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The vacuum source is any line that is on the intake manifold AFTER the throttle assembly. A T-fitting with hose clamps(!) is the normal method.
The proper term for these devices is "Priority Valve". They were first used on the 1986 M44/51 engined Porsche 944 turbo for improved throttle response. By t990 most two liter WRC qualifier proaction cars had them, Subaru WRX, Ford Escort RS, Mitsubishi Galant, 2nd gen Toyota Celica GT4 (the MR2 use the 3S-GTE motor as well) to name a few.
Are we sure we are not being sold a "performance" part that is redundant? I did read the 2018 M178 AMG TT V8 has a pair of electronic diverter or priority valves. The parts books show a pair of "solenoid valves" on the pervious TT V8 that are most probably Priority Valves. Solenoid valves would be more reliable and not depended on the linearity of pneumatic control logic such as traditional vacuum operated ones.
Purpose is to equalize the pressure on the high and low sides of the compressor wheel so it does not stall the the throttle is shut. Additionally, there a spring that slows the return to closed position, a very trick little idea that "'free wheels" the compressor momentarily so the turbine speed is greatly increased, providing boost as the throttle is re-opened. This effect is noticed a just about any throttle setting.
The "Blow-off" valve everyone seems to know about, but misunderstands was, in modern times first used on the Porsche 930 1100np flat-12. The inertia of the large, turbochargers, was such that shutting the slide throttles would so over-pressure the intake tract and the seams of the manifold could burst. That was the huge CHIRP! of every gear change. This is NOT a problem in road cars, yet for a long time every kid with a turbo wanted one. What the kids did not know was that the 917 (and 936) had two throttles, one on the low side and one on the high side of the compressor. The throttles were connected via a carefully adjusted mechanical link so the first set opened just slightly faster than the throttle valve behind the compressor. Then, someone at Porsche thought of the $45 dollar plastic Priority Valve.
Indeed the AMG TT V8 have them already, but for anyone wanting mechanical ones (with larger intercoolers) I suggest just using a pair 944T: Kayser 993 110 337 51 They were designed for the 2.5 liter motor and using a pair would work on any 4 to 5 liter V8. There is an aluminum replacement for some $100 dollars, but function is identical.
The vacuum source is any line that is on the intake manifold AFTER the throttle assembly. A T-fitting with hose clamps(!) is the normal method.
The proper term for these devices is "Priority Valve". They were first used on the 1986 M44/51 engined Porsche 944 turbo for improved throttle response. By t990 most two liter WRC qualifier proaction cars had them, Subaru WRX, Ford Escort RS, Mitsubishi Galant, 2nd gen Toyota Celica GT4 (the MR2 use the 3S-GTE motor as well) to name a few.
Purpose is to equalize the pressure on the high and low sides of the compressor wheel so it does not stall the the throttle is shut. Additionally, there a spring that slows the return to closed position, a very trick little idea that "'free wheels" the compressor momentarily so the turbine speed is greatly increased, providing boost as the throttle is re-opened. This effect is noticed a just about any throttle setting. I am somewhat surprised the AMG TT V8 does not use them(??), but I have never worked with the AMG V8 Mercs, so I do not have a clue if they do or do not.
The "Blow-off" valve everyone seems to know about, but misunderstands was, in modern times first used on the Porsche 930 1100np flat-12. The inertia of the large, turbochargers, was such that shutting the slide throttles would so over-pressure the intake tract and the seams of the manifold could burst. That was the huge CHIRP! of every gear change. This is NOT a problem in road cars, yet for a long time every kid with a turbo wanted one. What the kids did not know was that the 917 (and 936) had two throttles, one on the low side and one on the high side of the compressor. The throttles were connected via a carefully adjusted mechanical link so the first set opened just slightly faster than the throttle valve behind the compressor. Then, someone at Porsche thought of the $45 dollar plastic Priority Valve.
If indeed the AMG TT V8 does not have them already, I suggest just using a pair of them: Kayser 993 110 337 51 They were designed for the 2.5 liter motor and using a pair would work on any 4 to 5 liter V8. There is an aluminum replacement for some $100 dollars, but function is identical.
Thanks, I suppose using more boost could cause problems. But, I would leave a sleeping dog lay, these cars are so quick already...
I edited my post after getting curious....
I thought it was funny when the turbosmart valves come with a business card that says "Please visit our site for installation instructions". There are none.. I called Turbosmart directly, and the technical guy said "they just bolt in, plug in the simulators and away you go." When i asked specifically where they tapped vacuum he didn't know. "Australia developed the kit at a dealership and no one thought to document the installation."
Ok.... now the install. Order from your dealer A2780106001 Drill and tap it 1/8npt thread in a 1/8 npt to 1/4" hose barb into the top of it. Standard 1/8" npt drill size is 21/64" I went a couple sizes bigger to reduce the chance of the tap cracking the plug. I also added some epoxy to the threads just to make sure it seals well. If you screw up, buy another, or if you are confident you could buy none and just modify the one on your car. It will look just like the Weistec map adapter somebody posted a picture of in another thread, when you are done.
Next find said plug on the passenger side about midway back on the intake manifold pointing up. You can see it about 7"behind the coolant bottle.
Turn it clockwise around 45deg while depressing the locking tab so it can turn. The locking tab is slightly blocked from view by the upper cylinder head overhang, and sits around 12o clock when viewed from the passenger side. I used a pick to squeeze the locking tooth down so it could turn past the locking tab on the manifold. Once unlocked I had a difficult time pulling the plug out, so i gently pried it out with a small flatblade. The o ring gets a little stuck with the heat i guess.
Put in your drilled and tapped piece. Hook up a hose to it. Run the hose to the BOV's install a tee and connect to both valves. You can also choose to put a tee into the evap line as some have mentioned. That can work too. Or you could drill and tap the plug on both manifolds and run a single hose to each valve. The driver's side plug is a little harder to access
The valves themselves are straight forward. Take off your intakes and remove the 3 T30 fasteners holding the plastic wire harness down. That will allow enough wiggle room to re/re the valves
It's easiest if the engine is cold but it can be done under pressure after a 30 min drive with your daughter asking "Dad... how much lomger? Why do you keep burning yourself?"😉
Today we at Revtech automotive managed to fit the c63 turbosmart valves with no help from turbosmart technical as they just said they didn’t have instructions. We did as Ryan said by taking bung out of passenger side inlet manifold, tapped a tapered barb insert into bung and ran pipe work down from t piece by valves. Wasn’t too bad at all and the part number is what Ryan said but starting 278 not 270. They have stock in Germany so we have ordered some in to modify ready for the next set 👍 Passenger side of engine Bung tucked down side with yellow mark on Turn clockwise 90 degrees then pull out, bit tight on o ring. Bung with barb tapped in and epoxy on thread for double security
I spoke with turbosmart a while back about these. They are not sure if there is enough room to fit them, most likely plastic wiring ducts and other things in the way and isnt listed as compatible. Their support wasnt helpful. Would love to try these as I have heard the stock BOV's open prematurely before (VTA due to zac intakes) and dont want to convert to mechanical BOV's
GLC63ya no worries I’m sure we can sort some out. I’ll wait till I get the bungs in, maybe give us a shout on instagram or FB and we can arrange a set. We are doing a w205 c63 at moment for big power spec:
•Catless downpipes
• BMC filter inserts
•Turbosmart mechanical recirc valve with electrical blanking plugs as supplied.
• CSF charge cooling heat exchanger (radiator)
• Hybrid turbos custom done rated 800
• Going for mapping next week with figures and pics to follow 👌
I spoke with turbosmart a while back about these. They are not sure if there is enough room to fit them, most likely plastic wiring ducts and other things in the way and isnt listed as compatible. Their support wasnt helpful. Would love to try these as I have heard the stock BOV's open prematurely before (VTA due to zac intakes) and dont want to convert to mechanical BOV's
If you scroll down on the product page under "Other Data" it actually says its compatible in the application list.
If you scroll down on the product page under "Other Data" it actually says its compatible in the application list.
Good to know, wonder when it was added, thanks. Still dont think they would be a drop in, the plastic wire runners at the very least would have to be cut or removed most likely.
GLC63ya no worries I’m sure we can sort some out. I’ll wait till I get the bungs in, maybe give us a shout on instagram or FB and we can arrange a set. We are doing a w205 c63 at moment for big power spec:
•Catless downpipes
• BMC filter inserts
•Turbosmart mechanical recirc valve with electrical blanking plugs as supplied.
• CSF charge cooling heat exchanger (radiator)
• Hybrid turbos custom done rated 800
• Going for mapping next week with figures and pics to follow 👌
I may take you guys up on that offer, I appreciate it.
Just out of curiosity, do you know where the evap line is located as another option?
I spoke with turbosmart a while back about these. They are not sure if there is enough room to fit them, most likely plastic wiring ducts and other things in the way and isnt listed as compatible. Their support wasnt helpful. Would love to try these as I have heard the stock BOV's open prematurely before (VTA due to zac intakes) and dont want to convert to mechanical BOV's
DM me @deftronix we can sort something with our Turbosmart RacePort for existing customers
If you wanted to go into the vac system a different way you can go onto passenger side and in one of the last pictures in my earlier post there are 2 rubber hoses at bottom of shot. If you trace the line that goes over to drivers side that’s the one you can cut into a take a feed. It’s about a 2inch piece of hose then into hard plastic with valve. We chose to do it other way as then if wanted easily returned to stock with out any damage 👍
Installed the Dual port electronic due to running ECU Tune and JB4 and other mods with big boost and getting boost spikes. These have helped rid the spikes.
BUT the engine temps have risen major due to charged air (HOT) being vented to atmosphere were these are located. Engine temps up +10 degrees.
There are semi hard to install. Need to cut the casing to the loom for the fixtures to screw back in. Tight fit.
So if not running big boost get the other.
They sound super quiet and yes the factory items leak. These will bring on boost faster and hold it better.
Installed the Dual port electronic due to running ECU Tune and JB4 and other mods with big boost and getting boost spikes. These have helped rid the spikes.
BUT the engine temps have risen major due to charged air (HOT) being vented to atmosphere were these are located. Engine temps up +10 degrees.
There are semi hard to install. Need to cut the casing to the loom for the fixtures to screw back in. Tight fit.
So if not running big boost get the other.
They sound super quiet and yes the factory items leak. These will bing on boost faster and hold it better.
Are the two black hose to the intake still used after the bov swap?
Installed the Dual port electronic due to running ECU Tune and JB4 and other mods with big boost and getting boost spikes. These have helped rid the spikes.
BUT the engine temps have risen major due to charged air (HOT) being vented to atmosphere were these are located. Engine temps up +10 degrees.
There are semi hard to install. Need to cut the casing to the loom for the fixtures to screw back in. Tight fit.
So if not running big boost get the other.
They sound super quiet and yes the factory items leak. These will bing on boost faster and hold it better.
Suggest data log P2 temperature, T3 temp and ignition timing. 10 degree coolant rise has an internal cause.
Yes, the black hoses (recirculate charged air) that plumb into the air intakes are still used. that's why these are call Dual Port.
1. Port being Vented To Atmosphere
2. Port being vented To Recirculation
The black hoses you ask about are the recirculation hoses.
The hot charged air before was being doused back into the system now some of it is vented out of these.
Everything under bonnet is now a lot hotter.
Yes, the black hoses (recirculate charged air) that plumb into the air intakes are still used. that's why these are call Dual Port.
1. Port being Vented To Atmosphere
2. Port being vented To Recirculation
The black hoses you ask about are the recirculation hoses.
The hot charged air before was being doused back into the system now some of it is vented out of these.
Everything under bonnet is now a lot hotter.
I thought with the dual ports you have the ability to make it 100% recirc or 100% atmosphere (with setting to go in between). Maybe try setting them to full recirculation to the intake and see if that improves under hood temps.
07-07-2020, 04:56 PM
