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Is this Normal ?
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1. Wake up 6am .. Vegas heat 100' outside
2. Cold start C63 until idle
3. Drive off , allowing the temps and engine flush white
4. Hit the freeway , and the turbos seem gone , that push is non existent?
I can literally push the peddle to the floor and still be 90MPH ...
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No error codes, no limp mode
Car runs fine, just the power seems decreased ...
Made an apt at the dealerships , wondering what you guys have experienced with really hot weather that lingers for 24hrs
Not sure about your C63, but on my E400, when it is really hot, the air conditioning compressor runs full bore a lot more, and I can really feel the drag the compressor places on the engine. It sometimes feels like I'm pulling a big trailer. . .
If I'm going to need all the power the engine can make, I sometimes turn the air conditioner off for a minute.
Your intake temps must be 150 degrees lol. You have a few options.
1 split the cooling with the ptg setup that blocks engine coolant mixing with the intercoolers and install bigger heat exchangers..
2 move lol
For either leaving the car bone stock OR just doing a Stage 1 tjne, such as Renntech, is the upgrade to the cooling system necessary/noticeably beneficial? Or will stock components get the job done,
Is this Normal ?
================================================== =
1. Wake up 6am .. Vegas heat 100' outside
2. Cold start C63 until idle
3. Drive off , allowing the temps and engine flush white
4. Hit the freeway , and the turbos seem gone , that push is nonexistent?
I can literally push the peddle to the floor and still be 90MPH ...
================================================== =
No error codes, no limp mode
Car runs fine, just the power seems decreased ...
Made an apt at the dealerships , wondering what you guys have experienced with really hot weather that lingers for 24hrs
You are fine. Take it from the guy that lives in 117^ heat every day. Your car has safety features built in to protect it like A/C Off if overheating, A/C clutch release when at Wide Open Throttle, Timing retard based on water temp and inlet air temp.
Timing retard is most likely what you are experiencing. It’s so hot out that the ECM pulls back timing and your butt dyno feels the lack of thrust.
Hope you had fun in Lost Wages
Originally Posted by SteveE400
Not sure about your C63, but on my E400, when it is really hot, the air conditioning compressor runs full bore a lot more, and I can really feel the drag the compressor places on the engine. It sometimes feels like I'm pulling a big trailer. . .
If I'm going to need all the power the engine can make, I sometimes turn the air conditioner off for a minute.
Same as above – our cars have safety features built in to protect it like A/C Off if overheating, A/C clutch release when at Wide Open Throttle, Timing retard based on water temp and inlet air temp.
Originally Posted by skratch77
Your intake temps must be 150 degrees lol. You have a few options.
1 split the cooling with the PTG setup that blocks engine coolant mixing with the intercoolers and install bigger heat exchangers.
I don’t think he is there yet
Originally Posted by Speeddoc
For either leaving the car bone stock OR just doing a Stage 1 tine, such as Renntech, is the upgrade to the cooling system necessary/noticeably beneficial? Or will stock components get the job done,
Upgrade is ALWAYS good. However, you do not need to modify the cooling system unless you just want the car to be on blast 24/7. I can make 4 or 5 bonzi runs with no issues. Then I can feel the car retarding and I just drive normal for a few miles and let the intake temps drop. Even if you are in 60^ inlet (outside) temps, repeated blasts will ultimately over leverage the heat exchanger cooling until you chill out for a moment.
Keep in mind Mercedes could have easily created a divorced cooling system for the turbos but “me thinks” it has to do with emissions. They need the air temps to be stabilized to pass smog. My next mod is for sure a divorced heat exchanger for my turbos. I know it will not make more power but it will allow me to make the same insane PTG power for an extended period of time.
Compound all that with the fact my pops just upped his 992.2 Turbo Porsche to 730 AWD HP and I will need all the advantages I can get to tame that beast.
If the cooling system for the turbos is not separate in stock form, as you suggested it may for purpose of passing emissions, then wouldnt upgrading to a separate intercooler for the turbos risk failing a smog test?? I ask because I live in Fresno, CA, where the temps can, and typically are,, fairly brutal from July to September.
This doesn't just happen to turbo charged engines. Heat is the enemy of combustion engines for multiple reasons. First off, hot air is much less dense than cold air, so there is less oxygen getting into the combustion chamber for every stroke resulting in lower power output. A similar effect happens at high altitude with the air getting thinner. The turbo chargers are also more likely to surge if the intake air is already hot. A common mod that some people do is an aftermarket cold air intake exactly for this, or meth injection to bring in cooler air, but if your ambient air temp is already over a 100, it's not gonna get much cooler. Turbo charged engines to some degree are less prone to the fluctuation in the air density as they can adjust the boost level to bring in more air, but there are limits and bringing in more air means higher air compression, which in turn means higher air temperatures, so you are back to square one. It works better to compensation for altitude. The ECU will also make the fuel mixture richer as the evaporating fuel cools the combustion chambers, but a rich fuel mixture doesn't burn as well, hence making less power. Every machine has its sweet spot when it comes to temperature. Too cold, and things get too tight, too hot and there is heat soaking and surging. Just like our human bodies. We don't do so well in the heat, either, nor in the cold.
Last edited by superswiss; 07-11-2021 at 11:37 PM.
This doesn't just happen to turbo charged engines. Heat is the enemy of combustion engines for multiple reasons. First off, hot air is much less dense than cold air, so there is less oxygen getting into the combustion chamber for every stroke resulting in lower power output. A similar effect happens at high altitude with the air getting thinner. The turbo chargers are also more likely to surge if the intake air is already hot. A common mod that some people do is an aftermarket cold air intake exactly for this, or meth injection to bring in cooler air, but if your ambient air temp is already over a 100, it's not gonna get much cooler. Turbo charged engines to some degree are less prone to the fluctuation in the air density as they can adjust the boost level to bring in more air, but there are limits and bringing in more air means higher air compression, which in turn means higher air temperatures, so you are back to square one. It works better to compensation for altitude. The ECU will also make the fuel mixture richer as the evaporating fuel cools the combustion chambers, but a rich fuel mixture doesn't burn as well, hence making less power. Every machine has its sweet spot when it comes to temperature. Too cold, and things get too tight, too hot and there is heat soaking and surging. Just like our human bodies. We don't do so well in the heat, either, nor in the cold.
If the cooling system for the turbos is not separate in stock form, then would upgrading to a separate intercooler for the turbos, or creating a separate cooling circuit for the turbos, risk failing a smog test?? Would such a mod void the warranty? Does anybody have experience with altering their intercoolers on MB and if so does it void your warranty?
If the cooling system for the turbos is not separate in stock form, then would upgrading to a separate intercooler for the turbos, or creating a separate cooling circuit for the turbos, risk failing a smog test?? Would such a mod void the warranty? Does anybody have experience with altering their intercoolers on MB and if so does it void your warranty?
It has nothing to do with emissions testing as our cars don't even have secondary air injection to speed up the cat warming process. Can't see how they have anything todo with each other.. splitting the circuit is just that. You block off the path for the coolant to run through the engine block and keep the coolant for the transmission and turbos on there own path. We did this on the e55 back in the day and helped keep intake temps down.
Mercedes would never be able to tell this was done and wouldn't worry about voiding any warranty work.
Is separating the coolant flow enough to address potential temp issues? Or is upgrading the cooling system itself still necessary with these cars? S it unnecessary if I'll be 85% daily driving/spirited/canyons, etc, and only 10-15% on the track with it?
07-10-2021 | 09:55 AM
