TMC M5

I hate to disagree with you (for no other reason than you think I am sniping), but I think the C63 and CLK63 BS are much better homes for the 6.2L V8. You can even make a case for the E63. The SL63 curb weight is 4,398lbs (not too far off from the SL65's 4,555lbs). With two passengers the car is probably pushing around 4,720lbs (assuming around 160lbs per occupant). An E63 weighs 4,035lbs without passengers. Even if 4 seats are occupied, the E63 is weighing in at around 4,675lbs (assuming 4 occupants at 160lbs). A C63 weighs in at 3,649lbs, so it obviously is much much lighter, but it has been "de-tuned" down to 451hp. However, it supposedly is making 443lbs-ft of torque which is not too far off from the 465lbs-ft torque that all the other 63 engines are rated at. The CLS63 weighs in at 4,210lbs, so with the 640lbs of 4 occupants, it is pushing around 4,850lbs.

http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...cedes-Benz/E63

http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...s-Benz/SL%2063

http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...cedes-Benz/C63

http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...des-Benz/CLS63

The 63 engines do use different exhaust systems, but the torque is rated all the same, with the exception of the C63.

Tom

sound 8

Disagreeing is better than no response at all, but I am not just talking about weight.As I said, I drove the E63 but preferred the grunt in my E55.Also you could get 4 people weighing 200 lbs each and lots of luggage which could add
an extra 1000 lbs to the car where the pulling power of the 55/65 engine is
better. More a case of how the power develops rather than just power.
What I failed to get over was the SL63 makes a loud and an extremely nice
noise, my CL65 was very quiet, if it wasn't for the speedo moving like the rev
counter you never believe the speed you would be doing. It would in my opinion be ruined by a loud exhaust, as would a S,E, or CLS would.
These are meant to be executive cars, more than sports cars. Just my two pennies worth.

TMC M5

Well I barely need both hands to count the # of times I have had 4 occupants in my CL65, Audi RS6 and BMW M5 combined...and that spans 7 years. You are making a pretty big assumption that just because you have the space that you will be using it with any frequency. Who drives spiritedly with that kind of passenger and boot load?

Tom

sound 8

Surely you buy an S class to carry people. I only use mine when there is more than 2 of us.Both my Dad and I weigh just over 200 lbs. My friend and
my wife add just over another 300lbs. There's 700lbs without luggage, and by
heavens my wife CAN take a bit. I never carried any passengers in my CL65,
just me, the SL55 just me and occasionally my friend or my wife, that,s why
I traded them for the 63. To me it's horses for courses, and the S600 drives
totally different to the SL63, that's good then I don't get bored.
But let me ask you, what would you choose, a SL600 or a SL63, the same applies to S,E and CL class. You may prefer the V12TT or superchaged V8,
but you would loose the AMG badge.

TMC M5

My choice SL65...I don't believe in compromises. But I would choose an SL600over an SL63. I could care less about the the badging. I love torque. If I wanted a great handling sports car it wouldn't be wearing an MB/AMG badge.

Tom

sound 8

OK then what would you prefer a SL65 or a CL65.
I think I am getting there!
If you could only have one that is!

TMC M5

I need the extra space for my daughter...that broke the toss-up in the CL65's favor.

Tom

sound 8

I am sorry to hear that. I feel that MB have made a huge effort to make a
real sports car and try to lose that slightly stayed image. It's a shame you
don't support it. There are better handling cars than the SL63, the R8 for
instance, however my allegiance lies with MB on all models and as a
package the SL63 works very well. I am not there yet, but consider myself
a MB World Fanatic, are you?
Paul Sound 8

TMC M5

Absolutely not...I don't like fanaticism in any form.... it turns people into sheep and usually results in very bad outcomes. If everyone was a MB fanatic there would be no point in MB improving the breed...why would they if they knew they had a captive audience.

Where has MB made a "real sports car"? The MB CLK63 Black Series was a great effort. However, its $138K price put it into a league of competitiors where its overall perfomance and appeal is so so. Also, the car started life as a mid-sized coupe, not the best starting point for a true sports car. If you are referring to your SL63, then we having diverging definitions...mine does not include 4,398lbs two seaters.

Tom

Carl Lassiter

You'll rarely hear me say this, but the above is a perfect post.

TMC M5

Thanks Carl!

Tom

sound 8

Compliments by an M5 owner, says it all, but does not answer the question.
Have you a fetish for weight!!

TMC M5

It is vapid comments like that, that make me open the verbal can of whoop-@$$ on you... How does the fact that Carl owns an M5 make his statement or opinion invalid or somehow tainted???

How didn't I answer your question??? Did I need to repeat what you wrote and affirm it (in the negative) within the body of the same sentence? Ok...I, Tom, am not a MB Fanatic...are you satisfied now?

We are talking about "true" sports cars...are we not? A "true" sports cars does not carry around 2,000 kg before adding passengers or cargo. Weight is a sports car's enemy. Weight hurts a sports car's handling, acceleration and braking performance. Sure, engineers can try to compensate in each category by coming up with simple and clever remedies. Acceleration can be improved by increasing power... braking can improve by putting in bigger brakes... handling can improve by putting in anti-roll bars, better dampers and clever suspension geometry. These are all great additions but it doesn't make it a true sports car. There is only so much that can be done to compensate for the laws of physics for a 2,000kg car. The revised ABC suspension is great engineering, but is still limited in its artificial feel. Actually, the SLK55 is much closer to "true" sports car status than the SL63.

Tom

sound 8

I am quite shrewd with how a car works , so need to keep explaining!
I mentioned BMW once and got lots of stick, if someone owning a beemer
congratulated me, I guarantee I would get stick.
Tell me where it says a true sports car doesn't carry around 200kgs.
If you were that bothered about weight you wouldn't be driving a two and
a half ton monster!

TMC M5

I really do need to explain things to you...probably in greater detail than I already do...my car is a 2005 CL65 which weighs approximately 4,650lbs. It is HUGE. I enjoy my car for what it is...it is a luxurious, high performance GT (Grand Touring, Gran Turismo, or whatever else you want to call it). A CL65 is not a sports car (yes...I did have to explain that to you). Thus, I am not bothered so much by its weight, because it is not designed to be a sports car nor is it mis-used as such.

When I think of sports cars, I think of auto-crossing and road courses. The CL65 has no place in those types of activities. I used to be a PCA member (Porsche Club of America) and went to a number of auto-crossing events with my brother. I highly doubt your SL63 (with adequate driver) could get around an auto-cross course quicker than a well driven Boxster S or even a Mini Cooper S. Your sports car delusions of grandeur would quickly crumble under the weight of your car (ego), if you competed in such an event.

Tom

sound 8

When I was young an MGB was considered a sports car, it was lighter than
todays sports car but that's because it only had small bhp, prehistoric
suspension and archaic brakes. Sure you can get light modern sports cars,
they remove all the goodies and charge more. How dare you say that
engineers came up with simple and clever remedies, in fact advancement in suspension,brakes,
drive systems and sophisticated ecu's to control them is hardly simple.
Every body wants,sat nav,aircon,tv,sun roofs( rather than a manual fitting
piece of canvass) is what has made modern sports cars heavy, along with auto boxes. We have become a nation of softies not willing to brave the
elements as you did in a MGB. I'm afraid weight is here to stay, unless people
are prepared to pay for Carbon Fibre or/and Ali. You may prefer the SLK but
when I test drove one I found the seats small and the ride unforgiving, plus
there seems to be a slightly girlish image attached. I realize you don't like the
SL63 or maybe it;s just me, maybe you will send me a more opiate reply.

sound 8

I don't know why you can't have a discussion without rude and pointed remarks, I think it shows your lack of confidence.
And why don't you refer to a SL63 and not MY SL63 or my ego!
And please TRY to remember I am talking about cars you buy for road use.
Driving on a track is a completely different ball game.
I have no intention of driving on a race course of any type, and I couldn't
give a monkies what club you drove in. You continually fudge the issues
I post,you are beginning to sound like some other members whose only
contributions are... I can drive better than you...I know more than you...
and my car is better than yours. I am lucky to have enough to buy a new
63 ,is it this that's poisoning your thoughts.

TMC M5

You make benighted comments that are both self-serving and out right wrong. Yet you are shocked and dismayed by my "pointed" responses. I am sorry, I have very little patience for people who are fanatical in their devotion to a false-idol...or ideal.

I never said I drove anything at the auto-cross....all I said is that I watched true sports cars run around an auto-cross course. If you want to live in a sheltered world and not see what a "true" sports car is capable of...that is clearly your choice and your freedom. You would fancy that your SL63 is a great handling sports car and want to tell the world about it. But your lack of perspective is the "cost" for sticking your head in the sand. Maybe If I only knew about the SL63 and hadn't driven true sports cars, I would think that the SL63 was a sports car as well...

My thoughts are not "poisoned" by your purchase...you really do give yourself way too much credit. The SL63 is a wonderful touring roadster... it is not a sports car. That doesn't mean I don't like it....or that it is inferior to other cars. It just is not a sports car...plain and simple. There is no scorn or contempt for the SL63....only for the people who do not want to face the reality that they did not buy a sports car and that MB/AMG is not the end-all-be-all of high performance cars.

Tom

mfncl63

Tom - well said. You are a patient man.

Quadcammer

thank god someone else understands this.

good post.

MB_Forever

Excellent post Tom and I agree with almost everything you said but it is sometimes hard to control your passion and your feelings about a brand. I consider myself a Mercedes-Benz fanatic, as I love the cars and the quality, but I also do criticize when needed.

sound 8

You never answer questions, 63 engine in S or CL for instance, or where
does it say a sports car must be under 2000kgs, you are like a politician.
My SL is not a sports car, it's a super car!! I got fed up with your so called
knowledge so I have been setting you up!
Tom can answer this!!
I bow to your knowledge!!
and you have taken the bait every time, you really are so vain!
But then you revert to insults. Bye.



Insults are an expression from those less intelligent.

Prince Philip.

Quadcammer

wow, you are really a bit lost when it comes to physics huh?

weight absolutely ruins everything about a performance car.

And your SL63 is nothing even remotely close to a super car.

520bhp with 4400lbs is a weight to power ratio of about 8.5lbs per hp.

Thats in line with with a standard Porsche 911 Carrera S. Hardly a super car.

Not to mention the AUTOMATIC (read: Boring) tranny (don't care if they call it the MCT), the feedback less steering, and quite frankly, the absolute lack of any driving involvement.

You like your car. GREAT! Stop trying to convince people its something its not (a sports or super car), and stop thinking its better than a 911 Turbo, because it isn't.

sound 8

Look my friend, others talk while I test. Unless you have driven both 998
Turbo and SL63 you have no right to comment. All you are doing is telling
us your favorite car without back up. A sports car to me is not just about
power , or brakes , or weight, it's about how much pleasure you get when
driving it. There will always be faster cars, lighter cars and better looking
cars. To me the 63 offers everything I want, so please stop justifying why
I should have bought a Porsche!!

SL2003driver

Hey guys what is a super car? Is their an official definition? I'm not trying to get in this fight, I look at my present ride as a classy ride that can be somewhat entertaining to drive but also not seen often where I live. I've only seen one other in the 4 months I've owned it which I think is SUPER