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This is a joke in my personal option. Mercedes already has a heat shield cover. Anymore Shield is just useless. The main reason Mercedes put a heat shield there is to prevent the red hot heat from the turbo baking the paint off the hood. I can also see the blanket Not laying flat evenly might even trap more heat in some area rather then allow it to escape.
The entire concept of a turbo blanket is to trap and keep the hot air INSIDE the turbine housing.
Pick up a cheap heat gun, go for a spirited drive, pop your hood and start aiming it around - you’ll be shocked how much hot air is dumping out of the top heat shield(s) past the compressor housings and into the engine bay. This keeps the heat retained inside, not only to lower under hood temps, but increase turbocharger response and efficiency by keeping the hot air contained within the turbine housing.
This is a joke in my personal option. Mercedes already has a heat shield cover. Anymore Shield is just useless. The main reason Mercedes put a heat shield there is to prevent the red hot heat from the turbo baking the paint off the hood. I can also see the blanket Not laying flat evenly might even trap more heat in some area rather then allow it to escape.
So it's pointless because there is already a heat shield, yet you're saying the blanket will trap more heat in... which isn't pointless? I'm confused. They clearly say the point is to block extra heat going into the engine bay.
So it's pointless because there is already a heat shield,
yet you're saying the blanket will trap more heat in... which isn't pointless? I'm confused. They clearly say the point is to block extra heat going into the engine bay.
It pointless to have another blanket heat shield when the factor already has a heat shield there.
What I’m saying is from what I see, the blanket is not laying flat evenly which might create an uneven hot spot in the area. You want hot air contain and escape out not trap. Just like the factory design containing the hot air but also allow escape with the 2 vent
The heat escapes through the turbine and out your exhaust
That's why we developed it and support ModalWorks efforts here also.
They work well, especially when filtration is close to the heat source like the W205.
It pointless to have another blanket heat shield when the factor already has a heat shield there.
What I’m saying is from what I see, the blanket is not laying flat evenly which might create an uneven hot spot in the area. You want hot air contain and escape out not trap. Just like the factory design containing the hot air but also allow escape with the 2 vent
You‘re not understanding the purpose of turbo blankets. It is NOT a heat shield, it’s a product intended to keep the heat generated by the turbos inside their turbine housings (and expelled through the downpipes/exhaust). Turbo blankets improve turbocharger performance (proven in a study, it’s a fact) and kills two birds with one stone by reducing the heat in the engine bay (improving IAT’s, and potentially the longevity of parts/sensors that are vulnerable to high heat exposure).
Pop off the mostly decorative heat shield (you can literally just pull up on each side and it will pop out), and you’ll notice a second heat shield that does the actual work - it’s a simple thin layer of heat shielding that covers the turbines and downpipes/cats. It does nothing to contain the heat within the turbines themselves - it’s just a cover that lets 500+f air temps dump into your engine bay like a convection oven.
There’s a reason you almost always see drag racers and big turbos with blankets - these lava blankets actually work - you can put your hand on your turbine and it won’t burn you after a spirited drive. Try that without a turbo blanket (or even the factory heat shield below the decorative one) and you’ll have a reminder on your hand for the rest of your life 😆
Last edited by AlexZTuned; 07-15-2020 at 09:57 AM.
[QUOTE=AlexZT it’s a product intended to keep the heat generated by the turbos inside their turbine housings (and expelled through the downpipes/exhaust). [/QUOTE]
Listen, I know how it work and Agreed 100% with you if it design to completely wrap around the turbo exhaust side. This is jus a blanket laying on top like a half *** job what it intend to do.
If this doesn’t install confidence, then just look at PTP’s solution for the N/S63 Hot V - these guys are the industry leaders in turbo blankets and have had an independent study performed (by UT Austin) that showed actual tangible performance benefits to using a turbo blanket - this was discussed in another thread on the topic...
Why didn't BMW do this from the get-go? Why didn't Mercedes Benz do this from the get-go? You mentioned the cheap piece of metal covering the engines. That does nothing to protect anything other than the surface of the hood and it's paint. If turbo blankets are so important, why doesn't the 'blanket' wrap the entire surface of the turbo between the engine and the turbos themselves? From your pics it seems like it's showing baling wire wrapping the 'blanket' only around the top and sides.
Why didn't BMW do this from the get-go? Why didn't Mercedes Benz do this from the get-go? You mentioned the cheap piece of metal covering the engines. That does nothing to protect anything other than the surface of the hood and it's paint. If turbo blankets are so important, why doesn't the 'blanket' wrap the entire surface of the turbo between the engine and the turbos themselves? From your pics it seems like it's showing baling wire wrapping the 'blanket' only around the top and sides.
Can you show otherwise? Please.
People often ask why company X didn't do this from the factory. It's generally because they are designing to a set of requirements that don't necessitate that new change or feature. The OEM supplier deemed the turbo placement with their heat solution sufficient for the design application. When we mod our vehicles are are generally trying to improve something (performance, power, reliability, etc). The goal of this product is to reduce ambient engine bay temperatures while theoretically improving turbo performance. There is precedent set by PTP with their M5 blanket and was used as inspiration for this product.
Some of the main driving decisions as to why we designed it the way we did are as follows:
1. The single blanket blocks more heat into the rest of the engine bay which lowers IATs
2. This product will fit larger turbine housings
3. It is cheaper to produce and sell, giving our customers a more affordable option than two separate blankets.
Hopefully this answers everyone's questions. Please feel free to DM or respond here if you would like to discuss more.
People often ask why company X didn't do this from the factory. It's generally because they are designing to a set of requirements that don't necessitate that new change or feature. The OEM supplier deemed the turbo placement with their heat solution sufficient for the design application. When we mod our vehicles are are generally trying to improve something (performance, power, reliability, etc). The goal of this product is to reduce ambient engine bay temperatures while theoretically improving turbo performance. There is precedent set by PTP with their M5 blanket and was used as inspiration for this product.
Some of the main driving decisions as to why we designed it the way we did are as follows:
1. The single blanket blocks more heat into the rest of the engine bay which lowers IATs
2. This product will fit larger turbine housings
3. It is cheaper to produce and sell, giving our customers a more affordable option than two separate blankets.
Hopefully this answers everyone's questions. Please feel free to DM or respond here if you would like to discuss more.
Appreciate you developing for the platform! That being said, I would buy a two blanket setup in a heartbeat.
Hmmm .... then what were you thinking with an open element air intake kit that suck in hot air?
Our intake has proven performance gains shown on dyno and dragy. Our intake comes standard with heat shields that press against the bonnet to further deflect hot air. The blanket is another line of defense that will theoretically help any intake system; open, semi-open or closed.
Why didn't BMW do this from the get-go? Why didn't Mercedes Benz do this from the get-go?
Because in addition to adding cost, AMG and M can achieve their desired power targets and cooling without doing a drag-race style turbo blanket. No OEM that I know of comes with a turbo blanket from the factory, that doesn’t mean they’re not effective.
Here’s some food for thought, something that might get you thinking... I have a set of what appear to be prototype M17X turbochargers that have OEM heat wrap around the entire turbine housing to keep the heat retained inside the turbine housings. Our production units obviously don’t come this way, but AMG/Borg Warner were certainly up to something:
Last edited by AlexZTuned; 07-15-2020 at 05:07 PM.
People often ask why company X didn't do this from the factory. It's generally because they are designing to a set of requirements that don't necessitate that new change or feature. The OEM supplier deemed the turbo placement with their heat solution sufficient for the design application. When we mod our vehicles are are generally trying to improve something (performance, power, reliability, etc). The goal of this product is to reduce ambient engine bay temperatures while theoretically improving turbo performance. There is precedent set by PTP with their M5 blanket and was used as inspiration for this product.
Some of the main driving decisions as to why we designed it the way we did are as follows:
1. The single blanket blocks more heat into the rest of the engine bay which lowers IATs
2. This product will fit larger turbine housings
3. It is cheaper to produce and sell, giving our customers a more affordable option than two separate blankets.
Hopefully this answers everyone's questions. Please feel free to DM or respond here if you would like to discuss more.
WHY would we send you DM to hide your responses? Why can't we do this out in the open for all potential buyers/owners? You are offering products that show, in your opinion, that will improve this or that. Take a look at your decisions above: "3. It is cheaper to produce and sell". I believe some due-diligence is in order before I wrap the tops of the turbos and not wrap the bottoms. This 'traps' the heat and that heat will radiate downward onto the top of the hot V. It's IMHO, foolish to think this is a true insulated turbo wrap that cannot possibly harm our engines.
If you believe your own hype, why not offer insurance on your product that if there is engine damage, you will pay ALL costs to repair our vehicles, keeping in mind an engine for a C63S runs about $22,000.
Here’s some food for thought, something that might get you thinking... I have a set of what appear to be prototype M17X turbochargers that have OEM heat wrap around the entire turbine housing to keep the heat retained inside the turbine housings. Our production units obviously don’t come this way, but AMG/Borg Warner were certainly up to something:
Like the pic. Now that’s the right way if you’re going to wrap it. If oem start to do this, I don’t think it for power but just a better way To transfer the heat to keeping the engine bay temp down. There are many other way, the right way for the factory can do to gain more power rather just wrap turbo, DP ... etc.
WHY would we send you DM to hide your responses? Why can't we do this out in the open for all potential buyers/owners? You are offering products that show, in your opinion, that will improve this or that. Take a look at your decisions above: "3. It is cheaper to produce and sell". I believe some due-diligence is in order before I wrap the tops of the turbos and not wrap the bottoms. This 'traps' the heat and that heat will radiate downward onto the top of the hot V. It's IMHO, foolish to think this is a true insulated turbo wrap that cannot possibly harm our engines.
If you believe your own hype, why not offer insurance on your product that if there is engine damage, you will pay ALL costs to repair our vehicles, keeping in mind an engine for a C63S runs about $22,000.
Not to get into the middle of it - but because I either don't fully understand or fully agree with the theory here either I decided not to pursue the turbo planket route - so, if you don't agree with it, simply don't buy, its our choice and we know when we make that choice we take the responsibilities. Not any different than DP's, Tunes or Piggy Backs, Intakes, etc. There are non aftermarket mods anymore providing insurance, Renntech does not anymore, Dinan...maybe the last of the bunch but would not want to find out how good/robust that insurance is or if it becomes a battle between MB and Dinan with you and your broken AMG in the middle. It is what it is.
Maybe more should question vendors and products. There's, frankly, too much junk out there today. Quick mods for performance and enhancements. If a "sponsor" is going to post items for sale on this or any other forum, we, as owners, have a right (possibly in a duty) to ask pointed tough questions. It's not about making someone look bad or selling products or services here. It's about: Do I want to pay X dollars for a product that (a) I would definitely be in the market of buying if I felt it was an improvement, and (b), and most important it would Not cause damage to my $120,000 AMG vehicle.
I don't think that's asking too much here.
Remember the big stink here recently about Eurocharge and Ver.7(?) s/w upgrade? People complaining about the "either on or off gas pedal response".... We have a RIGHT to know what we're putting on our vehicles and any potential issues or problems that may come of that. Now, if we don't care for whatever reason and are willing to take that chance, then that's a different story. Unfortunately, I do care. So, I believe vendors and suppliers have an obligation to be forthright in their claims, graphs and charts. Enough have been called out over the years.
Maybe more should question vendors and products. There's, frankly, too much junk out there today. Quick mods for performance and enhancements. If a "sponsor" is going to post items for sale on this or any other forum, we, as owners, have a right (possibly in a duty) to ask pointed tough questions. It's not about making someone look bad or selling products or services here. It's about: Do I want to pay X dollars for a product that (a) I would definitely be in the market of buying if I felt it was an improvement, and (b), and most important it would Not cause damage to my $120,000 AMG vehicle.
I don't think that's asking too much here.
Remember the big stink here recently about Eurocharge and Ver.7(?) s/w upgrade? People complaining about the "either on or off gas pedal response".... We have a RIGHT to know what we're putting on our vehicles and any potential issues or problems that may come of that. Now, if we don't care for whatever reason and are willing to take that chance, then that's a different story. Unfortunately, I do care. So, I believe vendors and suppliers have an obligation to be forthright in their claims, graphs and charts. Enough have been called out over the years.
Bruce, I don't think we disagree on these points - to ask question and get answers is why we are on forums for the most part...my point was no matter what the onus is on us owners if something breaks..even if we wish it would not be but it is. So, ask all the questions you like - all okay and we all will make our decisions based on the answers.
WHY would we send you DM to hide your responses? Why can't we do this out in the open for all potential buyers/owners? You are offering products that show, in your opinion, that will improve this or that. Take a look at your decisions above: "3. It is cheaper to produce and sell". I believe some due-diligence is in order before I wrap the tops of the turbos and not wrap the bottoms. This 'traps' the heat and that heat will radiate downward onto the top of the hot V. It's IMHO, foolish to think this is a true insulated turbo wrap that cannot possibly harm our engines.
If you believe your own hype, why not offer insurance on your product that if there is engine damage, you will pay ALL costs to repair our vehicles, keeping in mind an engine for a C63S runs about $22,000.
Do you hear yourself? Asking for a full engine warranty from a turbo blanket? c'mon. Like another poster said, no aftermarket companies offer engine warranties unless you literally buy a built engine from them.
Also, the hot V already has a heat shield on the exhaust manifolds that blocks a ton of heat right back into the block, your concern with extra heat being trapped from the blanket and damaging the engine seems entirely unrealistic... how would that even happen? Let's consider a hypothetical situation where one moves the blanket on top of the heat shield that is already in place on the exhaust manifolds, would that make it any more dangerous for the block? All you would be doing is reducing more thermal radiation form the block upwards. The block is already red hot and designed for extreme temperatures.
These kinds of comments are the reason why everyone says mercedes has a crap aftermarket scene and tuners don't want to develop for them. IMHO the blanket seems like a simple and effective mod, if you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm all for doing due diligence but this seems pretty straight forward, it's not like the are porting nitrous into each cylinder and running 40lbs of boost.
Until I have better information on pros/cons and any cause/effect issues of it not completely covering the turbos, I will not be buying one myself. I will not take that chance. Nor could I afford to. I'll leave it there. I will say I'll begin to seach for a better way to wrap the turbos. Alex has given me some food for thought.
Until I have better information on pros/cons and any cause/effect issues of it not completely covering the turbos, I will not be buying one myself. I will not take that chance. Nor could I afford to. I'll leave it there. I will say I'll begin to seach for a better way to wrap the turbos. Alex has given me some food for thought.
As an alternative, you can always remove your turbochargers, disassemble the turbine housings, and ship them out to get professionally ceramic heat coated like Swaintech. Then reassemble the turbos, reinstall and boom you’re done just like that... and out at least $500 in just coating and shipping two turbine housings (that’s ignoring all the labor involved in installing/re-assembling). Pay a shop to do the labor and you can add a handful of hours on top of that cost.
In terms of cost/benefit, not many people are willing to go through that process and all that trouble (and cost) to ceramic coat turbine housings - at that price point you’d be better off throwing a blanket on. But no one is going to force you to do anything, you can always stay 100% stock since that’s how AMG intended and continue to assume that there’s no aftermarket parts that improve over OEM design, or concern yourself with potential issues installing any performance parts.
This is a pay to play game when it comes to modding, but for things a turbo blanket, or coating the turbo, it’s basic heat management mods that’s been done for years, decades even. If you’re that worried about it having detrimental effects, I wouldn’t consider modifying your car at all because a simple tune is putting WAY more stress on every single part of your drivetrain - from engine to the trans, driveshaft, diff and axles. A turbo blanket isn’t going to put additional stress on your turbochargers like a tune does by increasing duty cycle and increasing the boost over stock. It certainly will not warp heads and if you understood the heat shield manifold design, this would make sense to you.
As an alternative, you can always remove your turbochargers, disassemble the turbine housings, and ship them out to get professionally ceramic heat coated like Swaintech. Then reassemble the turbos, reinstall and boom you’re done just like that... and out at least $500 in just coating and shipping two turbine housings (that’s ignoring all the labor involved in installing/re-assembling). Pay a shop to do the labor and you can add a handful of hours on top of that cost.
In terms of cost/benefit, not many people are willing to go through that process and all that trouble (and cost) to ceramic coat turbine housings - at that price point you’d be better off throwing a blanket on. But no one is going to force you to do anything, you can always stay 100% stock since that’s how AMG intended and continue to assume that there’s no aftermarket parts that improve over OEM design, or concern yourself with potential issues installing any performance parts.
This is a pay to play game when it comes to modding, but for things a turbo blanket, or coating the turbo, it’s basic heat management mods that’s been done for years, decades even. If you’re that worried about it having detrimental effects, I wouldn’t consider modifying your car at all because a simple tune is putting WAY more stress on every single part of your drivetrain - from engine to the trans, driveshaft, diff and axles. A turbo blanket isn’t going to put additional stress on your turbochargers like a tune does by increasing duty cycle and increasing the boost over stock. It certainly will not warp heads and if you understood the heat shield manifold design, this would make sense to you.
07-15-2020, 12:15 AM
