Petej

I had an ABC hose go on my CL65 last week and the situation was a bit unsettling. Luckily I was able to maintain control of the car and keep it on the road. The car is still under warranty but I'm concerned about it happening again. I had an ABC valve block replaced in December as well as two struts over the past 12 months. In addition the vehicle had Service B done less than 2 months ago and I made sure they inspected all the hoses etc. and nothing was wrong at the time.

I spoke to MBUSA and they said "the hose reached the end of it's service life" when I asked what the expected service life was and what the routine maintenance interval was for replacing the hoses and he said there was none.

Im curious what everybody is seeing as "the normal service life" of the ABC hose before they leak/and or rupture.

alx

It varies. There isn't really a set service life. I have seen original hoses hold alright for 100k miles and more and I have seen updated hoses fail after 10k. Too many variables.

Replace when hose ends start to get wet.

Petej

ALX, that is the part that has me concerned. When you say the "hoses fail" was this leaking.weeping or did they completely rupture.


The vehicle was just fully inspected and I also checked it out less than a week ago when I pulled my winter tires off and there was no sign of anything about to let loose. The hose itself ruptured, nothing wrong with the ends of the hose at all, the dealer said the hose ruptured.

marktan

2005 s600, hose burst at approx 87,000 miles. Managed to save the pump and valve body. Spent more on replacing the pentosin fluid than the hose.

alx

most hoses will begin weeping at one end and then will get progressively worse.

if a hose bursts there is a good chance the accumulator on that side of the circuit is in need to be replaced.

Welwynnick

2004 s600. Just replaced a hose at 153,000. Not too bad really, but there a lot of them, and any single failure is bad news. Have to admit it was weeping before, so you do get a bit of advance warning.
I think you simply have to keep on top of them.

Nick

BlownV8

I would be proactive and replace any that have not been recently replaced.

awiner

Alx is right. Replace your accumulators between 80,000 -100,000 miles and your hoses will be better off.

When the accumulators start to lose charge (and they will after 8 years or so) and or the diaphragm starts to breakdown, the hydrostatic shock in the system is more than enough to start blowing hoses.

Petej

Alx, that is a good point. I need to talk to Mercedes and the dealer about replacing the accumulators as well. Having worked with high pressure hydraulic/pumping systems I completely get why the accumulators should be replaced.

The good news is that the warranty company is covering the parts/labor in full (excluding the fluids) and the dealer/MBUSA are covering the fluid and anything else. Considering the reservoir was empty and there was ABC fluid all over the flat bed that towed the car to the dealer I assume the entire system went dry.

They will keep the car a few extra days and run it through the rodeo a few extra times to make sure the pump and everything else is OK.

haoz129

2003 S600 and has 85k miles. I do preventative maintenance like checking fluid level and replacing oil and filter. ABC overall is in good shape.

As the weather is getting better I'm replacing 4 of the 10 high pressure lines/hoses. The 4 I'm working on are seeping oil. I believe they may last another year or so, but it is safe to replace any hose in question.
See one of the them in picture 1. Thanks Nick's research I just have a shop made the 4 lines/hoses by using best parts including 4800psi hoses and fittings, see picture 2. New and old compare in picture 3.

Going to put them back and get more worry free miles.

Petej

I have thought about going the fabricated route but pressure rating is only one thing to consider. Shock load and number of cycles are just as important. Here are some examples...

http://ph.parker.com/us/15551/en/constant-working-pressure-hose-hpd

Welwynnick

Way to go Howard. Flexible hoses are a commodity, and aren't expensive. There's a whole, mature, competitive, well-established industry set-up to maintain hydraulic systems, and they know how to make them right. The problem has been solved. There's nothing special about MB hoses.

I think preventative maintenance like changing the oil and the hoses is the only way to look after ABC. Far better than waiting for something to go wrong - that really spoils your day. Dealers won't necessarily tell you when a hose is on the way out, but there's usually plenty of advance warning.

Figure that out for yourself and you won't have to worry about warranties and recoveries.

Nick

w4sim

er . . . exactly which accumulator are we talking about? And where is it located? Just replaced the Pulsation Dampener on mine about 2 weeks ago.

Just spent a fair bit on my car recently bringing it back up to spec again, and im about to get the ABC system flushed within the next couple of weeks. Would hate to do that and then find one of the hoses needs replacing, that Pentosin aint bloody cheap.

ctravis595

remove abc, install coilovers, problem solved!

w4sim

In all honesty, i have not only thought about this option but have also been in talks with Strutmasters and priced up a conversion kit should the worst happen.

Depending on what happens and how bad the situation is i might just go down this route. All depends on the price factor really.

But i have some peace of mind in the back of my head knowing that there is an alternative to a $6,000 bill.

Welwynnick

As long as you only drive in straight lines

w4sim

Thats the only thing really putting me off aswell, the lack of sway bars. But is it really that bad?

And back to the accumulator question please, location, part number etc etc?

Thanks.

haoz129

Yes Nick.
There are far more complex hydraulic systems working under higher pressure in the industry. Can not imagine waiting for them to burst since so many lives and critical projects count on them.
That said, ABC, as a hydraulic system, is maintainable.

There are warnings, as you mentioned, could be used to tell the time to replace a hose. But the signs are normally ignored by technician who used to work in car industry.
When I had the dealer to inspect my Volvo 5 years ago, the mechanic ignored the wet under the tranfer case. After I pointed it out they laughed because 'It is a motor and it is normal to have some oil around.' That common knowledge put so many Volvo owners into nightmare of broken transfer case due to lack of lubrication and this already became a well known issue. This also made me DIY so I am in charge of my own safety.

I'm glad we found a solution of maintaining the ABC. And by using the compression fittings the rubber hose section can be always replaced easily in case of weepage.

Thanks.

Howard

awiner

There is an accumulator at each valve block.

Part # on each is the same: 220-327-01-15

Welwynnick

I haven't tried an ABC car with coilovers, but I've been playing with suspensions for 25 years, and found out a lot about what makes them work. Modern cars, and S-class Mercedes in particular, have soft springs, plus anti-dive, squat and roll control to compensate.

Airmatic cars have a particularly stiff front A/R bar - this probably provides more roll stiffness than the springs themselves. ABC cars don't have anti-roll bars, or even the attachment points - there's no point.

Nonetheless, when I compared an airmatic and an ABC car back to back, the airmatic had MUCH more body roll, even with that thick bar. If you fit coilovers to an ABC car, you do away with both the passive and the active roll control. I really shudder to think what it would be like.

The W220 doesn't have much suspension travel - doesn't need much when you have self-levelling as standard. So take that away, and I think the suspension would also have a hard time dealing with heavy loads.

Maybe ABC is difficult and expensive to maintain, and maybe you can replace it with conventional suspension, but the W215/216/220/221 were never designed around coil springs, and I think if you remove ABC, you will no longer have the same car you originally bought.

Nick

ctravis595

retrofitting a sway bar to the strut towers seems like it woud be extremely easy. the rear ones would be a pain to access and work with because of the rear window but it would be the same concept and possibly the same measurements

my coilovers don't have much suspension travel at all actually, and i'm not sure when anybody mentioned anything about airmatic in this thread to begin with. although the car was designed with abc in mind, there are literally hundreds of models of cars whose suspension does just fine without sway bars

i've been driving the **** out of my w215 with coilovers and also with abc. i'm extremely satisfied with not only the added reliability of my car, but also the handling of the coilovers in general. i think part of the reason why the ride is so smooth still is because of the LACK of sway bars. if it wasn't an independent suspension then the car would magnify every little bump each wheel went over. although the sway bars might help for track days

you're right, i don't have the car i originally bought. it's 20 times more reliable than the car i originally bought

edit: the beauty of the strutmasters conversion is the struts on the abc system have quick disconnect fittings, i could jack the car up and swap out the struts in a matter of a couple hours if i wanted, but i haven't even considered it since i made the swap. and don't think it's because i'm lazy, i just swapped my engine and transmission from an amg just to get rid of a lifter noise on my original engine. i'd have no problem swapping out my struts for the abc struts if it meant an amazingly improved difference in handling. what i miss most is the lack of brake dive you experience with abc, although i can personally attest to 130 mph slams on the brakes with no problems whatsoever. i respect the abc system as i do have experience with it and understand what it does, but i personally think everybody kinda got hyped up in mercedes sales tactics of praising the abc out of proportion. if it was reliable then this discussion would be altogether different, but the abc is failure prone at best...

the common occurence, paired with the sheer price of abc maintenance actually makes sense from a business stand point. i'm sure mercedes wanted to make much more than just 100,000 dollars off of these cars and they're succeeding with flying colors. same train of thought as the "don't make them like they used to". cutting corners to save a buck really takes a toll on the overall lifespan of components in general. i just don't see how mercedes wasn't capable of making an abc system that wasn't prone to failure every 30k miles. but that's just my two cents...

haoz129

Base on my understanding the sway bar is connected to strut from below not the towers. The thing installed to the strut towers called brace bar which has no relationship with this topic.
The ABC improved handling more than just a brace bar kind of thing.

If you understand more about ABC you will know it is a great design and well implemented. It is not necessarily to fail every 30k miles. As I mentioned my car has 85k miles and the ABC is still going strong. This is also proved true by the poll in this thread.

Like any advanced and complex system, the ABC need proper maintenance which is not accomplished very well by dealers. This is the reason gives you an idea the system has higher failure ratio.

BTW, Mercedes is still the best manufacture. And like I explained to many others about reliablity, think about a jumbo jet which need inspection after every landing. But you won't think a B747 is not reliable. It is just complex and advanced which need proper maintenance.
If anyone need such kind of reliability which requires no attention, Corolla is a better option as in the engine bay there is not to much to fail.
I'd like to pay my fair share maintaining my car and enjoy every wonderful option that Mercedes delivered.

Hope this helps.

Howard

ctravis595

seems i was mistaken, i'm merely speaking from my understanding that i've had zero issues whatsoever with my coilovers

i can only assume that the control arms (or whatever holds the struts in place in relation to the frame of the car) are beefed up/compensated to utilize the lack of sway bars. all i know is i have not had any issues at all

and again, i'm only speaking from my experience and the fact that any car equipped with abc, has a forum with a sticky at the top called "abc issues/problems". i bought my 215 with 58k miles, and it had already had the abc pump replaced once. it failed again at 70k miles. so i roughly equated that to a failure every 30k miles or so. considering i drove my car 30k miles in a year, a catastrophic suspension failure once a year is abnsolutely unacceptable. especially coming from "the best car manufacturer"

comparing a w215 and a 747 are completely different scenarios. a 747 is purchased with an understanding that you'll need to service it after every trip. the 215 is NOT purchased with the understanding that it requires an unreasonable amount of maintenance. it's something that's basically a surprise to someone when they get stranded somewhere because of an abc failure. the fact that multiple 215's were caught on fire and blown up because of abc related failure also adds to my point that the abc system is faulty, and a negative asset to the w215 platform. abc hoses blowing while driving the car is also extremely dangerous....

if the car was sold with a sticker on the car that says "a major component of this cars normal and safe operation is prone to failure and not even preventative maintenance can stop this" then i would totally and completely agree, but a failing suspension on a mass produced consumer car is very sub standard from "the best manufacturer"

i do appreciate your shared wisdom on the sway bars, i was thinking of the term body roll in relation to the sway bars so i figured (what is actually) the strut tower brace would be compensating for the cars body roll, instead of preventing the wheels from collapsing. perhaps my success with the system is because of my aftermarket wheel and tire setup, giving the tire more surface area on the ground?

edit:there will always be exceptions to components that are prone to failure. for example a ford that actually makes it past 500,000 miles. but the general consensus seems that the abc system is prone to frequent failure

w4sim

Is there a valve block at each corner, or is it one for the front and one for the rear shocks??? Sorry, but im still in the learning stages of ABC (suspension that is).

Iv found some prices to suggest around the $175 mark for each accumulator. But how hard are they to replace? And where are they, so i can take a look at decide for myself.

The pulsation dampener seemed to be a hard job from some of the stuff i was reading on here, but once we managed to loosen it off, the rest of it took about 5 minutes with minimal loss of fluid. Can i assume the accumulators are about the same?

Thanks.

ctravis595

i think theres one valve block for the front and one for the rear. if you're under the car a lot of the abc components are easily accessible, it's just a matter of getting under your car or getting it on a lift in the first place. keeping the fluid clean is very important though, apparently mercedes advises their service techs to keep the abc funnels in a special container just for the sake of keeping it clean. any contaminants in the abc system can be detrimental to the pump, valve blocks and accumulators as far as i know