New here and have been contemplating moving on from my e90 m3. Ive grown up with all sorts of typical muscle cars and have been wanting a torquey car but obviously something that handles well below 50k, so down to the C63s and possibly the F80 M3 but honestly don't like the look of the car as I could mix it up for a WRX at odd angles. I like the simple look of the W205 C63 which rivals my e90 m3. I got a chance to drive a 2017 c63s 4 door and the sound and torque was exactly what im after although it was hard to modulate the throttle from a standstill and not sure if this is a common issue. The car was firmer over bumps but felt a tad floaty during quick directionality changes as im guess is due to the weight of the car and not as composed as the M3 which I can probably overlook. So where im going with this is that I realize there was a facelift in 2019 and wondering if the updates address some of this and does it make sense to spend the extra 10k or so on a 2019 than say a 16-17 model. Im familiar with the changes which seem mostly tech related but don't know if they affect drivability.

Also im an avid diyer and am wondering how reliable these are compared to the M3. My M3 has been mechanically strong but prone to odd sensor and electrical issues which were pretty easily resolved. Ive priced brakes, plugs, filters and they all seem inline with what I spend on my M3.

Wouldn't mind any input and thoughts from some of you guys.

Thanks for the help, Kal

 

The three major changes to the FL besides the obvious tech upgrades are the new 9-speed MCT transmission, revised suspension and the 9-stage traction control system from the GT R (C63S only). The FL drives differently from the PFL. It's somewhat subdued in the sound department, but it drives better overall thanks to the new transmission, suspension and traction control. The sound is subjective. I personally prefer the sound of the FL. You get more of the quality V8 sound instead of the childish artificial pops&bangs, but there are plenty of threads on that.

The 9-speed, IMO, is a major improvement over the 7-speed. It shifts faster and better and the manual mode is properly responsive. I don't find the throttle hard to modulate at all from a stop. The 7-speed starts in 2nd gear in Comfort mode, which I never liked. The 9-speed always starts in 1st, for a much better response and control off the line. The highlight is the suspension, though. All new dampers and they reworked many parts of the chassis and revised how the dynamic engine mounts (C63S only) work. The result is a much more compliant ride in Comfort, yet more dynamic in Sport+ while still not harsh as long as you use the proper tire pressures.

Another highlight is the 9-stage traction control straight from the GT3 via the GT R. It's the first TC system that I've experienced that actually helps me get more out of the car instead of being a fun killer. You don't even have to bother controlling the levels yourself, especially since that is only possible if ESP is fully turned off, but it just does a so much better job at controlling wheel slip. FWIW, I passed on the 2018 and went for the 2019 when it came out. It improved all the things that I didn't like about the 2018. The tech improvements speak for themselves, but one of the best things IMO is the new AMG Drive Unit that lets you control all the drive mode functions directly from the steering wheel. It changes the driving experience.

If you do get a 2019, make sure it has gotten all the software updates. There's a recall for the ESP system, and 2 updates for the AMG Drive Unit that fix issues with the dynamic engine mounts and the rear locking differential. They made a difference to my car and it's somewhat disappointing it had these issues from the factory.

 

Or you can get a E63S and really get busy .
I traded in my C63S for a E63S.
All I can say is wow !
No regrets.
That's also something you may want to look at.
Good luck.

 

Thanks greatly appreciate the feedback. Ill test drive a 19-20 facelift model as some of these are coming off of lease and still have the warranty remaining.

Curious how is diy as to maintenance items such as plugs, the various oil/fluid changes on these cars? I cant tell if most folks here just use the dealer due to unique procedures out of the scope of the typical diyer?

Thanks again.

 

I’m in your exact shoes right now. Coming from an E90 M3 6mt, I just can’t get my self around the F80. The G model is supposed to be every bit better than the f80, except the front end looks. This C63S is supposedly the last of the V8 turbos, which I think will hold similar characteristic value like the v8 of the e9x M3.

 

I have done DIY maintenance on every vehicle I have ever owned, and this one will be no different. I recently installed new brake pads, rotors, wear sensors and fluid - it is a straight forward process. I bought new plugs and will do that before I tune the car although it seems to be a bit of a pain to do the rear plugs on this car. Oil changes are about $150 so I just take it to a shop for that.

 

Same, I did rear rotors/pads, and pulled the front brakes to check wear. Very easy to do. Fluid swap too. Did the MCT fluid/filter swap on my W204; this one is virtually identical (though I had the dealer do it on my W205).

 

In an e90 M3 DCT likely going to a C63s coupe in the near future. Wondering the same thing if the FL is worth the premium over PFL. In for comments.

 

ya but this is a huge price jump. Or basically 2 years older to match price

 

Go for what feels right to you and stay within your comfort levels. While I hear the bravado that the FL models are supposedly soo much better, take it with a grain of salt. Fundamentally the cars are very similar with some normal model evolvement. Now, anybody who bought a FL or a PFL will argue for each version and there are probably real pro/contra for each...but in large they are the same car.
I have driven both (currently driving a FL but my own car is PFL). The 9 speed transmission does not transform the car into something totally different...I can't say its any smoother or dramatically different, its in the nuances and sure no difference on your way to the grocery store. Its not like the 7 speed was trash either. Similar, the OPF does not make the FL sound horrible or loose its distinct sound all together. Its a bit subdued but again, all relative. The digital display is nice but nothing on there I am missing on the FL display (I don't need tire temperature...nice, but generations of racers did not need it either), Actually, to so happens I find the "sport" design mode display most pleasing...which imitates what the FL display looks like or very close. Yes, there are other differences like the numerous additional dynamic settings...maybe something for someone who wants to race to gain 0.1 of a second or fiddle with the settings every day just to have fun. Nice yes, game changer not. I don't do neither and I flip between my preference in I and C - that's it. Again, you expect that the FL has further refinements (aka nuances on a grand scheme of things for daily driver at least) or it would not be a mid-model FL. Btw, while talking nuances, for some reason I feel the FL steering wheel looks and feels skinnier...did not measure it but sure feels that way.

So, go find that low mileage, well maintained PFL within your budget and enjoy it every day. I cant wait to be back in my PFL...not because its a PFL per se but because its my ride and it's modified to my taste.

 

ya I was referring to the comment about jumping into the E63S over the C63S. The E63 is amazing but I was just stating it’s a huge jump in price.

 

The PFL sounds much more aggressive than the FL models. If sounds is a deciding factor you will be happier with the PFL. Outside of that i would drive both and see which feels better to you both suspension and shifting. One has a 7speed the other has a 9speed.
I personally have the 2016 PFL, have driven the FL model and don't feel i am missing anything, especially with a tune and downpipe. Just my 2 cents.

- Oliver

 

This is the first car I've had with a digital display and it's a game changer for me. For my next car I'll be looking to get another one.

The track pace is all kinds of awesome, you can save a favorite route and then it will tell you on the HUD the best line to take, brake points etc. Plus all the saved tracks. Brilliant.

The multiple configurations are brilliant, you've got to spend time with it to get the best out of it. Economy trip, your covered, directions, covered, hoon, no problem, there's a set up for that. Years ago we all used to buy 52mm dials to monitor every output, now its on a configurable display, every petrol heads dream.

The steering wheel buttons are the ones I use the most, quick thumb press to I and all hell breaks loose. Quick turn back to C, Race mode gives a lot more pops and bangs too if you like that sort of thing.

But the headlights! The highbeam assist plus is seriously good, splitting the beam, welcome pattern, high beam on pattern, turning lights etc

if you buy a PFL, everytime you get in and look at that pokey little ipad 1 on the dash, you'll wish you pony'd up for a FL.

 

Some might but not me.

I am more interested in how the car drives rather than the tech, of which my car has more than I realistically need. I definitely don’t like the idea of fake sound, so will happily put up with my “iPad” to avoid that.

 

I guess you should have bought a Tesla S or have to switch to the W206 very soon - both have much bigger displays.

 

But with the FL you get the tech and the V8, with a decent ride. I'm selling mine reluctantly, but I think it might be the only C63 to hold much of its value going forward.

 

Thanks all for your input. I got a chance to drive a 2019 at euromotor cars bethesda and well frankly didn't find it too different than the 2016 I drove in the fundamental sense. What was obvious to me was the steering wheel was busier and I noticed in race mode, the 19 didn't produce exhaust popping on deceleration, so the exhaust was somewhat subdued. The screen was obviously larger but I was hardly looking at while driving. I couldn't really tell a difference in handling in normal and sport mode but one car was on michelins and the other on continentals. What bugs me about the W205 body is that although the ride is firm on both the 16 and 19, there is a strange yaw to the car with quick lane changes in normal and sport mode. I didn't try the other modes but am not the type to switch between them under normal driving.

I actually also drove a F80 M3 Comp model yesterday as I think its good to make sure to gauge the competition and ensure there are no buyers remorse. What ive come to realize about thes F80 and W205 cars is that you really have to go what matters the most to you as there is no obvious winner here. Its amazing the amount of usable torque these cars have, and on tap anytime. I was breaking traction easily on corner exit. Reminded me a lot of the torque of the Tesla Model 3 comp package.

Although the 19 has some nice updates, the price difference seems to be a tad over 20k between a 2016 and 2019 and I cant justify it as it won't be practical to me in everyday ordinary driving. I know no two people are alike so this will be a personal decision on which way you want to go.

 

FWIW, what I've found with the 205 is that you have to set it up properly for dynamic driving such as quick lane changes. The 19 specifically has 4 configurable chassis modes. The system is called AMG DYNAMICS and it's freely configurable in the Individual mode. You have to have it in Pro or Master if you want the best dynamics, that means S+ or Race and ESP in Sport Handling mode to unlock Master. I think I know what you are talking about with the strange yaw. I never use Sport, but I don't like Comfort at higher speeds unless I'm just cruising along. For highway driving I use Individual mode with the chassis in Pro, the suspension in Sport and everything else set to the corresponding S+ settings. I also keep the transmission in manual mode. I constantly go between Comfort and Individual. Comfort for city, town driving and Individual on the highway and open road. Race mode in the canyons for ***** out driving. In the 19 with the AMG Drive Unit to activate the Individual mode you just have to push the drive mode dial on the steering wheel, and then it's one click to the right to get back to Comfort. In the F80 the equivalent is setting up your M1/2 buttons to put the car into proper setup for dynamic driving. The default configuration it starts up with isn't particularly dynamic in the F80, either. Comfort mode in the 205 is more of a grand touring mode at least in the 19.

 

I have the S205 C63S and my wife an F80 M3 Competition, so I feel well placed to comment.

They are both excellent and have similar performance, but their characters are very different. The M3 is slightly more track focused despite being slightly more comfortable on poor roads (my 63 or PFL and runs on Eibachs). The 63 has it from a sound and power delivery point of view, the engine being what the car is built around, whilst the S55 in the M3 is competent. It has an MPE and still can’t compete with the 63. Sometimes when I drive it it feels slow revving until you look at the tachometer. The interior of the M3 feels better put together and I prefer the sat nav.

The 63 is my daily driver and with being the T model, is so practical-much better for my dog than the M3...until a touring comes out of course....

 

Your comparing a 2016 to a 2019, that's where the bulk of the price difference is, its not the difference between PFL and FL. A 2018 PFL is around 48k, I've got mine up for 53k, it was the same when I bought, I was looking at 2018 PFL for 49k and bought a FL for 55k, it's only ever really been 5-6k price difference between the 2 cars, which for me makes it a no brainer. If your justifying not buying one because it's 20k cheaper, well crikey, that's the benefit of buying a car that's 3 years older with no warranty!

I've been offered 49.5k by a dealer, so in 20 months I've lost around 5k. This will be the cheapest car I've ever had. Who said mercs depreciate. Mine's also the cheapest FL PP S available in the UK and still has a years warranty.