Concretebrew

Hi Andre, the hose in my car eventually burst and it had to be replaced. I've had to go out of town and did not have a chance to look for either the part number or the exact price I was charged for it, but at least the hose itself for a CL600 was over a grand. And, no, it did not require pulling the transmission.

biker349

hi, would love the part 3 when you get a chance. also the hours labor.
thanks, harv

biker349

hi, would love the part # when you get a chance. also the hours labor.
thanks, harv

Concretebrew

Hi, sorry for the delay. The part number for the hydraulic hose is 220-320-57-72; they charged me $800.00 for it, including freight from Germany. The labor was $525.00. Their shop rate is $145.00 an hour. They also flushed the entire system, replaced the filter; refilled and bled the system for an additional $357.11, of which, $197.11 was parts. I hope this helps. I sure helped me.

biker349

thanks. are you sure that is the correct part # the one i come up with is
220 320 59 72.

slohtia

Hello,

I am also facing the same issue with my 2003 S600 with 90k miles. There is a whining noise from front and I think it started appearing after I had replaced the ABC line. At that time the mechanic said that the noise is from ABC pump. He said continue to drive if the noise gets worse we can look at it and replace the pump. But I have read that in your case, the noise did not go away even after replacing the ABC pump. I recently had them replace the ABC accumulator/damper which made the noise bit less but it is still there

Other thing I notice is that when I accelerate the noise is less but as soon as I let the gas pedal go, the noise is quite loud. I took it to another mechanic and he is now saying that it is because of engine mounts since they are collapsed the vibrations are transferred to the chassis.

He also changed the transmission mount but that did not make any difference. I am worried about spending another $1500 on engine mounts and then again coming back with Whine noise.

Did you also have noise worsen when you accelerated and then decelerate the car?

slohtia

The part number for 2003 S600 ABC line was 220 320 53 72. The called it dead end abc line.

The engine mounts are collapsed, but they have been like that for 2 years. I wonder if they are causing the growling noise when I let the gas pedal go after acceleration.

Concretebrew

Hi!

To first respond to biker349, the part number on the invoice is listed as 220-320-57-72. Note however, that they had to order it from Germany. While the car was being repaired, the service advisor called me and said the part they sent him was the wrong one and that the one I needed was not available in the US> at the time. He said Mercedes would ship them the correct hose but asked me if I wanted to pay extra to have it sent by FedEx International. Even though the box that the hose came in was rather large, the dealer was willing to split the shipping costs and I went ahead with having it expedited. Again, this was in my case, a 2005 CL600.

As far as slothia's inquiry, I also own a 1999 S600 Coupe and it has close to 50,000 miles on it. I've not had a single issue with that car and I think it is much better built and or designed than the 2005. Somehow, I have to think that the Chrysler influence of that period dumbed down the cars. Don't get me wrong, I love my 2005 and particularly the power between is and the 1999 is beyond explanation. It's just that some of the issues I've had to deal with on the 2005 have been ridiculous for a vehicle of that caliber.

Like a vacuum motor in the automatic trunk latch that has a rubber hose that rots and the trunk stops working. However, Mercedes wants to sell you the entire latch assembly for $700.00. It took me 5 minutes to fix it myself.

Or (A real kicker) the shifter housing that locks the car in park because one of the main parts inside the housing is made of Bakelite and generally breaks on a regular basis. Mercedes used to supply a replacement part, except it was as crappy as the one it broke to begin with.

When it happened to me, the dealer told me they no longer supply that part but have "an upgraded shifter housing" that they will sell me for $1,300.00! As it turned out, that part was installed in a wide variety of vehicles spanning nearly seven years and I found a replacement part out of Germany machined out of a solid hardened steel billet.

It took me a weekend to replace it myself and was stunned to see how beefy and well machined/designed the rest of the he shifter box was. They would have worked just fine on a rocket headed for Mars. And yet, they stick in a cheesy part that breaks constantly and the problem is so widespread that even eBay has aluminum ones for sale!

I paid $83.00 for the part I purchased and it will also outlast the car several times over. I've never had these types of issues with the S600. My 2005 CL had a sticker of $167,000.00 (I still have it) and they put in a shifter housing with a part they knew it's junk.

If I wasn't able to do a lot of the repairs myself, I would now own these cars which, by the way, explain why you can buy good used ones for so little money. I barely have 68,000 miles on the car and have had to replace a coil pack three times--at over a grand a piece; you would think they would at least not fail that frequently.

I've never replaced a coil pack on the S600 and if I ever have to, I won't need to replace six to fix one. My wife drives an Audi RS4 with a 4.2 liter V8 and a coil pack from the dealer costs $32.00. And to replace them, it is no harder than replacing a spark plug on small block Chevy V8. Have any of you ever replaced a coil rail on a pre-2008 CL? It is a nightmare…Now they make them so you can replace just the one that failed, but I am sure it is no $32.00 to buy one.

This weekend I found a 2006 C65 AMG with 32,000 miles and they were asking less than 30 grand for it. I've always wanted one. But I pulled a CarFax and the car had four owners, hardly any repair history once out of warranty (Including replacing the transmission) and the dealer that had it bought it from the auction. I ran the other way as fast as I could. I don't even look at any of these cars unless I would be the second owner and the service records are immaculate. Yet, how do fight against something like the shifter housing or the trunk latch?

I didn't mean to go off, but I think Mercedes takes their customers for granted and figure that if you own a $167,000.00 Mercedes, you won't mind paying out the nose for anything and everything. Including ignorant engineering schemes that because they are designed by a German engineer they can't possibly be inferior. I'd like to meet the moron that designed the shifter housing and ask him to explain to me what sort of narcotic he was on when he designed that part that is so flimsy, it would break just from looking at it long enough.

And for Mercedes to be so arrogant that they would continue using that part in a variety of models for years before coming up with an "upgraded" version of the housing for $1,200.00 when I know all they did is replace the cheesy part with one just like the aftermarket that is available everywhere and it is built consistent with the rest of the housing.

As far the noise getting louder on deceleration, that was not my experience. As soon as the engine exceeded 2000 RPMs, the engine noise drowned the whine. Please understand that the car now is so quiet that sometimes I get out and forget to push the keyless entry button on top of the shifter. So, even at speed, the car is so quiet that the whine was never an issue unless it was idling or I was driving below 2000 RPMs. That is quite often particularly around town when you consider that at highway speeds, at 2000 RPM you are driving over 70 MPH.

Anyway, thanks for indulging me; I hope some of the information was helpful. Cheers!

v8mercedes

thanks a lot for your help....

the german EPC does not found the part number you listed (A220 320 5772).
but i will check that tomorrow at my mercedes dealer. maybe the part number has replaced.

have a nice day

slohtia

ConcreteBrew - I think the whine noise in my car could be for the same reason as yours. The noise starting coming after the ABC line was replaced. So if they did not replace it properly or if it is not secured properly, it must be causing the whine.

The mercedes dealership says ABC pump. But I do not trust them. The noise has become quite less after replacing the accumulator so it could be that the ABC line is not vibrating as much due to new accumulator and noise is less

Other thing I feel is that there is less power in the engine. It seems to be not as fast as it was before. Recently I had to change ECM module because I got all 12 cylinders failing and luckily i did not have to change the coil pack.

Anyway, the whine noise is driving me crazy. It is that subtle constant noise, and I can hear the noise if I am not driving and just rev up the engine to about 2400 rpm.

I did hear someone say that their whine noise was gone after replacing engine mounts. I am told that Engine mounts are flat and that could be the reason that the noise is transmitted to chasis

If I replace engine mount should I get them to replace the ABC pump also since they will need to lift engine out to replace engine mounts.

Anyone else have had similar experience.

Thanks so much.

tusabes

It could just be the long abc hose touching the chassis

Securing it with foam spacers might help

Concretebrew

Hi Slothtia, do not replace the ABC pump before running the car with the serpentine belt off. Unless you have leaky shocks and ran the pump dry,, they simply do not fail. I wish I had known what I know now as I now have a perfectly good used ABC pump in my garage. If the whine started after they replaced the ABC main line, that is a dead giveaway. MB even has a bulletin out about making sure that the line is correctly installed and properly secured in the required sequence to eliminate the noise.

I understand what you mean about it driving you crazy because it drove me crazy enough to let the dealers do some things that given what I know today, I would have never had them done and saved me a bucketful of money. The dealer that replaced the hose is not where you are going to get the issue resolved. They will choke before they will admit that the hose is imprperly istalled. Take it elswhere and make sure they have an experienced V12 mechanic and not just a bunch of part replacers. You can always go back to the dealer that said you need a pump and show them the invoice for properly installing the hose. You can make an issue of it since you already took it back and they told you you needed a pump.

In my case, the whine was there all the time whether in gear or not and it hardly changed in pitch no matter how fast below 2000 RPM I was driving, which gear or accelerating or decelerating. Over 2000 RPMs, the engine noisr will drown it.

As to the motor mounts, they are a weak link in that car and if they are soft, the engine will ride on the chassis. But I don't know if the noise is the same. The other potential problem that is common and does make a similar whine, is a misaligned exhaust system. There is a bulletin out for that as well.

As to the performance, I don't see how replacing the ABC hose would affect the performance. But on a car like this, if it is noticeable, you must have some problem and again, I would go to a shop with an expert V12 Wrench. You should certainly have a ton of codes as well.

I hope this helps.

slohtia

Hi Concretebrew,

Thanks so much for the suggestions. Your posts have helped me so much in understanding ABC line etc. I am glad that at least I can understand what mechanics are talking about.

Did your noise go away when they replaced ABC line or did they just secured it properly.

Last time when the ABC line blew off, I did not know what ABC light was for. So I drove home about 10 miles. The car was sitting low when I got home. Then I got it towed to the dealer who replaced the line. That is when I remember when the noise start coming inside the car. The noise can not be heard that outside just inside the cabin.

So, I took the car to the dealer, and the mechanic came back saying that it is from the ABC pump. In the mean time, a friend of mine recommended this mechanic who only works on mercedes and not on any other car. He heard the noise and told me that it is accumulator. I told him that the dealer said it was pump. He said pump mostly do not go bad, and in 10 years he has replaced pump only once. He was very confident that it was accumulator. So he replaced it. The noise went down significantly but it was still there.

He then looked into it in more detail with stethoscope, look at the oil pump etc. He did not drive without the belt. But he realized that the noise was only heard inside the car. So he had his partner sit inside the car with windows closed and he raised the engine a bit, and he says that noise was gone. He did this because he saw that the engine mounts were collapsed. The transmission mount was also gone. I asked him to replace the transmission mount but it did not make any difference.

This week I called him and asked him that I want to bring the car in so that he can check ABC line (as suggested by you and Tusabes). He said he already checked ABC line, and he is quite sure that engine noise is being transmitted to chassis. He said when you accelerate the engine lifts up so noise is less, but when it shifts gear and rpm comes low the noise is higher because engine is back on chassis.

At this point, I guess I do not have any other option but to trust his diagnosis and replace engine mount. I know engine mounts are bad so they have to be replaced anyway, but my wishful thinking is that this guy is right and it takes care of the noise. In either case, engine mounts need to replaced as engine vibrates too much when cold I can feel it, but then goes ok after it is warmed up.

I am going to ask him again to check ABC line when he is replacing the mounts. Should I tell him that there is a TSB on ABC line installation. Does anyone have that TSB number? It is always a tricky point to tell mechanic and not hurt their self ego .

I will keep the forum posted next week after engine mounts are done, and if the noise is still there on not.

Also, question - Should I get the ABC line replaced again since they have to lift the engine for putting on new engine mount anyway.

Thanks so much everyone.

Concretebrew

Hi Slothtia,

Actually, my ABC line failed and I had it replaced whine or not.

Prior to that happening and in trying to resolve the whine—which, incidentally, I also could only hear inside the car as with your case—I was told by one of the many places I took the car, that Mercedes had issued a Service Bulletin addressing the symptoms consistent with the whine in my car if the line was not properly installed, secured—and in the correct sequence.

I had more than one dealer and independent shop (Including the one that told me about the Service Bulletin) check it and, naturally, they all told me they made sure it was installed properly (And charged me for it every time).

However, the whine remained and that was when I finally ran the car without the serpentine belt because I was being told that one or more of the units that are driven by the belt were bad. The one that most everyone assured me it was a “for sure thing”, was the air pump. When I had the belt off, I did replace all the pulleys, tensioner and belt as it seemed the right thing to do and a couple of the pulleys were worn; even though I new it would not resolve my problem.

In any case, when the hose burst, I decided to take it to the dealer that a year and-a-half earlier had assured me that it was the ABC pump and mostly out of frustration (not a good way to make such decisions) I had them do it and of course, it didn’t make any difference.

I later did some research, and that was how I realized that as you were told, the ABC pumps are essentially bullet-proof unless you run them dry. They simply do not fail.
I have regretted doing that but its water under the bridge. I was particularly frustrated as the noise drove crazy; and given that I also own a 1995 SS600 Coupe, and know how quiet the car should be; every time I drove it, the more frustrated I became with the whine on the CL600. Ironically, if someone got in the CL600 with me, the first comment is always about how quiet it is; so it is more of an issue that if you know better, it’s hard to settle for less.

I really had no expectation that replacing the ABC line would resolve the issue with the whine. But in the back of my mind, I felt that if by chance it did make a difference, it would be easier to bring up the issue of them replacing the ABC pump.

Also, of all the places I went, the service writer in that dealership is really professional and while he may not be an expert on Mercedes V12 cars, he is sincere in wanting to help me resolve the problem and actually had a mechanic check the exhaust system to make sure it was suspended properly as Mercedes had also issued a Service Bulletin for that to be checked if the vehicle made a “whining noise below 2000 RPM”, and did not charge me. Of course, that was not the problem anyway.

When I talked to him about replacing the ABC line, I expressed my concerns and reminded him that he had already replaced the ABC pump, installed a vibration damper for the ABC pump that for 2005 was considered a retrofit (Hence I had to pay for it) while for 2006, the cars came with them installed at the factory; and reminded him that he had also charged me to make sure the ABC line was installed correctly as well as the exhaust system was checked and found to be fine.

He told me that the mechanic that originally pointed to the ABC pump had moved to California and that they had hired two new mechanics. One of them was supposed to be a guru on V12 cars and assured me he would be the one replacing my ABC line. In fact, I asked the service writer to not say anything to him about the whine until the car was done.

Sure enough, when I went to pick up the car, the service writer told me to drive it around before settling the bill as the mechanic made no mention of any noises, whines or other problems with the car given that they are supposed to check for anything else a car might need on every vehicle they work on regardless of what it was brought in for. The only comment he made, was that it had the wrong tires on it (They are not the original Michelin type and both the front and rear tires are the same size).

The second I got in the car and started it to drive away, it was dramatically evident that the whine was gone. I thought I was in a different car. I drove it around and ran it through the every hoop I could without being arrested and the whine was gone. I went back to the dealership and talked to the service writer who did his best to help me out financially on the repair as well as with future free A coupons. Nothing to the extent of what it cost to replace the ABC pump, but certainly the goodwill was there.

Specific to your comments, theoretically, replacing the motor mounts, may indeed be the problem as you have been told, but keep in mind that according to Mercedes Benz, you need to definitely replace both; but it also requires removing the engine (MB Procedure AR22.10-P-4320IX- Remove/install front end supports) not just lifting it—that will not be inexpensive.

I have been told that it can be done without having to remove the engine, but in any case, it would require removing the exhaust and disconnect the ABC line whether they do or not. Hence, those two procedures alone, if not carried out correctly, may produce a “whine”.

The motor mounts are an item that is not up to par with the rest of the vehicle (Along with other absurdities...) or the price they charged for it when new. In doing some research, I found the mounts as failing to be more common than I would have expected. I had mine checked and they were fine; but if your rear mount was visibly shot, the odds are very high that the front ones are shot as well. Whether that is the reason for your noise, is a different story; but clearly, it sounds like you need motor mounts one way or the other much as I needed an ABC line.

As far as the mounts are concerned, they are available for as little as under $100.00 for the set of three (The two front ones and the rear or transmission one) and if you have them replaced at an independent garage, they will likely go for the least expensive set available in the aftermarket. Be careful…you will get what you pay for, and I would not even go with the OEM Mercedes ones, rather with a better quality aftermarket set such as the ones they use on the CL65. Of course, those would be considered as an AMG item and they will charge an additional premium for that.

I would do my homework as I know you can purchase aftermarket mounts that are better than OEM and may even cost less than those from either Mercedes Benz or AMG. There are a couple of great Mercedes parts specialists around that know what is available and where. I am not sure what the policy for the forum is for promoting vendors, so if you would like to a reference; send me a private email and I will be glad to help you with that information.

Whatever you do, don’t think for a minute that a motor mount is a motor mount so why pay Stealer prices when you can get them on eBay for $100.00. You will come to regret it.

I am also surprised to read that your engine vibrates a lot when cold. Don’t bother with the mounts until you resolve that problem as the mounts really take a beating even if only until the engine warms up and if you look as the way they are set up, they don't have to weaken very much before bottoming out.

Actually, in my humble opinion, and owning two Mercedes Benz vehicles with a V12, I have yet to see one vibrate at all whether cold or not. My guess is that your engine light is on; correct?

Those engines are as smooth as they are quiet and so are the cars. I struggle envisioning an engine like that dancing in the engine bay no matter whether it is cold or at operating temperature. Replacing the motor mounts is not going to resolve that.

To answer your last question, if we are talking about the same ABC line, I had mine sent from Germany and it cost nearly $1,000.00. I would not think that is an expense you would want to incur on the basis of “while you are at it”; particularly when you just replaced it.

I will also see if I can round up the Service Bulletin as you make a very good and valid point.

Cheers!

tusabes

You can name good mount brand names and good suppliers
Please list them

Concretebrew

For me, the very best and most knowledgeable, is Euromotives. They are not the cheapest, but certainly, in my view, the best. Feel free to tell him Max from Utah referred you (No, I don't get any kickbacks...he is a good friend):

Arnie @ Euromotives (ebay@euromotives.com)

I assure you I've done my homework...you guys decide.

Cheers!

slohtia

Once again Big Thanks to ConcreteBrew and Tusabe regarding suggestions on ABC line

So, last week I took my car in for engine mount. This mechanic who worked at Mercedes dealer and says that he is the master tech certified by Mercedes in Germany gave me a quote of $720 for labor to replace both mounts ( I guess 4 hrs) as per the repair book. Plus the cost of mounts. After 2 days, he calls me and says that he started taking Cat converters off etc and then realized that it requires the whole engine to be taken out and there is no way they can do it in 4 hrs. It is a long job, he did not even want to give me an estimate. He said he already spent 6 hours and then realized that the engine needs to be taken out.

So, he charge me for 2 hrs of labor ( $360) because he spent time on the car. He said that he then spent time looking at the ABC line and the line was off its bracket and touching chassis because engine mounts were all cracked. So, he said he tied the line with another bracket to it does not touch the chassis anymore so I will not hear the noise as much.

I was bit upset but since this guy is always honest with us and does all our repairs, I did not want to make a big fuss about why he is charging for even 2 hrs as he did not do the work. Ideally he should have just charged me to inspect and tie up the ABC line.

Anyway, when I picked up the car. The car was much better. There is still little bit of whine noise when I accelerate but that could be of the engine noise also. I cannot tell. But the main whine noise seems to be very little or gone. In a way I am quite happy that the whine noise is not there which I have been fighting for a year. But I wish this guy had listened to me and check ABC line before trying to replace engine mount. He told me before that all was fine with ABC line.

He said that he could do engine mounts, but it will be lot more cost. I am bit afraid of him doing the engine mounts as he did not even know that you have to take the engine out.

There is another great mercedez shop who I trust as they inspected the car when I bought it. They said that the cost will be $2500 including mounts. So my question is whether it is worth it to spend another $2500 on engine mounts while I am happy with the little noise. I do not even know if engine mounts will make a difference. But I have read at few places where engine mounts make the car even quieter. But again $2500 is big bill to pay give that i have already spent $4500 recently on ECM module, ABC line etc.

Any suggestions on engine mount? is it worth it? I am thinking to wait another year or so before spending more money.

Also, he mentioned that the windshield water hose is leaking. Cost to fix $400. Crazy again.

Thanks guys as always very useful forum.

tusabes

My independent shop charges $1000 for motor mounts

Run from any place charging $2500

You can indeed live with collapsed motor mounts for years

$180 is a very high labor rate , that's what official Mercedes dealership charges
You can find good mechanics for $100/hour

Concretebrew

Hi Slothtia,

I am sorry about the hassle with the motor mounts. As I had indicated, according to Mercedes, you can’t replace the mounts without pulling the engine and while your mechanic may be “factory trained in Germany”, he obviously had never replaced the mounts on that type of car or he would not have gone into it six hours before realizing that the engine had to have to come out. In any case, if you just replaced the ABC line and it had broken off at the brackets, I think the reason for that is more like a result of the engine vibrating rather that running smooth at times. Whether you replace the motor mounts or not, I think you will find that sooner than later, the ABC line will break loose again and the motor mounts will fail sooner than later. I still think you should seriously consider fixing your engine problems before anything else. Otherwise, I fear you feel like the surgeon that announces the operation was a success, except the patient died.

I agree that, particularly for an independent, $180.00 seems extremely excessive. My Mercedes dealer charges $135.00 an hour and depending on where you live, you should find an excellent mechanic (whether trained in Germany or not) for $100.00 an hour as Tusabe suggests. My wife drives an AUDI RS4 with a 4.2 liter V8, and there is an extremely competent mechanic in town that will work on it for $95.00 and keeps it running like a high-speed train. And, he has no problem with me providing the parts when the dealer is being unreasonable; which 95% of the times it’s the case.

I am happy to hear that you are pleased and with bad mounts, you will expect some sort of noise. It is unavoidable other than you know it should not be there. Also, remember that if the motor mounts are weak or all together shot, whether hot or cold, every time you step on the gas that enormous engine produces so much torque that I assure you it rocks in the engine bay sideways. Your ABC line, as it is secured from the pump to the transmission and other supports, will eventually fail again, sooner than later. I n fact, if the mechanic secured the line so that the brackets won’t give, they will surely no longer be secured in the proper sequence and if the brackets don’t give way, the line will burst.

For whatever it’s worth, I think that is what would concern me most. Best of luck! Enjoy your Benz…

Cheers!

biker349

unbelievable. i'm in fort pierce fl. and my dealer started charging $180 an hour. unbelievable. they used to charge about $130 an hour. i think this is unreasonable. inflation sucks!!!!!

Welwynnick

Sorry to hear about the engine mount debacle. A mechanic should know what is involved when he quotes a job.

For the record though, it's not necessary to remove the engine. You can support the engine (leaving everything but the PAS connected) and drop the subframe instead.

Nick

slohtia

hi ConcreteBrew - I did not replace ABC line as it was replaced last year. He just secured ABC line with another bracket. But he charged $360 mainly saying that he spent too much time trying to replace engine mounts. Well, I guess it should have been $100 or so to secure ABC line, but anyway I was just nice to him and did not make a big deal out of it.

Jeffrey Miller

This is the exact noise my 2001 CL600 is making between idle and 2000 RPM and no one can figure it out. You mentioned that if it is not a line contacting the body it could be an accumulator, mercedes gave me a diagram print out of the 3 accumulators for this car ; one is in the front drivers side wheel well, 2nd under the middle of the car in front of the rear drivers side wheel and one it looks like in the rear behind the wheels possibly in the trunk or by the rear end. Would you know if there is a specific one that causes this noise?

MrTracy

that is one sexy *****

bobterry99

As someone said it could be the pulsation damper which is located behind the right front wheel.