Curious if any of you considered going to the new Shelby GT500. I had one on order for over a year and cancelled when COVID hit before it was built. Now I'm second guessing that decision. Found another one that is currently being built that I could buy. I'm certainly intrigued by the new 5.2 cross plank motor. With simple pulley change and tune, they are well into the 800's at the tire. Not something easy for us to do with our 4.0L motor. Don't get me wrong, I love my C63S AMG coupe. The real negative is the huge depreciation I've taken on my 2017. It has 7,800 miles and has never been driven in the rain. The highest trade in figure I got was $54,000 on a car I have $90K into.

 

I had considered to get one at some point. The Ford engines in general have huge hp/torque potential...starting with the V8 from the GT. But could not convince myself to buy a Ford after all.

 

Pass. I'd rather just strap some PTG1000 or Pure 1000 size turbos to my M177.

 

Same. The GT500 is cool and has that nasty DCT, but it’s heavy like our cars. They both weigh a tad over 4000 lbs like the C63S Coupe, but are totally different driving experiences.

I’ve driven the most recent Mustang GT (rental) and the 5.0l is mean - probably puts up a good fight against a stock C63. But interior wise, exterior, infotainment/UI, etc. still makes it feel like a rental car 😕

The AMG feels a lot more special and you can easily add gobs of power if you want to go down that route. The biggest advantage I’ll say is the DCT vs our MCT 7 and 9 speeds - can’t hold a candle to that Tremec dual clutch, it’s holding power and response.

 

If theres another V8 that gives AMG some competition in the sound department its the mustangs.. it sounds even more throaty than our cars

 

Agreed. I never thought I'd see the day when a german sports car gear box is passed up by an American car. The Transmission remains the Achilles heel of all AMGs.

 

I was considering it, but now I'm waiting for C8 Z06 or ZORA.

 

Interesting car, but no. A track monster essentially. Regarding the transmission, looks like those complaining about the MCT own the PFL with the MCT 7 and I totally agree. That transmission has always been the Achilles heel of the C63, but don't project that to the MCT 9. It's a completely different animal. I passed on the PFL largely due to the transmission, but the MCT 9 is my new favorite transmission now that it is more than broken in. I do love my DCTs. Had one in my previous Audi RS5 and have driven many different DCTs. The thing with DCTs is that they are only fast and responsive as long as you shift sequentially and the TCU predicted the correct next gear. Perfect for the track or in the canyons as long as you are shifting manually. But if a DCT has to shift out of order, say going from 7th all the way to 2nd, very common in street driving, for example when using the kickdown, the shifts are slow and clunky. The hallmark of the MCT is that it can shift from any gear to any other gear consistently fast. The MCT 9 shifts in less than 100ms. AMG doesn't disclose the actual number, but the MCT 7 already shifted in less than 100ms in manual mode, so the MCT 9 is probably at around 70ms and as said from any gear to any other gear. A good DCT does it in about 50ms as long as the shift is sequentiell. Out of order shifts can actually take more than 1 second. The MCT combines the best of a DCT (no torque converter) with the best of an AT (planetary gear set that doesn't require meshing and synchronizing of gears) and now with the MCT 9, AMG got it right in terms of speed and responsiveness. In manual mode it shifts instantly and the shift completes before you even let go of the paddle. The MCT 7 on the other hand feels like the paddles have a mind of their own.

 

In all fairness, I intentionally said both 7 and 9 speed MCT’s. They both suffer from the same flaw in that they simply are not dual clutch trans and thus don’t act like one (for better or worse depending on the type of AMG owner you ask).

I have a PFL, but I’ve also driven the new 9-speed quite extensively in the E63S - both on road and at the limits on the track. There is slightly better paddle response (we’re talking in the hundredths, not tenths of second), but the difference is negligible - and this was going back and forth between my 7 speed car and the E63S to test.

Also, I don’t know when the last time you drove a PFL 7 speed, but I’ve received at least 3-4 drivetrain updates (including updated transmission software) and the paddle shifting is nearly instantaneous. I drove 99% of the time in manual, so if lag was a prominent issue on the 7-speeds I would be on here *****ing out AMG.

I’m not saying the 9-speed isn’t an improvement (certainly is), but it isn’t raising the bar in terms of new technology against the competition. Even the tried and true ZF 8 speed with a torque converter that’s in dozens of cars has been fine tuned by BMW for the next M cars - and it’s a MUCH better transmission than even the 9-speed. As much as I hate to admit that a transmission with a conventional torque converter is better than AMG’s latest and greatest, it’s simply true - they’ve nailed the tuning and response by programming it very well.

And not dig into the 9-speed, but I passionately hate how many gears it has. Why you need 3rd gear to hit 60 mph in a 4 liter twin turbo V8 is beyond me... I’m not a fan of that super close gear ratio in there, or the excessive amount of fuel saving gears. I’m sure the short 1-3 gears shave a tenth or so off the 60 mph time, but it doesn’t fit the character of the engine - that’s what I’d expect from a 2.0T 4 cylinder.

 

 

I haven't driven the E63S in manual mode, only automatic at the AMG Driving Academy, but based on reviews, the MCT 9 in the E63S wasn't quite there yet. That was the very first version as far as I remember. I've heard similar complaints as with the MCT 7, that the paddle response still needed improvement. Perhaps, they received updates in the meantime. The last PFL C63S I drove was a late 2018. As I said DCTs have their advantages and disadvantage, so does the MCT, and I'm only speaking of the MCT 9 from the perspective of the FL C63S. I don't know if slightly older versions like the one in the E63S already have the same tuning, but I highly doubt it. I'm sure they further improved it in the meantime for the newer models, and the FL E63S probably will get those improvements as well. But also, the MCT 9 in the E63 is not even mechanically identical to the one in the C63. Because the E is AWD, it has a whole second driveshaft going out of it to the front. That's additional rotating mass and losses and I would not be the least bit surprised if AMG employs a different shifting strategy in the E to protect the more complicated drivetrain compared to the purer RWD of the C63. Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.

If you don't like the gearing, then you don't like it, but keep in mind the different models have different final ratios, so the gear ratios are not the same in every model. Even the C63 sedan has different ratios from the coupe. I have no issues with it. I like the close ratio gearing and the fact that 1-6 are short gears optimized for acceleration, and 7-9 are cruising/highway gears. I'm personally not a fan of the ZF8. Yes, BMW has one of the better implementations and I do wanna drive the next M3/4, but so far it hasn't lived up to my expectations in any performance model.

I'm still a huge fan of DCTs and sad to see them go, but they do work better on the track than on public roads as I said above. I definitely initially hesitated with the MCT, but I have come around based on the performance of the MCT 9 in the FL C63. This is anecdotal, but I've just recently watched a review from some YouTuber who owns a C8 Corvette and drove a 2019 C63. He was raving about the transmission in comparison to the DCT in the Corvette. He particularly commented on the responsiveness. As far as I know the C8 also uses the Tremec. Just one guy, but so far you are the only one I came across who speaks more negatively about the MCT 9 in the C63 w/o specifically having driven it in that model.

 

lol yeah the MCT 9 speed has it's own issues. It's not much of an improvement over the 7 MCT, not the mention all the issues that AMG has had with it in early E63 and C63 cars....

 

Let's get back on thread. I'm absolutely considering one. At sticker, this thing is a beast. Tough to argue that mustangs in general sound amazing (better than AMG), let alone the 700+hp GT500. The MagnaRide suspension is fantastic. DCT. Carbon Fiber lightweight wheels. On and on. Yes, the luxury factor is higher in our AMG's, and I do love my C63s but I also know I have less rattles and squeaks in my F150???? This car will also be a Mod lovers dream. It is already track focused as was the GT350 which is/was great as a daily just not enough low end torque. The GT500 has solved that small issue. Anyway, my two cents

 

Yes, I agree that all sounds great but at the end of the day you still have a front engine, RWD layout that’s no different than the base model Mustang. And it weighs over 4200 pounds without the expensive weight saving packages.

There are much better platforms to go really fast in. For the money, I would rather have a pre-owned 991.1 Turbo S, but that’s just me. Mustangs are fun cars and I always have fun whenever I drive them, but I’m just not the kinda guy to own one.

 

I've always asked myself if something was to happen to my car what would i get...probably a GT-R (Nissan not AMG)

 

there is a reason its nicknamed Godzilla...and its getting pretty outdated. Wait till the new platform comes out replacing that entire line

 

The way you explain the mct 7 is like how it felt in a w204 c63s. Like said above, I don't doubt there is improvement on the facelift cars but the pre facelift trans is pretty damn good imo. It shifts pretty quite fast and does exactly what you, when you want it too. Your explanation sounds much like what my 2012 c63 was like to drive, I hated it in that car. Shifted delayed in manual, would ignore some paddle presses, wouldn't down shift 2 gears in manual with 2 paddle clicks, etc.

 

The new GT-R may not make it to market now. Too much cost to make it and too little demand. Lots of cost-cutting going on now with manufacturers.

 

the more i read this thread and look at the gt500 the more im falling in love with that roaring v8 sound. reminds me of the w204s. Going from an AMG to a GT500, i think the only thing one would miss is the luxury feel inside the AMG interior.. GT500 interior is not gonna be stellar but i wouldnt mind with that sound

 

Hell no

 

My neighbour has a GT500 and I can hear him go to work every morning lol In the sound department I am jealous of the Mustang's V8 but like most had said, the interior design and quality just doesn't hold a candle against the AMGs.

 

The 7 and 9 MCT are both perfectly good transmissions unless you drive them back-to-back with a great DCT. Whoever said the 9-speed MCT is more responsive than the C8 DCT is either lying or drunk. The DCT in the C8 is damn near PDK good and both are farrrrr superior to the MCT for performance driving. The GT500's is maybe even better than the C8. I haven't driven them same day, but when I drove the GT500 it was shockingly good. Feels like pulling a trigger. It's like going from solid 150mbps broadband to gig-speed Internet. You don't realize how slow the former is until you use the latter.

 

Yep, it’s the only other car I’m considering now. So thankful I have a PFL 63s and my car actually sounds great, but no way will I get a new ruined FL with no proper V8 sounds. Not many options left now in the V8 <$100k range.