jacv; Feb 23, 2021 at 12:46 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
It's pretty shameful that there are people in this thread who aren't engineers who think they know more than the engineers when the truth is, that will never be possible because they'll never have the years of schooling and decades of engineering work experience that the engineers have. Your offensive nastiness has been duly noted.
Junior Member
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A lot
It's pretty shameful that there are people in this thread who aren't engineers who think they know more than the engineers when the truth is, that will never be possible because they'll never have the years of schooling and decades of engineering work experience that the engineers have. Your offensive nastiness has been duly noted.
Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 132
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From: Just outside of DC
2019 C63S Selenite Grey, 2018 911 Turbo, Guards Red
Formula 1 was deemed boring well before there was any hybrid technology. MB is a big name and they joined Formula E because they understand that this is the future. So did my engineer father. The non fossil fuel powered cars train has already left the station. It's time to get on it.
If Formula E were the future, people would watch it, but they aren't. I'm not. I find it terribly boring. Like many, I find EV's boring. At some point, I'll have one, but I won't be passionate about it, anymore than I'm passionate about a vacuum or a refrigerator. MB joined Formula E because politicians are forcing change on the auto industry and the only way for automakers to stay in business is to sell EV's to meet the arbitrary emissions standards. MB wanted their brand associated with EV's. Nobody was clamoring for EV's. It was a niche, and it's still a niche. Its such a niche that governments are forced to give people tax breaks to buy them. When you have to pay people to buy something, they don't really want it. Automakers are spending an incredible amount of money per car to market EV's. They are spending relatively little on selling SUV's and pick up trucks by comparison. One day battery and charging technologies will be advanced enough to replicate ICE fill up processes and things will change quickly, but EV's will still be boring to me. No sound, fake sound = fail to me. People in the future won't even think about ICE cars because they never had an ICE car. They won't understand all the fuss and will think these discussions were silly.
Finally, engineers are not the smartest people in the world. A huge % of inventions have come from non engineers. iPod, iPhone, etc. People find a problem and come up with creative ideas to solve them. Trained engineers refine those ideas. Visionaries and Marketing people sell them at scale. Great inventions fail all the time. Betamax lost to VHS.
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2021
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A lot
Great Inventions do fail a lot. That's why I don't even think EV's is even going to be a mass adopted thing with all the lack of infrastructure, and producing the battery takes a lot of sources as well. The next real thing will probably be some kind of Efuel which formula one is getting into as well for the future. All the gas stations in the world will be way more easily converted to a Efuel than converted into to a battery charger. We already have rolling blackouts. Now what are you going to do when the whole world is using battery vehicles? They already have a fuel that only uses 20% fossil fuel. My dad is not an engineer.
Last edited by Ruderegime; Mar 4, 2021 at 10:07 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
If Formula E were the future, people would watch it, but they aren't. I'm not. I find it terribly boring. Like many, I find EV's boring. At some point, I'll have one, but I won't be passionate about it, anymore than I'm passionate about a vacuum or a refrigerator. MB joined Formula E because politicians are forcing change on the auto industry and the only way for automakers to stay in business is to sell EV's to meet the arbitrary emissions standards. MB wanted their brand associated with EV's. Nobody was clamoring for EV's. It was a niche, and it's still a niche. Its such a niche that governments are forced to give people tax breaks to buy them. When you have to pay people to buy something, they don't really want it. Automakers are spending an incredible amount of money per car to market EV's. They are spending relatively little on selling SUV's and pick up trucks by comparison. One day battery and charging technologies will be advanced enough to replicate ICE fill up processes and things will change quickly, but EV's will still be boring to me. No sound, fake sound = fail to me. People in the future won't even think about ICE cars because they never had an ICE car. They won't understand all the fuss and will think these discussions were silly.
Finally, engineers are not the smartest people in the world. A huge % of inventions have come from non engineers. iPod, iPhone, etc. People find a problem and come up with creative ideas to solve them. Trained engineers refine those ideas. Visionaries and Marketing people sell them at scale. Great inventions fail all the time. Betamax lost to VHS.
Finally, engineers are not the smartest people in the world. A huge % of inventions have come from non engineers. iPod, iPhone, etc. People find a problem and come up with creative ideas to solve them. Trained engineers refine those ideas. Visionaries and Marketing people sell them at scale. Great inventions fail all the time. Betamax lost to VHS.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,995
Likes: 394
1991 190E 2.3
Great Inventions do fail a lot. That's why I don't even think EV's is even going to be a mass adopted thing with all the lack of infrastructure, and producing the battery takes a lot of sources as well. The next real thing will probably be some kind of Efuel which formula one is getting into as well for the future. All the gas stations in the world will be way more easily converted to a Efuel than converted into to a battery charger. We already have rolling blackouts. Now what are you going to do when the whole world is using battery vehicles? They already have a fuel that only uses 20% fossil fuel. My dad is not an engineer.
Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 132
Likes: 37
From: Just outside of DC
2019 C63S Selenite Grey, 2018 911 Turbo, Guards Red
Your response is immature and frankly par for the course for you.
news flash, design people run Apple. Jobs and folks dreamed up the solutions. Engineering came after the big idea. They didn’t start it, nor do they dream up most stuff at Apple. If they did, they would run the company. Instead, Jobs did, as a visionary and now a bean counter and operations guy is in charge. No engineer’s to be found in any job of authority. Just like most companies: no engineers in charge of anything. Guess they aren’t that smart. Go ask Dad why Engineers are not in charge of anything.
Last edited by Sullicc4; Mar 6, 2021 at 07:38 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3,360
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From: Washington DC
No more MB:(
Your response is immature and frankly par for the course for you.
news flash, design people run Apple. Jobs and folks dreamed up the solutions. Engineering came after the big idea. They didn’t start it, nor do they dream up most stuff at Apple. If they did, they would run the company. Instead, Jobs did, as a visionary and now a bean counter and operations guy is in charge. No engineer’s to be found in any job of authority. Just like most companies: no engineers in charge of anything. Guess they aren’t that smart. Go ask Dad why Engineers are not in charge of anything.
news flash, design people run Apple. Jobs and folks dreamed up the solutions. Engineering came after the big idea. They didn’t start it, nor do they dream up most stuff at Apple. If they did, they would run the company. Instead, Jobs did, as a visionary and now a bean counter and operations guy is in charge. No engineer’s to be found in any job of authority. Just like most companies: no engineers in charge of anything. Guess they aren’t that smart. Go ask Dad why Engineers are not in charge of anything.
Correct, visionaries come up with the concept/idea, pass it along and ask engineers to develop.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2020
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1991 190E 2.3
Senior Member
Joined: May 2017
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From: Las Vegas, NV
2014 C63 Coupe
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 29
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2019 C63 S Selenite Magno Grey
Disagree. The vast majority of AMG buyers hardly use anywhere near the power the cars produce - so trading the one piece of the car that differentiates it from everything else for a slight bump in HP doesn't make much sense. One of the major driving factors of this change is the Euro 7 (soon to be Euro 8) emission standards - and one of the consequences for the performance market of these laws is the trickle down of progressive legislation; mainly the Intelligent Speed Assistance implemented for Europe next year, and will soon to be reflected in the global market. Essentially the shift in emission standards also includes a higher margin of safety standards which removes the freedom of the driver.
None of these changes are good for car enthusiasts.
None of these changes are good for car enthusiasts.
The exotic supercars have been moving towards the hybrid format for a few years now and in the next year or two you'll see more sports hybrids trickling down. Corvette will be releasing a hybrid version in a couple of years. So I'm not surprised that the C63 is going in that direction as well. I'm ok with it since there are some advantages that make the change more acceptable (more power, lower center of gravity, reduced emissions and better gas mileage) and the C63s is overdue for bump in HP/TQ but I doubt I'll like the sound of a 4 cylinder exhaust. I'm not a fan of fake exhaust sound. I love my new-ish C63s but what I missed the most when I traded in my 2015 C63s Edition One was the music that came out of that exhaust.
One thing is for sure. I won't be trading in my BiTurbo V8 for a hybrid and I will eventually put on a complete Akropovic titanium exhaust on it.
Last edited by Spectre-13; Apr 27, 2021 at 06:38 PM.
