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I've been putting off writing this thread for ~45 days so here goes nothing. It was the last weekend in March...on Saturday (3/27) I went out for a spirited drive in my C63s. After ~45 minutes of driving, my car starts idling rough and I notice smoke bellowing from the exhaust, but no CEL. I drive back to the house and being somewhat familiar with engines, I check the engine oil and it's low. I ended up adding 2+ quarts of oil but not once did I get a message to add oil. I then drive it to my independent shop which is owned by a master Mercedes mechanic and leave it as I'm leaving for vacation the following day. On Thursday, I get a call saying that I have damage to cylinder 4 and since my car is still under "warranty" they'd recommend I take it to Mercedes.
Mercedes doesn't have any loaners available for 10 days so I rent a car. It's a Chrysler 300 - I didn't like it and neither did my kids. Anyway, on April 28th I drop my car off at the dealership and get a loaner - it's a 2014 E350, better than the Chrysler 300. On Monday, May 3rd (my birthday) I get a call from my service advisor telling me that Mercedes isn't going to warrantee the work because the vehicle's been tuned. She went on to say that I didn't want to know the cost of a new engine. As it turns out, a new engine is ~$83,000 - no thanks. She asks me what I want to do and I tell her I want a list of options and I'll base my decision on the one that makes the most financial sense.
I get a call last Friday saying that unfortunately there aren't many options. A long block isn't available and they couldn't provide a contact for anyone who might be able to rebuild the engine. She asks what I want to do at which point I tell her that it's probably time for me to escalate with MBUSA which I've still yet to do. My 2018 E63s was a lemon which MBUSA ultimately repurchased - it took a while so this should be fun!
So...chicken or the egg? Was oil loss the result of cylinder failure or did the cylinder fail because it wasn't getting sufficient oil? These engines naturally consume oil but hard to say whether it's the former or the latter. It's an easy out for Mercedes: the car is tuned so easy for them to use that and say NO to warranty work. The dealership seems to think cylinder 4 was getting too much fuel and that's what caused to cylinder to fail.
I've gotten CEL's before when tuned so none of this explains the lack of CEL or notification to add engine oil. In fact, when I dropped my car at the dealership, there was still NO check engine light. I've attached a picture of the cylinder 4 spark plug; she nasty. I've also attached video from the scope where you can see the damage to the cylinder wall.
Curious what MBWorld would do in my shoes and appreciate any advice.
Gotta pay to play as they say. Not sure what you expect to get from MBUSA, but your engine was operating outside of factory specs due to the tune, so your warranty is void. These engines don't have known oil problems. Mine doesn't burn a drop of oil and I drive it hard. It's refreshing after two Audis that burnt up to a quart per 1000 miles, which they say is normal.
Sounds to me like you should also be having a discussion with your tuner, Velos. Unfortunately, you can escalate all you want, but your tune and modifications (even catless downpipes) will void your warranty. MB ironically voided my powertrain warranty on the last day of my factory warranty because I had 200 cell catted downpipes installed and they're very clear in their legal disclosures that you are SOL if you tune or modify emissions.
Curious if you've ever changed plugs or when the last time you changed oil was? Did you check the dipstick for low oil or did you check via the instrument cluster? That's a ton of metal shavings and you can visible see the oil on the spark plug threads.
Pay to play my friend. Either source and buy a good used short block (or long block if you need to, who knows if the heads are damaged), or you can find someone to re-build your engine with forged internals which is not worth the effort and cost if you're not planning to run crazy amounts of power. If you're lucky, maybe the cylinder wall can be honed slightly and cleaned and you can use stock pistons. You won't know until you open up the engine to see the full extent of the damage - but that's an out-of-pocket engine replacement or rebuild. Used engines are $10-$15k.
Last edited by AlexZTuned; 05-12-2021 at 01:35 PM.
Also, oil consumption isn't an issue on the M177. There were faulty oil level sensors in early W205 builds that would falsely indicate low oil in the cluster, but when checking the actual dip stick it would show otherwise. The 6.2l from the W204 on the other hand... now that was an oil burner.
Also, oil consumption isn't an issue on the M177. There were faulty oil level sensors in early W205 builds that would falsely indicate low oil in the cluster, but when checking the actual dip stick it would show otherwise. The 6.2l from the W204 on the other hand... now that was an oil burner.
i came from a p31 6.2 and was beat to hell with over 100 passes and never needed to add oil to it.. no idea where you got you info from..
If anything that car was a gas burner lol
So, 28k miles. How long did you have the Velos tune and did you keep the tune on when turning it in to service? I am asking as I gave my Velos tune for about a year and have 26k miles now (10k with tune). The Velos tune seems to not be the most aggressive tune and I just got an updated tune after MB updated the ECU SW during last service.
Its a bummer and ridiculous to get the answer it would cost $83k to replace the motor. I would be very, very pissed. Hope you can find one online and have a shop who can replace it for maybe 20k total but even that is a huge bill I hate to see anybody pay. Good luck friend!
Depending on the damage to the cylinder wall, a very light hone and new rings on that piston may be all you need (check bearings while at it due to low oil). I would find an indy shop that can perform this work. It will not be cheap from a labor standpoint, but far cheaper than a new long block/short block.
So, 28k miles. How long did you have the Velos tune and did you keep the tune on when turning it in to service? I am asking as I gave my Velos tune for about a year and have 26k miles now (10k with tune). The Velos tune seems to not be the most aggressive tune and I just got an updated tune after MB updated the ECU SW during last service.
Its a bummer and ridiculous to get the answer it would cost $83k to replace the motor. I would be very, very pissed. Hope you can find one online and have a shop who can replace it for maybe 20k total but even that is a huge bill I hate to see anybody pay. Good luck friend!
I've had the Velos tune for 2 years now without issue. My indy shop can handle the rebuild and they're also a Weistec dealer. I think I'm going to go the rebuild route with Weistec forged internals and W4 turbo upgrade and turn this thing into a dedicated track car.
I've had the Velos tune for 2 years now without issue. My indy shop can handle the rebuild and they're also a Weistec dealer. I think I'm going to go the rebuild route with Weistec forged internals and W4 turbo upgrade and turn this thing into a dedicated track car.
well, good for you if you have those options. I sure would also use upgraded turbos if my OEM would somehow blow one day.
I hear horror stories like this all too often. Anyone that is doing modifications like this run a big risk. MBUSA, BMWUSA, and others will use almost any excuse not to cover a warranty repair. One of their cars that have been modified makes their decision to void the warranty an easy one. The performance and sound of a stock C63s is great. If a consumer wants more performance than this model will provide, they should look at other options. The driving pleasure of this car would be completely negated if I had to worry about expensive repair costs not covered under warranty due to modifications.
Curious what MBWorld would do in my shoes and appreciate any advice.
Sorry to hear about this unusual situation you're in.
If it was my car, I'd f*ck the warranty and Mercedes dealer off, take the car to a Mercedes indy, buy a long motor second hand and get it in the car.
If your looking for the fastest and cheapest option have a look around on Craigslist or Ebay for an M177 engine for around 10-12k, get it delivered to the workshop of your choice and change the whole damn thing.
I've done this in the past on another vehicle I've owned.
No point dicking around with Mercedes, escalating matters or getting a rebuild either.
That's what I would do if this happened to me.
Last edited by Jimmy_c63s; 05-13-2021 at 01:37 AM.
I agree with Jimmy. A rebuild, especially with forged internals, is going down the rabbit hole. You will easily end up paying double or triple the cost of just buying a long block and dropping it in.
worst case - swap in a 2JZ TT - kidding kidding - really unfortunate that this happened - i'd escalate to the tuner too, but don't think they will do much either.
I don't think any of the proposed solutions sound very appealing. What's the mileage on one of these blocks going for $10-$20k on eBay? I don't think I'd want a block that has double or tripple the mileage of the car itself. New M177 engines are indeed crazy expensive. Not sure if anyone still remembers the guy from AutoVlog I think his YouTube channel is called, who hydrolocked his first C63 and he was also quoted north of $70k for a new engine so his insurance totaled the car. Looks like somebody bought it and rebuilt it and it was running again.
I personally would ever only consider tuning my car with somebody who matches the new car warranty such as CarBahn or wait until warranty has run its course and all the potential issues have had time to shake out.
FInd a proper engine shop and rebuild it. First step is to scope the cylinders and see what you're actually dealing with. Next find a shop and get the work and parts in writing along with the type of warranty they will offer. Make sure you have labor included to remove the engine in case.
At the end of the day any professional race/engine builder should be able to handle a car like this. When my dad was alive he would always take in high end engines and rebuild them to customer spec.
It has nothing to do with the manufacturer. They do their best to engineer the engine for optimal efficiency based on specific HP/TQ requirements set by the marketing team. Look at what BMWs are going though with their engines from 2000's until today. My M5 engine exploded 2 cylinders, and it was stock down to OEM air filters. I ended up doing a full forged rebuild but that had issues too. its all down to the shop...
When you tune a car to max HP/TQ numbers causing it causes the tuner to push up to or beyond the limit of what the fuel system and intake/exhaust systems are designed to support you will always run into trouble. It is super simple to push turbo cars beyond their max capability.
Thats why I like my tune, its light and keeps all the safety systems.
05-12-2021, 01:11 PM
