RoCL

Any idea if an ABC issue will cause the car to go out if alignment?

ctravis595

alignment on a car with abc is a sticky situation or so i've been told. whenever i've asked for an alignment at a tire shop they say only mercedes is capable of doing alignments on these cars but for all i know they just didn't want to break an expensive car because they didn't know how to work on it

RoCL

Just to update everyone on this deal:
Spent a hour looking over the car for more issues.
Good news is the tech cleared the ABC code.....car was very cold when I went to inspect and suspension was holding.
Ventilated seats are working now....fans come on....didn't feel cool air though?
Supertine belts look good.
Dealer dropped the price to 11,900 OTD.

Bad news:
Nav and CD do not work. Massaging feature doesn't work. Car needs an alignment and two new tires. Needs oil change.
Car doesn't come with the credit card key....
Tech found a secondary air injection code...? Claimed it doesn't affect performance....

Any more thoughts or comments anyone?
Thanks!

BlownV8

Run away. Look for a car with no issues. There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes. Well, then again, there is nothing more expensive than a cheap 215 CL Mercedes with issues.

ctravis595

theres a big difference between the suspension holding up during an up/down test and actually performing as it should in a rodeo test. some cars will start the rodeo and then stop midway because the abc system isn't up to par. rodeo test is very important in my opinion. not that you're not gonna be investing money in the abc anyways..... the other issues sound minor to me, although i have no experience with the "secondary air injection" you mentioned.

clearing a code doesn't mean anything. you're supposed to fix the problem and then clear the code. not clear the code and hope it doesn't come back. at least that's how a professional would go about fixing things on a mercedes. clearing codes and "hoping" they don't come back is the honda method of fixing things

RoCL

I mentioned the rodeo test and the tech is willing to do it...I'm still picking the car apart. The more times I inspect the better.

The injector thing was very unexpected.....as was the nav...
I'm patient and willing to wait more...I will let you guys know what happens

ctravis595

check around the abc pump in the engine bay for any signs of leakage. i would also raise the car up (on the abc control) and visually inspect all four shocks around the car for any signs of leakage also. you can spot oil leakage usually by the dirt/grime that has "stuck" to the wet oil over time

RoCL

I did notice some "grime" on one or two of the shocks.

I have attached some pictures of the engine bay. Can you tell me what I'm looking at? The 3rd picture has some kind of plastic container that is either leaking, or, was leaking, or, was filled in a sloppy manner.

RoCL

Here's a bigger picture...the black container with a hose had some kind of fluid around it.

ctravis595

depending on who you ask, some people say you should replace struts as soon as they start leaking. i would point this out to the dealer and see if you could get a better deal. does the car seem to "wiggle" in the rear end when you go over bumps in the road/potholes? that's the best way i could describe how my abc strut acted when it started leaking. i'm by far no expert on the issue, but i would go forward assumingthose struts may fail sometime in the next couple years. how much grime are you talking about on the shock? does it seem to cover a lot of the shock or could it have been just some excess fluid spillage when they were worked on before? lots of things to consider in this scenario

that excess fluid you're talking about on the black container on the right side is indeed the abc expansion resevoir (if we're talking about the same thing). the smaller one closer to the front of the car is for power steering. do some searching on the internet as to what happens when those things overflow on these cars to get a better understand as to what happened when this thing did overflow. there's a good chance that at over 80k, your abc pump may have already been replaced when it failed(which can be a good thing depending on how you look at it)

you should really take it to dealer and get the service records. i was able to get a lot of information about my cars history by calling mercedes dealers and explaining you want to know more about what your car has been through, and by providing them the vin they might be nice enough to give you a run through of what the service records are. i'd tell them you think your abc is going bad and you want to see if the service records show any abc work being done and then give them the vin

good luck

ctravis595

your car may not pass a rodeo test judging off what you've told me about the shocks. please do not purchase this car without finding out information about the history of the car UNLESS you are prepared to spend thousands in what could be just one year of maintenance costs. do some research on how much people generally spend fixing the things that we've discusssed wrong with the car. and i suggest you do not purchase this car without at least a carfax and rodeo check

i cannot stress this enough, there is a huge difference between going to the auto parts store and asking them to read your codes and going to a real mercedes dealer with the proper software to work on these cars. it's just not worth it man

RoCL

Thanks for the insight. I am in the process of obtaining the service records....
The dealer that is selling the car is not a MB dealer....the tech indicated they have an off-brand SDS machine and the tech is a semi retired MB dealer tech.

I imagine the machine might be something comparable to what I priced with Shardul...

I am prepared to spend money on ABC. Sooner or later you have to....measuring how much when is the tricky part. I will do most if not all, the work myself. I changed struts before and worked on cadillac air suspension before.

I will definitely do the rodeo test and run the carfax. I will see what all the MB dealers tell me about the service...they tend to get picky about about releasing this "confidential" info...

I'm looking for a CL55/600 within 75 miles of Dallas. I found another CL55 around Dallas....2006, 58K miles....24K sales price. Cream puff except....has had a new engine 33K miles ago and suspension is not 100%.

I would rather spend 12k on the car, earmark 2-3k for suspension parts, and 1k for maintenance fliuds and filters.
This car will be a toy, not a DD. Plus, gives me a project to work on. If this car doesnt work out, there will be others. Just learning as I'm going.

BlownV8

Please take the car to a MB dealer and have them do a PPI. It could save you from potentially spending $10k in repairs.

Trust what we are telling you. We see this all the time. Someone buys one of these cars really cheap. The repair costs exceed the value of the car and then in 6 months or a year they are trying to sell the car in desperation after they already spent more than the car is worth and it's still not right. Buy the best car you can with ZERO issues. It will cost you much less in the long run.

RoCL

I have contacted the local MB dealers and they will NOT do a PPI. According to them, Mercedes doesnt allow anymore b/c they dont want to be held liable...

One dealer referred me to 2 indep shops that do PPIs. One guy does a full inspection including the rodeo for 220 and takes about 2 hours. He also doesnt have an SDS. Just some other brand....the other shop charges 99 and the receptionist "thinks" they check everything....

I'm definitely wih you and doing all of this due diligence is required before I buy.....just takes a bit if time and its difficult to find a quality, reputable shop. I live 60 miles North if Dallas and over the years have become accustomed to doing everything myself. It is a real pain, but owell. In the end, the job is done right and I dont feel like I got raoed by some dirtbag dealer.

Thats one if the reasons I am considering the purchase of an SDS machine from Shardul and running the diagnostics myself. The dealer that us selling the car is allowing me to spend however much time inspecting. He is willing to let me take the car, take it where ever and come back.

Your definitely right about buying a car with the fewest issues. Whether this deal falls through or not, I have learned quite a bit here. Sooner or later I will buy a cl55/600. All this research has not gone in vain.

Thanks for the great feedback!

RoCL

Here's some info regarding my continued research on the car for those that are keeping up with this thread, for me, to keep me organized...

Alignment at a dealer: $205. Goodyear shop: $99. Mom and pop shop that did work on my caddy w/air ride: $65.

Credit card key: $360 including programmin, from dealer.
Smart key: $360 including programming, from dealer.

Secondary air injection doesn't seem to be a big deal. Based on my research is has to with a P0410 code that causes a check engine light. Apparently, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the air pump that is supposed to add air to the exhaust chambers and/or catalytic converter has some kind of issue. That's not to say the pump itsself is bad, but that the air injection system itsself is failing. From what I gather, it could be any of the folllowing:

Loose, crimped, or clogged hose/tube/connector and/or valve; carbon deposits can form along any of the hose/tube/connector and/or valves. It can also form in/around the pump itself.
Dirty or faulty relay or fuse.
Non-working pump.
Also, the wires to the pump from the harness or the wires in the harnes might not make contact 100% of the time. The connector might also experience the same. One end of the wires can become loose and wiggle out a little, 2-3 mm, prosibly causing the pins inside the connector not to make proper contact.

This pump comes on when engine temeraptures are low...approx 40 degrees C. The idea is to bring in more air so as to lower emmissions. Since the catalytic converter is not at operating temperature, the fuel that ends up there is not completely utilized...you end up running rich and may fail an emmissions test. Sometimes the pump fails...but from I have read, most of the time the issue is a hose/tube/connector.

Regarding the ABC, the best I can get from a dealer is, "We will charge $189 to run a full diagnostic." No PPI or anything similar. I called all 4 Dallas Metroplex MB dealers and they all told me the same thing.
Strange

ctravis595

that diagnostic is spotty at best. i had my car diagnosed by the dealer just like you say, and despite the fact that they said everything was good, i had a leaking strut (never even noticed even though i spent like 150 on an INSPECTION), and also an abc pump failure less than 3 months later. i was quite pissed as i thought this stamp of approval from the dealer meant my abc was reliable. wrong!

get a rodeo test please, find a cool indy and make friends and offer him the same diagnostic fee that mercedes charges. the rodeo will tell you a lot about whether or not you want this car

albertchampion

i wouldn't touch any 215 earlier than the 2006 model year.

i owned three. two cl500's. one cl55. i acquired them all from dealers as pre-owned warranted cars.

i sold the first one earlier this year when it came off the benz warranty.

i maintain these cars.

much cheaper than not doing that.

i love them. they were the last of the sacco coupes. so much better looking than the 216's. and the control system is so much more intuitive.

your money, of course.

ctravis595

i'm curious as to what makes you regard the year 2006 in particular...is it the combination of the raw power and 7 speed tranny? or just less issues in general?

ctravis595

and to the OP, my cold hard opinion comes down to - if you plan on working on this thing yourself, and i mean REALLY working on it (i can give you a mile long list of things i've done to my car in the year and half of owning it if that gives you an idea), go ahead and get it if the price seems right.

if you plan on paying other people to do work to this car, you're looking at what could be 10 grand a year (no joke. an average tune up at an indy will run 5000...). you have to understand the price tag that came with these cars, the projected market was for people who can actually afford to buy these things new, in which case - a few thousand a year in maintenance is no big deal. but for the average individual, looking for cars in the 10,000 - 15,000 price range, spending 6-9 a year on maintenance is not only illogical, it's damn near retarded.

through using the internet to find competitive pricing on parts, and doing the work YOURSELF you will find these cars are almost reasonable to maintain. a lot of people understand it's stupid to spend that much on fixing a car and have taken into their own hands to share their knowledge online and not to mention the countless resources you can actually purchase. like the star diagnostics computer or mercedes shop tech manuals.....

albertchampion

firstly, my research informed me that by that final year, benz had finally gotten its electronic issues resolved.

and, i wanted a benz cpo'ed vehicle. and oddly enough, 215's in my favored colors that spent their life out of the snow belt proved difficult to find.

you know, i have what i think is a funny story when i refused to take delivery in 2000 of a new s500 and a new ml500. seeing the lcd dash center stack, i said no. what was then intercontinental motors was shocked. after all, i had been that dealer's original customer when it opened in 1976. and all who worked there were sort of friends. because of the products that i manufacture for engines, because of who i am and what i know, i was always accorded unique access to the service bays.

within 24 months, the service director called me to tell me that though everyone thought i was crazed when i refused delivery of those initial electronified cars, he wanted me to know that i was now considered prescient.

now, since my first benz in 1973, i had always purchased benzes new.

but, in 2000, i could no longer acquire a new benz that i cared to own - most of those post-2000 cars proved to be garage queens. so, i continued to drive my 1986 560sel. a refrigerator of a car. in my view, the greatest production sedan ever designed and manufactured.

but, by 2000 the odometer was at 250,000 miles. so, i started looking for virtually new, single owner pre-2000[pre-massive electronification] benzes from the bruno sacco design bureau.

since my favorite benz was my 1976 450sel[a sports car disguised as a sedan], my first acquisition was a 1979 450sel6.9. from the second owner with 52,000 miles. in perfect condition. but as much as i loved this benz, i found it scary. it didn't have enough brakes. and it didn't have enough legroom for me[at one time there was a kit that added another inch or two, but it had disappeared from the benz parts shelf]. by the way, my colors, silver with blue leather[ortho seats].

my next additon to my pre-electronification collection was a 1987 560sec. one owner. arctic white, blue leather. 42,000 miles. this car taught me the lesson of a elderly widow's car that never got warmed up. though in "as new" condition, a borescoping of the cylinders might have changed my mind. within 20,000 miles it needed a top end overhaul. new valves, guides, camshafts, roller chain. and the piston crowns had to be cleaned of years of gummy lube oil residue.

still, excepting that, it is a great driving car. that always gets applause when i take it out for a spin. at 100,000 miles now, it looks as if it was just out of the showroom.

i had the first e320/320e[w124] in houston. a wonderfully sporting sedan.

it was a cocky design unfortunately, that inspired lots of vandalism. tiring of that i sold it. but, i liked sacco's 124's. but i wanted the rarest of that model, the cabriolet.

found one with 4,200 miles. a 1995, white, blue leather, blue canvas top. it was never titled. i am its first registered owner. a great looking car. a show stopper. i still think it is the best looking of all the benz convertibles.

then in 2003, stumbled into one of the last of the 140 coupes in san antonio. a 1997. 20,000 miles. starmarked. one owner. ruby, black leather. ordinarily, not my colors, but the original owner was an aggie.

this model coupe is a crazy part of the history of benz and bruno sacco. the 1997 was virtually the end of that model's chain. and most of its problems had been remedied. finally.

though most don't recognize it, this is one of the great high speed road cars. mine is immaculate. now has 62,000 miles.

i had always liked the design of the 215's. thought that they were the most elegant of all the sacco designs. the best looking of all his coupes. svelte.

but, for many years they were garage queens. my sister's neighbor, jim belushi had a 2003 black on black cl600. it was always in the shop. and jim was always trying to sell it to me after my sister told him of my little benz collection. i always pissed him off when i asked to see all his r.o.'s.

still, i had given up on electronified benzes. then in 2009 i stumbled into a 2006 cl500 in one of my color sets, pewter silver. one lessee. 20,020 miles. cpo'ed. no dings. immaculate. driven by a doctor only back and forth from his residence to his offices.

but only one option: keyless go.

a delightful touring car. it became my daily driver.

then i started looking for a 2006 cpo'ed cl55. found one that live all its life in hollister, ca. fully optioned. what a fun car to drive.

but what a hydrocarbon devourer.

i wanted to find another cpo'ed 2006 cl500, fully optioned. found one last year. brilliant silver. 38,000 miles.

kept it for the options. sold the one without the options.

i suppose that i preferred the 2006's because they were still eligible for benz cpo warranty. which has paid for itself when that first cl500 blew its tranny within the first year at 30,000 miles.

these 215's are expensive cars to operate. they are one of the most elegant designs out there. whenever i take them out, they always create a crowd.

they are not my daily drivers now. that role has been taken by my 2008 porsche cayenne turbo.

does that answer your question?

RoCL

That's my fear with throwing money around to dealers....all they care about is a few extra bucks...

A rodeo WILL be done prior to purchase....I live 60 miles north of the car and work during the day. So, getting everyting done asap is not realistic. At this point, I'm just taking me time. I want to witness the rodeo and be able to see the suspension work properly and look for any visible issues. The only reason I found out about the alignment is because I literally crawled under the car and started looking for issues. When I made it to the rear, the tires were very wore down on the inside...I'm also planning on having the car's alignment inspected before purchase.

The rodeo result will be the ultimate test...if it fails, I'm gone for sure.

RoCL

you're right on target!!! yes, i plan on REALLY working on the car and doing the work. I have an 1,100 square foot shop with two bay doors...I'm not a mechanic by trade....my property just happens to have this huge garage type structure that has tons of space

the due diligence and willingness to complete the work has helped me come up with a list of needed maintenance and prices. based upon the dealer and/or indy shops...$10K disappears in no time...honestly, parts are not "that" expensive if you spend time sourcing them....labor is what seems to kill everyone...$140/hr adds up real quick...from what i can gather, local dealers like to charge at least 2 hours for anything, or $200 for a simple 1-2 hr procedure.

i really enjoy working on cars, taking my time, and fixing things right. if purchased, this car would be my 3rd car. i have a 2011 sierra and a 2001 gz250...little monster machine motorcycle that runs great! if it takes me a few weeks to fix the CL, no problem. i have space and time. plus, it's a good experiment. part of the interest in buying a car that has some issues is to do the work myself, learn the car, and enjoy a hobby

Please send me a list of all the things you have done over the last year and half of ownership, I would greatly appreciate that! I would love to reference your personal experience with my list of potential repairs/maintenance...my own list is lengthy, but there is NOTHING like first-hand experience from a passionate car owner

Thanks!

Helping each other has been a refreshing experience on this forum!

ctravis595

yes that does help answer my question, thank you

if you have a lift, then that will make working on this car A LOT easier and safer

and yeah the w215 is notorious for uneven tire wear, causing your cost of tires to go up considerably

heres a rough idea of what i spent in my year and a half of ownership -

-4 sets of new rear tires
-i'm on my second set of front tires
-i spent around 5000 getting an engine tune up right when i got the car (filters, oil, ignition coils, ignition wiring, fresh spark plugs, etc)
-engine mounts, tranny mounts
-a couple months later i spent another 6000 getting my fuel system drained because someone thought it would be nice to dump bleach and sand in my gastank (required draining of tank and lines, new filters etc)
-around 6 months i dodged a bullet and decided to replace my entire suspension with coilovers INSTEAD of fixing my abc pump that went bad
-front and rear flex discs needed replacing (200 each)
-spent somewhere around 500 for an aftermarket subwoofer set up to compliment the bose mids/highs
-150 on a useless diagnostic at mercedes
-90 dollar transmission dipstick


that's all that comes to mind, like i said a lot of money can be saved doing things yourself. but when i first bought the car i was afraid to work on it because of the complexity of the vehicle but besides the electronics, it's still a car at the end of the day.

and that was all before taking into consideration im swapping the engine and transmission ($$$$)

fortunately different engines and transmissions for these cars can be found reasonably cheap, as i think this is mercedes preferred method of fixing "deep" engine/transmission issues like valvetrain issues/shifting issues