paperchase

I have a 2005 CL600 and cannot figure out what head unit I have from the factory. All the info online is confusing. It has the look of the Command APS NTG1 with MOST not D2B, but my door speakers are Bose and I'm told that means it's a D2B. This is significant because there are no fiber optic interfaces that allow you to use the factory amp/speakers with other headunits if it's D2B. Can anyone clarify this point for me?

niceguyeddie

Hi Paperchase,

I agree it's confusing, I've just finished replacing the NTG1 unit on my 2005 CL500.

Mercedes(UK) used the VIN and told me that my car did not have fibre optics. It turned out that it did and I bought a 6m bypass cable in order to replace the head unit.

I have found no branding on the speakers from either Harman Kardon or Bose so I still have no idea what speakers I have. There is a factory woofer on rear shelf. The amp in the boot was made by Becker.

The orange "cables" are the clue to fibre optic. They route from the HU to the rear of the car where the amp/cd changer/satnav head unit were situated. The NTG1 head unit only had 5 wires coming out of it, 2 X orange fibre optics, power, ground and a blue amp trigger.

Having taken the plunge and using lots of advice from Xpression in his fantastic Chinese Android unit thread I have replaced my NTG1 with an Android 5.1.1 head unit from China. I am really glad I did. It's great. I had to remove the old amp, cd changer and satnav units as I don't think these are compatible with any after-market unit.

Attached are pics of the front and back of my NTG1. I hope they help!

Are you planning on replacing your unit with an Android one?

paperchase

That you love the Android unit is helpful because it is one I am considering. Pictures of it installed and operating are useful too.

As for our factory headunits, whether DB2 or M.O.S.T they are both fiber optic. This issue is whether one can use an aftermarket headunit using the factory amps and speakers. Several companies like AVIN and OPT1 make interfaces for this purpose but they are only compatible with M.O.S.T setups.

This is useful because, for example, I could use the Android headunit and leave the factory amps on the full range and then an aftermarket amp on the subwoofer; or, as some have done with reported success, just swap the headunit and leave everything else in tact. The reports are that dynamically the system sounds a ton better with increase bass response as well. Apparently, the stock sub in the rear shelf comes to life.

Another advantage of using such an interface is that you can at least power and open and close the CD changer and DVD players in the trunk (as the fiber optic loop remains unbroken), although they won't work on an aftermarket unit. And then there's the ease of returning the setup to factory should you choose to do so later or upon sale because you don't need to remove all these components. Plus, the point of the Android is to retain the factory look and not having empty spaces in your boot where equipment once was helps.

So it all takes me back to the question whether I have the M.O.S.T setup which, again, I'm told only comes with harman/kardon speakers not Bose like mine. If I don't have this setup, then the only true option is to replace the headunit, buy new amplification and essentially rewire the entire system.

So what else did you do in you install aside from replacing the headunit? Also with the Can-B bus what information still displays on the dash/instrument cluster? Do you get track number, radio station or (although I doubt it) artist name? I know you retain volume control. Lastly, tell me what you like about the Droid because I do have concerns regarding quality, bugs, fit and finish and sound quality. Thanks!!!!

biker349

good info. thanks.

niceguyeddie

Here is the forum thread I was referring to regarding installing Android:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post6518096

Here is the unit I bought (together with a 6m bypass cable and a Bluetooth OBDII transmitter):
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Quad-...347641640.html

I also installed a reversing camera from eBay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3018823968...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

There is talk of using an interface cable by AVIN or others on the first link above, but I decided to use a bypass cable and buy a new amp (Alpine MRV-V500, which I haven’t had time to fit yet). Currently I’m just running the four main speakers direct from the HU. As such I can’t say too much about audio quality as it’s still a work in progress.

I intend to keep the car for years (I only bought it 3 weeks ago) so restoring to original set up was not an issue for me – in fact I ended up cutting the metal caddy for the old amp so that the new one would fit in, which it does now very nicely. It will be hidden by the boot carpet and the extra space created by lack of changer and satnav should allow air to circulate.

When I ran the new 6m cable I also laid a 6m antenna cable, a 6m fakra cable (for GPS aerial), a 6m 3.5mm extension lead (for bluetooth mic), the cable for the reversing cam and a dual RCA cable just in case I’d forgotten anything! It took me nearly a day as I had to remove the back seats and all the boot trim, plus the rear interior trim on one side, but I was going very slowly and carefully as I hadn’t done this before. Youtube videos were priceless and it was well worth investing in a cheap pry tool kit from eBay.

I haven’t yet got the steering wheel buttons to work. I think I have the wrong CANBUS (probably my fault because I didn’t specify!). The one I have has W211 printed on it, and I have a W215. According to what I’ve read you’ll not get track name/number/station info on the dash – even with the right CANBUS! I’m in communication with the supplier and hope they’ll swap it or tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I wouldn’t claim to be an Android expert but I’ve had a couple of Android phones. The unit seems responsive, can multi-task smoothly and seems the real deal. The IGO sat nav (that came pre-installed) looks and functions great, the radio app does the job, the Bluetooth works as it should pairing to both my phone for calls or music and also to the OBDII which works well with the pre-installed Torque app. The reverse cam that I plugged in also works well. The finish of the unit looks very good, it fitted well and I haven’t yet noticed any bugs. It came supplied with a 8GB microSD card with the satnav maps on. I put a 32GB one in the other slot with music on it. I haven’t tried mirroring my phone yet, but apparently it’s possible.

Some pics are attached. I haven't installed any apps of my own yet. Everything shown was pre-installed.

awiner

Your 2005 uses the MOST fibre network.

paperchase

Thank you for the confirmation. Oddly, Avin, a supplier of the Android head units and the M.O.S.T. aftermarket interface, insisted otherwise solely based on the fact that my speakers are BOSE. They were confident that all MOST units run harman/kardon.

paperchase

The level of detail you have provided is much appreciated. Please continue to update as your stereo takes form. I'm right behind you. Where did you install the rear view camera? It looks to be as stealth as a parking sensor. I have been looking at the cameras that are part of the rear license plate light, but they seem to be available for almost every Mercedes except the W215.

By the way, one poster claims that the CANBUS will display the word "Track #" and allow you to track up and down, but nothing regarding name of song or radio stations.

tusabes

Nice guy Eddie , are you using the factory Mercedes amps and Bose speakers?

Are you now using the internal amp in the head unit , or an aftermarket external amp? If not using the factory amp, how do you wire up the Bose speakers ?

BlownV8

You can buy a module off installer.com so you can install any head unit that would fit. There are much nicer units than the Android units.

tusabes

Can you give some examples ?

I really like the apps and gauges on screen

niceguyeddie

@paperchase, yes I put the rear cam into the rear bumper, it's the same size as one of the sensors (pic below). The RCA lead I ran to the head unit for it also had a thin red cable with it. To get the HU to automatically switch to the camera when reverse gear is selected, this red lead had to be connected to reverse light power at the rear and a green wire marked "reverse" coming from the HU. There were actually 2 of these wires coming from the HU, but curiously only one did the job when connected (I left the other disconnected.)


I decided against a license plate light because it appeared to be easier to run a wire from the bumper than through the boot/trunk lid. (although I think this will fit - check the dimensions against your light - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-B...cAAOSwwbdWI3VJ )


@tusabes Sorry but I have no idea who made speakers. If I find out I'll post. I have 4 speakers in door front and rear left/right + 2 tweeters by the wing mirrors. There is also a centre speaker on top of the dash and a woofer + two smaller speakers on the parcel shelf.
At present I'm just using the HU's amp to power the main 4 speakers. This was plug and play with the 6m cable I bought with the unit. I will shortly be putting in an amp to power the speakers as done by Xpression (details in his post - link on post #5). All my speaker connections and amps were previously (and still will be) made in the trunk/boot left hand side underneath the CD changer and satnav units.

paperchase

@niceguyeddie I like your camera, but my CL600 doesn't have rear parking sensors as I like the look of a cleaner bumper and planned to get a rear camera anyway.

I guess the question is whether the rear license plate light on the W220 is the same size as on the W215. Does anyone know the answer to this question?

As an aside, given that we both have MOST, you may consider the AVIN product:

https://avinusa.com/most-fiber-optic...edes-benz.html

As it will utilize the factory amps on the door speakers and save you a bit of rewiring...if it's not too late. I've heard great things about it as paired with the Android deck.

Finally, the link you sent me to the 5.1 version deck doesn't work. What was the title or what were the search terms you used on the Ali site. I've been looking at them on ebay, but you never know one seller from another and if all the decks are really the same.

awiner

On the W215 models, 2003 was the last model year that used D2B. W215 models from 2004 onward uses MOST.

For whatever reason, Mercedes started to use Harman Kardon shortly after this time, but Bose remained the speaker supplier on the W215 even after the D2B to MOST change over.

paperchase

Got it. Very informative. One more question: are the amplifiers in the MOST equipped W215 harman/kardon? I ask because the description of the interface states:

"The AVIN MOST-MBE Fiber Optic Amp Interface allows the Mercedes Harmon Kardon factory amplifier, the output from all speakers including subwoofer, and premium sound quality to be retained when installing ANY aftermarket radio. This makes for a nice clean easy install."

I really appreciate the wealth of information available from fellow W215 enthusiasts.

And, by the way, what is the 40GB Color Integration into the Command that is referenced in your signature? Inquiring minds want to know.

niceguyeddie

I believe the license plate lights on my 2005 CL500 are the same size as the S Class. I took one off and measured it, but in the end decided to put cam in bumper.

I considered a fibre interface but decided against it for the following reasons - It's expensive (my new HU was only $295 and this interface alone is $249). It only has 2 input cables so I'm not sure how front/rear fading would work, or how the sub-woofer level would be controlled.

I searched for Android 5.1.1 Mercedes on the AliExpress site. I cant get the link to work but I bought from a company called Shenzen Roads who delivered quickly and have answered all my queries. i'm still in contact with them re: the CANBUS. If I bought again I would buy one that mentions CL or W215 as this may be the reason I'm having trouble with the steering wheel controls.

And for what it's worth the amp in my 2005 CL500 was a Becker model no. BE 7002 - part no. A220 870 28 89

paperchase

Sourcing: You ordered from AliExpress and I'm considering Alibaba: not sure of the difference but the cost is considerably less than ebay so I'll roll the dice. They said they need 5-7 days production time so deferred gratification it seems will prevail.

CANBUS: The unit I'm considering is specific to the W220 and W215 so hopefully no CANBUS issues. As I may have mentioned, several posters with E classes have confirmed very good CANBUS integration including dash display with track number, track name and radio station number with steering wheel control over volume and track up and down.

GPS Antenna: I know a special cable is needed for the radio antenna, but what about to retain the factory GPS antenna? Did you do that or just use the one they provided?

Rear View Camera: As for the license plate light with the integrated camera, the listing specific to the W215 situate the camera so it's attached and hangs of the lens cover, not a well designed as the one you considered. The W215 models provide dimensions for the part (height, width and distance between screw holes) which are also different, although it's a matter of millimeters. The W220 part is slightly larger in width and height but maybe it would fit or could be shaved a bit.

MOST Interface: Still on the fence here. I'm told the factory amps do significantly better paired to the Android unit and I think the system would run more efficiently if I leave that pairing in tact and simply focus on using an aftermarket amp to power the sub setup. But you are right it is pricey for the limited functionality it provides. Wouldn't worry about the fader issue though as we have coupes so front stage is most important unless you are riding 4 deep often. lol.

Best!

niceguyeddie

I believe Alibaba is more for wholesale and AliExpress retail. The after-sales support I've been getting from Shenzhen Kaize Technology (via AliExpress) has so far been very good. To diagnose the lack of steering wheel buttons working they asked for some pics of my cables (at the head unit end) and have now suggested snipping one of the wires, and if that doesn't work swapping two wires. Hopefully I'll get the chance to try that tomorrow...

The HU I bought stated it was compatible with the W220 (but W215 was not mentioned).

If you want to use the car's inbuilt aerials (GPS and radio) I think the only way is to lay some cables. If you're doing that - you may as well lay the 6m multicore bypass?

As well as the multi-core 6m cable I had to get:

A 5m radio antenna extension cable (male to female) for the radio signal.

A Fakra (male) to radio antenna (male) connector as the Mercedes' connector in the trunk/boot for the radio aerial is a female Fakra and the antenna input on the HU is a female. The one I bought claimed to be for some sort of BMW but if it's Fakra to aerial lead of course it really doesn't matter. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3810149360...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


For the GPS aerial a 6m Fakra to Fakra (male to female) extension lead. Male end used in trunk/boot, the female end towards the HU, in order to connect to the HU you need...

Male Fakra to SMB female convertor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2221095085...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This was the only item (apart from the HU and 6m multicore) that I couldn't source in the UK and it took about 3 weeks to arrive. The HU was much faster and arrived 8 days after ordering via DHL.

I also ran a 6m 3.5mm extension cable hoping to connect the car's inbuilt Bluetooth mic to the unit, but this didn't work. However the HU's inbuilt mic seems fine so I didn't investigate further why it didn't work.

I've now installed (but not finished tuning) an Alpine 4+1 amp. The sound was ok with just the 4 speakers powered by the HU but I think there is a great benefit achieved from having the sub powered. I'd imagine that just powering the sub with an additional mono amp would work almost as well. Where would you take the input for this amp from? I ran 6m stereo RCA cables from the HU to the boot/trunk. However the output marked "sub" from the HU didn't do anything when connected to the amp's sub input. In the end I used the amp's crossover to do this and I have bass!

Pry tools - well worth it!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3318334472...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


It's been a lot of work. I'm nearly, but not quite, finished, but I'm still loving the Android unit and consider it well worth the effort (and minimal expense). It's brought my lovely old car bang up to date. I love the ease of connection via Bluetooth, the USB/MicroSDcards for audio, the up to date satnav, plus the upgradeability and interchangeability of everything with an Android OS.
The reverse cam completes the upgrade magnificently!

paperchase

I'm not planning to do the install, but I want to put everything in the installer's hands they need to do the job right and without excuses.

Based on my research, I'm now leaning towards using all new amplification as I really don't think the factory speakers are getting enough power. Don't know if there is a gain control on the factory amps, but the system never gets very loud and the speakers never near distortion no matter how loud I turn up the volume. So, more power it is.

The 5.1 unit I'm considering specifies the W215 so hopefully the CANBUS will provide more functionality. The 5.1 also indicates it has a channel for subwoofer out which is good. Supposedly, the poor bluetooth reception issue during calls is fixed as well. We'll see.

I was reading your post for cables needed to use factory GPS antenna and I was a bit confused. Did you get a fakra male to female 6M cable and then convert the male end to female?

From what I can tell, I need the following (please confirm):

1. an antenna connector for radio like this.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...itle_1?ie=UTF8 &psc=1&smid=A3JV2WX8IXDD3A

2. a 5m bypass cable for fibre optic.

3. and to use the factory GPS antenna (and not the GPS antenna included with the unit), I need the following three (3) connectors:

* This one connects to the original GPS connector in the trunk and connects to the 5m long cable.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291315614952?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true
* This 5 meter cable runs from the trunk to the new head unit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-antenna-...dfCgRIoZ3qqsXQ

* This one connects to the Android head unit GPS port and converts it to male to match the 5 meter female cable.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222109508527?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true

niceguyeddie

For the GPS antenna yes I did get a 6m Fakra extension cable (male to female). The male end connected to the car's existing connection in the trunk/boot. At the HU end I needed a connector to convert the female Fakra of the extension lead to the HU's male SMA plug. Therefore I needed a male Fakra to female SMA connector (pic attached).

Your other queries:

1. Yes. That's the one. It is used in the trunk/boot to connect to the 5m antenna extension that you need to run.

2. Yes, although mine was advertised as 6m. I think it's important to buy this at the same time as the HU and from the same supplier as AFAIK they are unit and car specific.

3. Yes again (as in my first para. above). Although I only needed the two leads as the 6m extension I bought was male to female. If (as happened to Xpresion) you can only source a female to female Fakra extension cable then you'll also need the other connector [Satellite Extension Cable Fakra Plug to Male C pigtail for telematics or naviga]

Also of interest perhaps? I ran an RCA cable from the HU to the amp in the trunk/boot. I connected this to the HU's "sub out" but the amp received no sub signal and the sub was silent. Perhaps there's a setting I haven't found/changed yet on the HU unit, but at present the sub is being driven successfully using the amp's crossover (It's a 4+1)

niceguyeddie

...and the suggestion from the vendor (snip one of the wires on the 6m connector and change the HU Factory Settings/Canbus to "No" worked. I now have steering wheel controls for volume, station/track advance and back, and phone call make/terminate
I'll live without the track no. display.

paperchase

I'm glad you were able to get some functionality from the Canbus. I've had a hiccup in sourcing my headunit. I used aliexpress and my card company suspected fraud so they blocked the purchase. I called them and they lifted the block so I repurchased. It went through and then aliexpress closed the order requesting picture ID, SS card and a scanned image of my credit card to approve -- none of which I'm willing to provide. So I could use another source of payment, but I'm gunshy and wishing for simple old paypal.

I could always pay $250 more from an ebay seller shipping overseas. smh.

niceguyeddie

What a shame! I had similar (i.e. first attempt to pay was declined by bank) but bank texted me to ask if it was a genuine sale. I replied that it was and they said wait 10 mins before trying again. It went through the second time and all was good.
I would also be reluctant to send the card info they requested.
However, there are lots of sellers out there on Ali, so hopefully another one will have what you want and you can try again with them soon. Good luck!

paperchase

Well I tried again with another card. It was rejected by my bank then I called and reordered and it was accepted...then aliexpress cancelled the order asking for a copy of my card, SS card, etc. No way. I'm feeling like it's a ploy to obtain personally identifiable information for the purposes of fraud. Now I'm considering cancelling my cards and having them reissued under new numbers. Paypal would solve this, but aliexpress doesn't use paypal.

Even alipay is simply aliexpress holding your money in escrow for their sellers. I could always do a direct bank transfer, but again, more room for fraud. The last thing I want is someone in mainland China with my account number and routing number when they already have my card numbers, expiration dates, billing address, etc. I'm soooo frustrated right now. Bought a Eurocharged ECU to placate me, but I love my music and burning CD's to play on the archaic Command System is getting old. Ok, done venting. lol.

kyosuke

any particular reason you chose the Chinese variant opposed to a real android auto head unit ?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-...&skuId=5210800

im trying to decide which way to go android auto,chinese aftermarket head unit, or keep my command system and upgrade the maps and add a aux port some how.