rdrrua

Ok, the DPs are catted, but I guess the OPF is now gone, but still - is this really the AMG sound?

Hell, Audi's V8 sounds sooo much better out of the box.

What now? Spend USD6K on akrapovic or brabus just to check whether it makes the damn thing sound any better?

I would never, never buy a merc ever again after this. Exhaust sound for me is like 50% of weight in my decision to chose one car over another.

What have you done Mercedes!

ps. sorry for speaking in another language but it should be self-explanatory

SteveDesai

Sounds pretty good to me, of course catted is not gonna be as loud as catless.

I have a 2020 coupe with catless downpipe (rest of exhaust is still stock) and it sounds perfect. Super loud. Definetley better sounding that my old rs7 with Miltek non res.

Maybe go for catless or just add a cat back exhaust. If you still want more noise.

SteveDesai

And there is no way audis 4.0t sounds better out of the box. Ive had an s6 and an rs7 and both were insanely quiet stock. Even stock my facelift c63 was louder than those cars.

AlexZTuned

I installed DP's with 200 cell cats on my PFL coupe and the difference is insane combined with the ASR module that keep the valves open. I have to close the valves and put the car in comfort so I don't annoy the neighbors!

Catless would be even louder and IMO does not sound good, it gives the car too much unrefined rasp, especially on the upshifts. 200 cell cats are the perfect amount of volume for me - they can be loud as hell without sounding raspy, or dead silent/nearly stock when needed.

BrianShaw23

Same here. I had to change the renntech asr module to stock after catted dps. Car had all the sound you would want! I think catted sounds better too, mine sounds like the press release fl c63s now.

superswiss

AMG is just in compliance with regulations. Personally I find currently they still sound great. I actually prefer the sound of the FL as stated before (No OPF here in the USA as far as anyone can tell). I never was a fan of the childish artificial pops&bangs. The FL pops&bangs if you actually drive it hard. I'm not sure what car you have in mind for the future, because things are about to really change and everything up to a Lamborghini won't be allowed to be louder than a Ford Fiesta. Rory Reid has done a series of videos digging into the details. Below is one. There are some other ones that go into more detail of the new noise regulations. There are nuances to it. Emissions is another factor that affects this. Fiat has spun off Ferrari as an independent company, so they fall under the small volume and niche manufacturers which can skirt a lot of these rules. Ferrari for example gets to negotiate their own CO2 emissions reductions for their cars based on what's technically feasible. Rory talks about this in one of his other videos. AMG unfortunately is part of Daimler and they have to obey the most stringent rules due to the volume of cars they produce. The only way to avoid this would be for Daimler to spin off AMG into an independent low volume and niche manufacturer, and make sure they don't sell more than 10,000 cars a year.

tobeit

I decided some time ago already that I keep my PFL for a long time, these stories just emphasize why ...maybe sometime I switch to something else again but still keep my last of a generation C63s just because. One interesting point - do most high end cars really are leases like this guy says? Would not have expected that and instead most are owned outright or financed...but not leased.

superswiss

Yeah, I was just talking to my parents this morning who live in Europe and we talked about cars. I have a strong feeling the C63S might end up being my last new car for a while. Crossing fingers that it holds up, which so far is looking good. I've had more issues with my last car at this point. So far I really only had to do the 10k service with this one. For me it's also about the experience. I've done European Delivery with both of my last two cars, but I have a feeling the program will not survive COVD-19, and if it does it just won't be the same with electric cars in the future and future ICE cars will just be more and more neutered.

Regarding leasing, yes the majority of luxury and high end cars are indeed leased. He is also specifically talking about the UK, which has some very unique ways of financing cars. They have lots of different balloon type loan programs over there. It's how many buy their supercars over there.

elitex

Exactly. Not sure what this guy is going on about. He mentioned in another thread that he’ll go with an M5... LMAO.... Like it sounds better.

koifysh

Uhh no audi 4.0t doesn’t even compete on the sound department out of the box

FDNewbie

Yes, most high income earners lease, for a variety of reasons. The top 3 typically being:

1) Cash/liquidity is king. Instead of dropping a large sum of money in a purchase, you just need to cover the monthly lease payment = maximizing your liquidity.

2) Tax Benefits. Sure, you can take a car loan and only have to make small payments like a lease, but you can't write it off anywhere nearly as well as you can a (high end) lease, which affords you a steady expensive monthly payment (typically $1K/month and greater), which you can expense in its entirety (vs limited depreciation after the first few years) if you're an independent contractor/run your own business. There are, however, exceptions to the rule (eg purchased heavy SUVs, trucks, and vans are eligible for 100% first-year bonus depreciation).

3) Flexibility. High end leases are often open-ended leases. Meaning, you aren't stuck in a lease, having to finish out the payments/contract for a long period. You can swap cars within the same contract (of equal or greater value, provided you pay the difference in value between the two), or you can simply end the lease early (paying or netting the difference in market value and the lease residual value), and then enter into a new lease. On average, most high end clients change cars approx every 18 months.

Just my $0.02

tobeit

Interesting. I had leased before and moved away from it as I felt it was too restrictive for me. Also, lease terms are high for high-end cars, i.e. quick depreciation and high money factor makes leases often more expensive than financing deals (< 2%) (quote the opposite for your standard <$50k car). On taxes, I never looked into it but aren't there limits what kind of cars you can claim, i.e. I am sure its hard to convince the IRS you need Ferrari to get to your office. Just wondering but good to know. One thing I never liked on the lease a) have to put it back to stock before turning it in, b) cant sell/trade easily w/o taking a good hit (even with early lease termination clauses...you take a good hit). Anyway, I learned something.

elitex

Bmw leases are extremely attractive. I just saw a $160k M8 advertised for $999 plus taxes lease. That’s insane.

tobeit

how is that even possible? You can calculate what the residual would be and at any term (12/24/36) I can’t see how that can even pay for the depreciation of the car during the lease term. just do the math: 999x12 pays down 12k over a year. The car would have to have residual of more than $148k after a year. And that is not considering a lease money factor and fees.
Or you have $50k lease down payment...

elitex

Proof is in the pudding....

tobeit

Even though these are not quite the deals you mentioned ($160k for $999) they are still impressive and hard to understand from a finance point of view.

elitex

Ummmm am I missing something? Msrp is $160k....

tobeit

yes, the lease is not calculated based on MSRP but sales prices. Still super deals for $125k car and only $5k upfront. Not sure how they make the math works w/o loosing money.

PS: I had seen unbelievable lease deals in my area before just to find out that they were too good to be true.

elitex

Not so with Bmws. I’ve seen actual people getting insane deals on M4 CS etc. Point I am making is that you can get a $160k Msrp car for $1k on a lease. Doesn’t matter what they’re discounting it to. Still a $160k Msrp car.

tobeit

I get your point but MSRP does not mean a lot and in particular in the high end car sector. No car is sold at MSRP and does not reflect the true value of the car. True value is based on average sales price. In any case, I am not debating that these are insane deals on 125kish cars. I just can’t see how BMW does not loose money on them - after lease is over they can’t put them back in the market w/o loosing a ton of money on each. But I guess margins for luxury cars are still high enough to be able to do that...but what it really does is drastically devalue and deteriorate the value of these cars.

elitex

Oh man. I get it but it also shows you the level of car/equipment you’re getting. Msrp does mean a lot in any sector. I realize most people are not paying Msrp but it helps distinguish the level of car. Especially when the spread between base model and fully optioned out could be $50k plus. So yes Msrp matters. Again, hell of a deal for a $160k Msrp car.

Slowlane

What DP's with 200 cell cats did you install? Did you also do a tune? Thanks

AlexZTuned

They're no name brand downpipes with 200 cell cats, running no tune at the moment (previously had Dinan) so I have a CEL with it, but doesn't affect performance. I'm getting a flash tune next week that'll remove the CEL for stage 2/downpipes.

Here's a clip from today:

tobeit

i assume you are driving in sport +? Is it getting back to normal when in comfort? It’s nice to be able to do those pops but I would be annoyed if it’s there all the time. My sons car was popping and shooting like crazy and after a while even he turned it down (BMW allows that tune to your liking via MDH).

FDNewbie

Depends on what kind of lease you're talking about. So allow me to clarify.

Traditional Lease (eg through a manufacturer, like MBFS, BMW, etc):
- Closed lease (you've legally committed to all the payments throughout the term of the lease, unless you buy out/sell the car before lease end). Ie, you can't break the lease, unless there's a purchase/sale of the vehicle, or a third party takes over the lease for you
- MF is typically based on the car. Ie, standard MF is usually reasonable on normal cars, but then typically the manufacturers will charge a premium MF for their higher end vehicles (AMGs, M cars, etc) based on the "You gotta pay to play" or "because you can afford it" type of mentality.
- Has a set residual at the end of the term (and along the way) which does not fluctuate. This is because you're locked in to the residual based on the mileage allowance you've purchased. Hence why if you turn in the vehicle substantially over your mileage allowance, there's a penalty/mile, to account for the change in residual value you've caused. On the flipside, if you contract for 15K miles/yr, but only drive 8K/yr, you may come out on top and be able to sell the car for more than the residual and pocket the difference. Rare, but it happens. Typically, the house always wins.
- Only thing you owe at lease end is lease termination fee and damages.

Non-Traditional Lease
- Through private parties (third party companies) that specialize in vehicle leases. Typically for high end vehicles, typically $50K and up
- These leases are typically long term leases (60 months). BUT....
- They're open ended lease. Ie, you get an amortization schedule from day 1, listing the month, the payment due that month, and its effect on the residual value of the vehicle. This schedule is purely based on time (months) and money (payments). So you can break the lease at any point in time, and know how much you'll owe them for the car that month (based on the residual they've precalculated for you).
- As a result of that, the residual is INDEPENDENT of the mileage driven. So, if you drive it like you stole it, and put 25K miles/year on it, and then come to end the lease in year 2, you will owe a few grand between how much the market value of the vehicle is at that time with that mileage (ie what you can sell it for) and the precalculated residual they have. On the flipside, if you get a high end exotic for a steal, and it holds its value, and you drive it sparingly, you can very well sell it for more than the precalculated residual value, and essentially make money back at lease end. Note, no damages/wear and tear fees apply, cuz that simply affects your market value, and as such, the spread between how much you'll owe the lease company at lease termination/end.
- If you keep the lease until it matures (end of the lease), you either have to sell the car or purchase it yourself. Either way, you owe the lease company a balloon payment at that point, typically something like $15K - $45K, depending on the original purchase price of the vehicle (that balloon payment is a rough estimate for vehicles purchased for between $55K and $150K). You may think woah that's a lot of money. But if you sell the car, and pay them the balloon payment, you'll find that (even with high mileage, in rougher condition), that car is likely worth $10K+ more than that balloon payment. So you will make it back and likely recoup the last 1-2 years of your lease payments.

These open lease companies simply look at math, not the car. So they could care less if it's an AMG for an Enzo. They charge their profit margin, and that's it. So you don't get raped just cuz you have a nice car, as the ONLY cars they lease are nice cars

Absolutely not. What you choose as your mode of transportation is up to you, as long as your income and nature of work can substantiate it. In fact, this is why these companies exist. High end clients need high end writeoffs. Its no longer listed now, but just a few weeks ago, there was an AMG SLS Black Series listed for sale, and it clearly advertised a lease payment of $7900/month. That's not cuz someone thinks that's a good deal lol. It's cuz they need to burn through expenses as tax deductions, and wanna do it in something they're gonna enjoy while at it. Same way people expense their yachts & private jets (not that I have any experience with that LOL). And that is also why you'll find that the monthly payment is higher/month on these open ended leases (and why the terms are longer, 60 months ie the majority of the useful life of the vehicle) for maximal tax writeoff purposes. Tax-wise, the math (ie expense) makes sense. So it's not so much about getting the best deal, as it is in getting the biggest tax writeoff. And you can typically enter these leases with little to no money down. Why? Cuz again, downpayments are not tax deductible expenses..,

Again, not the case with open ended leases, cuz you're not dealing with or tied to a dealership or manufacturer. Just what you can sell/trade the car for.

Early lease termination fees are typically around $500 + 1 additional monthly payment. Not bad. And again, if you want to avoid that, you can do a lease substitution. Trade in your car at a dealer, and get any other vehicle for the same or greater value. Lease payment stays the same, remainder of contract term remains the same. You just pay the difference between trade-in and new vehicle purchase price. So you save on all the other fees (lease origination fee, tags, etc).

I hope it helps