AMG2GO

I remember a decade ago, going 0-60 in the 6's was fast. 5's was super car territory. Now 6's is slow. We have some cars in the high 2's.

200 horsepower was pretty respectable.... 300 was high... 400 was crazy. Now we have CL's over 600, and bugatti's over 900. Its just a matter of time before AMG turbocharges the 63 motor and gets into the 700+ neighborhood.

There are various cheap muscle cars making comebacks that will have 400+ HP, a Z06 at 60K has 500+ HP. A 30K Subaru WRX has 300.

Horsepower, is becoming cheap. Right now it still sells cars. But I wonder if in another decade, people will care as much about power as it will no longer be elusive. Cheap cars will all be high HP. If every car is fast, will it matter that much if yours is a hair faster?

I can't help but to think all this power comes with absolutely no consideration for waste or what it does for the environment. I remember Gordon Murray talking about how his next vision was not just about fast, but effecient yet fast. I love power, and 10% of my drive time is spent behind a gas guzzling V12. But I am aware of its waste.

Seems like gas wasting polluting SUV's are slowly becoming less cool, but instead 400 horsepower in your chevy is becoming the norm.

Does anyone know where this is all headed? The sticker on an aerodynamic CL65 says "13 MPG". That's the same as my first car, a 6000 pound Oldsmobile Toronado built in 1975. To me, this is clearly not the direction to be going in the future. Toyota is coming out with some powerful Hybrids. The Volta seems like a very cool car. Where is MB going?

Remonster

I'll tell you where its headed, engineers at car companies including Mercedes are always looking for ways to improve performance, this is a given, but they are also obviously working to reduce emissions and get better gas mileage without sacrificing performance. I think in the future (as in 10-20 years) we'll start to see cars that can not only do 0-60 in 4 seconds or less but also get 60-70 MPG. And the distant future will inevitably see the move away from fossil fuels simply because we are going to run out of them in a few years lol. Personally I dont want a car that uses anything other than gas (maybe diesel) I think hybrids are way too slow and dont get me started on hydrogen cars but if hydrogen cars or electric cars or whatever are performing in the same range as gas powered cars then and only then would I consider buying one of those, another thing is I can't get enough of the awesome exhaust sounds of today's super cars and even just sports cars but hybrids and hydrogen cars sound like....crap I guess. Thats just my $.02

medici78

Maybe so, but the M-B makes 4-5 times the HP as that Olds for the same amount of fuel consumed. If that's not efficiency, I dont know what is.

Sauceboy01

Great Point!

Yellow R1

AND produces 96% LESS pullutants (on avg, today's cars produce 96% less pollutants than those cars of the mid 70's due to increasingly stringent EPA mandates). To extract an additional 1% (go from 96% to 97% reduction) it costs, on avg, about $2.8k more car - it ain't worth it. We won that war already.

Next big deal for me is to use Ethanol. It employs Americans (not Sheiks), improves the US economy, decreases reliance upon foreign oil (wise for defense & economic purposes), reduces pollution & danger of oil spills via not transporting oil in 3rd party barges 1/2 way across the planet, it has an octane rating between 105 & 110 , and uses the same disty network via pumps (the oil guys just don't like it - too bad). I'll pay $3k/car to swap the fuel system & injectors for the cars I own if I knew where to take the cars for the work & its reliable (E85 is more corrosive than normal petrol). You lose 15% in mileage, but its more than offset by a lower priced fuel - especially as it becomes widespread tha gap will further widen.

-Matt

SL BRABUS

you ask........ Where is MB going with their future?.........It going to be a flying car........

egxpimp

Hybrid are not that bad... you should really go and take a test drive in one...its my commute car and i dont think i would like any other car as my commute car. Yeah at first i hated it, but hey i'm saving money, and the enviroment. I do 90mph on avg with my Hybrid and still get 40mpg.... you cant do that with your car, let alone drive 90mph on avg, or do you ? if not get a hybrid...its power its okay from 40-70...i'm sure those are the speeds that you mostly drive.

Ashkan's C43

the hp race is far from over, and 600hp seems to be a mean, v8s with 800, v8s with over 1000, v16s, all kinds of crazy power

Ashkan's C43

and for those who were going to say I was full of ****, and didn't know anything, here is your link... enjoy, and holy god what fast cars, also left out is spika (sp) and anything brabus or renntech or other tuners

http://www.forbes.com/2006/03/09/cx_...thisSpeed=3000

alroumi

I remember in the Late 90's Ferrari's area around 380hp and it was respectable
Now Mercedes are 500-600hp which are unbeatable in a straightline!

AMG2GO

Yes, but 13 MPG is still 13 MPG. The engine may be more effecient, but the vehicle isn't. I am not saying the technology hasn't improved or that the pollution levels haven't gone down. Its obvious one engine is more powerful. Thats what manufacturers are counting on to sell. Horsepower sells.

My point is that some day soon everything will be really fast. A high horsepower engine will be cheap because of the improved technology and you will have it in your Mazda.

Then what? will you buy an MB because it has 850 horsepower versus a Lexus that has 650 for example? Will you pay a lot more money for a fast car when an average car runs to 60 in under 5 seconds? These gaps are getting smaller.

I am saying at some point manufacturers have to realize this is a dead end road. And what will and should be important is a car that not only is fast, but fast and effecient. Clean. Its just irresponsible and bad business in the long run to keep banking on horsepower selling cars for you. Its shortsighted. Just like Ford and GM looking at SUV sales as their bread and butter and now they are both in trouble.

absent

I never cared about prices of fuel or what's the # of MPG was.
After having to stop at a gas station every 160 miles in my M5 though,I started to think more positively about the subject.
Mind you,still don't give a damn about saving the World's oil reserves (it's a stinky goo with no other purpose then being just fuel),I just want a better range in my car while not giving up any performance.
Top performance with better efficiency should be the new direction.

AMG2GO

I don't want to get moral or political on this forum because its not the place. But I will just say there are consequences to not caring. Getting that goo to your car sometimes comes at a serious cost. Turning that goo into power also comes with a serious cost.

I am just as much of an enthusiast as anyone else here and am not suggesting everyone sell their CL and buy a Prius. But if all MB does is up the horsepower with turbos and superchargers so they sell more cars with no other consideration, they are going to be in trouble long term.

Toyota understands this now.

absent

Plenty of oil for the next few hundred years(counting fields too expensive now to explore).
My point though,is that most people would not give a rats *** about the "future oil supplies",they want it now and let the future generation worry about their energy sources.There is more unneccesary oil use from power plants (instead of switching to nuclear like the rest of the civilized world) then from cars.
The automakers can make the cars as powerful as they are but increase the efficiency dramatically to keep the PC crowd and selfish *******s like myself happy at the same time.
Stopping for gas every 160miles is really annoying.......

ndabunka

Hydrogen powered vehicles will be the norm in the US. They also will probably fly. The Moeller car has been around a while and does fly but federal regulations re keeping it grounded until the new FAA system is up and going. Projections are that within our lifetimes (those under 50 now) we will see the first ones hitting the air. Here we go George Jetson!

slk55lvr

I've heard this argument quite a bit about being enviormentally friendly and it's almost always pointed at cars. If you truly want to leave "small footprints" on this earth, focus on energy efficiency in your house and business. Even if you drive your 13mpg 12 cylinder gas guzzler 40,000 miles a year, it's use PALES in comparison to heating and cooling a 6-8,000 sq ft house.
I think you'll find most of these new HP monsters will have cylinder de-activation and direct injection in the near future, so they'll still average 25-30 mpg unless they are WOT. If you really want to change the world, convince people to stop building these mansions on postage stamp lots, or better yet start forcing these things to be more energy efficient.

AMG2GO

This was just an observation regarding high horsepower Mercedes and other cars. Regarding the issue of high horsepower and long term viability of a manufacturer.

I am not starting any thread on saving the earth. I don't think that subject belongs on this forum, no offense meant towards your statements in any way.

cntlaw

Today, cars are getting sophisticated build and technology in terms of luxury, safety and features. Obviously more engine power is needed to maintain the heavier cars to achieve the same performance. That is why bigger engines are built. Recent years, there has been a trend to implant high power engines from heavy cars into lighter weight cars to achieve performance required in sports and yet cheaper than building a lighter car using expensive materials such as carbon fibre and alumimium. In a marketing and sales point of view, this trend seems to be a win win and definitely a welcome by someone who are really not ready to go for Porshce, Ferrari and Lambos for various reasons. So, if someone would take a AMG instead of a Porsche, MB wants to be part of the pie. And, MB is very speed to market, and that I guess was also why Japan government had to change their law to allow Japan mobile industry to build engine exceeding 280hp for market competitveness.

AMG2GO

Good points. You are right, it is cheaper to build more horsepower that to cut weight. And #'s sell... its just short sighted thinking.

Look at what has happened at Ford and GM who banked on high profit SUV sales. They are now screwed. I don't know how smart it is on MB's part to bank on the ability to produce high horsepower to carry sales. I mean lets face it... when it comes to producing lots of power, MB and AMG are #1 on the list right now.

What happens when gas hits $4 a gallon? The MPG #'s for MB is not looking that good these days. I hope MB doesn't screw themselves banking on the wrong thing like with Ford and GM.

Yellow R1

Im unclear why your premise is so focused on power. MB builds a whole line of vehicles, some with more power than others, but Hp is but one minor element of the overall buying experience. Factors like Quality, Prestige/History, Cost of ownership (includes price & lease options), Comfort, Storage space/room, Visibility, Safety, and Performance (Hp is but 1 contributing factor within the "Performance" category).

Your comparison of MB's overall market success & future to GM & Ford's SUV focus is limited in scope & disjointed? Those 2 US brands have MANY problems (which they are fixing), but I don't see the link you are trying to make between MB's AMG brand & Ford & GM's SUV focus?

Summary:
Hp in cars will continue to climb, albeit at a slower rate. People said the same thing about too much Hp in the 80's (200 Hp was HUGE, now its underpowered). 0-60 times of 6 seconds were AMAZING, now its commonplace for sport sedans (and slow for sports cars).

Ford & GM have actually been succesful in the SUV market for decades, its not this focus that has hurt their financials, rather, high costs (can you say Unions?) & inefficient capacity utilizations (driven by a historical lack of factory consolidation driven by declining market share) have been their undoing. They can close factories, but maintaining Unions will ultimately kill them since they must compete with other countries building the same or higher quality cars for less money (workers make $5 - $10k/yr, not $200k, for low skilled labor). Ford & GM are finding out cars are becoming a commodity like tennis shoes....people in other countries will take their jobs & market share by working for a fraction of the overblown Union negotiated salaries paid in the US. Thats my tirade. Happy Easter!

-Matt

SLcharger

To my opinion, people tend to buy expensive/less expensive high power cars because of two things. First, there is the pleasure, driving sutch a car. Second, it gives status, prestige, to drive sutch cars. Right now, power is the cool choice, so people go for it, although they have no need for it. Its just a show off. Its a matter of what signals you want to send to the people arround you. In the everyday driving, the power is not useable, and it is more a matter of having it, than using it. Car manufacturers are not only creating and building cars, they also create needs, through smart advertising, so that people think they cant live without the latest creation/power upgrade. This will continue, as long as the politicians allow it, and only new winds on political scene will change it. Right now no politician are prepared to surgest any radical changes, since that would be political suecide. Reducing people´s acces to what ever car they want, is not an option right now.