sunpointair

I've researched the previous threads and haven't found a answer to this. I am getting ready to install a set of Kleemann headers and downpipes. It looks like the easiest solution is to delete the primary cats and install race cats, X pipe, or even just a straight pipe where the secondaries are now. I am a dealer and I don't have any inspections to deal with, being this is my personal car, until I go to sell.
I've read about some of you having problems with the race cats coming apart ? Kleemann sells some 200's and was thinking about going with them.. Question is, do I install the race cats, a X pipe or even just straight pipes to the existing resonators and mufflers ? I want this to sound good without being obnoxious !
I know this will come down to personal preference, but, I am sure there are a few on here that have gone thru this and hopefully will have some input ! Thanks !

Mercedes22

I have just had the secondary cats taken off my CL and the centre muffler's.

Do not take the centre mufflers off. I think your word obnoxious is very appropriate. I have now put them back on, sounds great.

steimann

i have custom rear mufflers and removed the rear cats and resonators and it sounds unbelievable! so aggressive when you accelerate and not too loud at idle or fwy speeds...perfect in my opinion

Patentmat

Removed just the rear cats and left everything else stock. This keeps the sound close to stock, but just turns up the volume. I would start with that and see how you like it. I had a muffler shop make the change for under $100.

sunpointair

Thanks Guys for the response ! I talked with Cory from Kleemann and he seems to think that since I don't have to deal with a inspection that I should just run the downpipe to the stock resonators and stock mufflers, without any cats, and try that. He thinks it will be quite a bit louder, but, still have a good sound ! This will save my stock exhaust without cutting anything up ! I think I am going to give that a shot.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Pat, what do you mean when you say rear? The 1st set or the 2nd set? Does removing them throw codes and/or require STAR reprogramming not to throw codes? Thanks

Patentmat

Reading what I wrote - - it could have been the resonators I had removed. It has been years since I did it, but basically working backwards from the end of the system you have the mufflers, then for each pipe you have another component, a little smaller than the muffler. Those are what I removed. I replaced them with straight pipes. Removing this part threw no codes and I have passed California smog since then.

I'll snap a picture of the system today and post it back here in a few hours.

AMGTestDriverNJ

Thanks that would be really helpful...

Patentmat

Alright I have attached a picture and a video of my setup. In the pictures the rear of the car (and the mufflers) are off screen to the right. On the left side of the picture you can see part of the Y in the system. On each fork of the Y, just after the split, I have removed what I"m pretty sure is the resonator (someone please confirm) and replaced it with a pipe. The pipe in the distance actually looks shinier than the rest of the system and is easier to spot.

To show what a difference just removing these two parts makes, I also recorded a quick video, which isn't searchable on YouTube but which you can see through this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Yv3...e_gdata_player

That great sound is why I suggest people start with this simple change before diving in deeper with new mufflers.

sunpointair

Patentmat, It looks to me and from what I see and what I read in the previous threads, you have removed the resonators. After talking to Kleemann, they talk like you will get a drone at highway speeds removing that. Does yours ?
As to removing the cats. If you remove the primary cats and don't reinstall the O2 sensors you have to have the ECU reprogramed. If you remove the secondaries, you probably won't pass emission test.

Patentmat

It sounds like your information from Kleemann is accurate. Removing just the resonators does create some drone at very low RPMs. I have been in many cars with drone on the highway, and it is relatively minor comparatively. For a Benz any drone may be unacceptable I suppose, but it is minor enough that it does not bother me at all. I tried to record the sound today while on the highway, but it is too quiet compared to tire/wind/background noise for the mike to pick it up.

sunpointair

Are there any members that are running Kleemann headers ? I'd love to know what you are running for cats, X pipe, resonators ?

Mercedes22

I had the secondary cats removed and the the centre boxes remove big mistake. Had to have them put back, very heavy resonating inside of the car.

CharlestonN

Does removing the cats and or doing a resonator delete effect performance at all? I was told it can hamper torque

sunpointair

I think I have about wore Cory from Kleemann Headers out on this subject ! We come down to a conclusion that the best all around setup for me was to install headers, delete the cats all together and leave the resonators and mufflers. This would still give me the sound I am hoping for and improve the performance. He strongly felt that I should keep the resonators so I wouldn't get that highway drone.... I still haven't been able to get anybody to respond as to this setup as to sound though....

Exotic-metal55

I have large long tubes, stock muflers, stock resonator, 3" X pipe and no cats right now.. Not having cats sux!! With cats, had no drone and a tone of power!! No, I have some drone and stinky exh... I crushed one set of cats and blew out another set.. Putting cats back on this week!

With Kleeman, I would remove rear cats and put and X, then call it done!!!

Exotic-metal55

No, it increases HP and TQ on our S/C engines.. Have over 60 dynos and track test to verify my statements.

sunpointair

Exoctic-metal55, After reading your previous post and having problems with the race cats coming apart on you that was one big reason that I liked Corys suggestion to remove the cats completely ! I hate to hear that you have a drone without them, it also sounds like you have a lack in performance also. Kleemann sells a 200 race cat..... What are you going to install next ?


Have you tried running a straight pipe instead of the X pipe ? I was told that the X pipe will create a drone at specific RPM's.......

Exotic-metal55

Drone is a tough adjective. Just to loud is my word for it.. Lack of power,, that is funny..lol Un-true but funny..

I found a better series of cats and they are going back on this week. Love the sound that I had with my huge long tube headers.. FLat out scarry!!! Without cats, you will get raw fumes all over your cloths and in your car.. In a short time, your nice CL, will smell like an old school Chevelle! To each is own but I am a fan of cats! It is a street car and not trailor queen.




X is staying and I like my CL55 set up!!

sunpointair

You know I've been so concerned about noise and performance that I really hadn't thought much about the gas fume aspect. You make a good point ! I just really hate the idea of replacing the race cats after you weld them in. Guess you could always put flanges on em ? If there is room ?
I did have a BAD Azz Chevelle when I was younger ! Ha ! How did you know ? Ha ! I don't think it was as fast as your CL though..... I don't remember the fumes, probably didn't care then.
I wouldn't call my CL a Trailer Queen.... Doesn't have a lot of miles and spends quite a bit of time in the garage, but hasn't spent much time in a trailer.... just a part time,fair weather driver.

Exotic-metal55

I am sure your CL is sweet! I hate to see them get hacked up! My Cats V band clamp and then band clamp at my X, so I can chage to off road pipes eeasy.. The klees are good clean headers for our cars. They do not make the power of large Long tubes but fit very nice, no vibration and easy to attach cats too.. Our CL mufflers are louder and flow bettere than the E class. I have had them side by side and looked inside with a scope..

The best cats going are random technology! They are pricey but compact, no HP loss and will not blow out! If you ADD Klees, then run 2.5" pipe to the first cats, then put a X in place of the rear cats, I think you will love the sound, the power and keeping your AMG exhaust somewhat in tact.. If the primary cats have to go, then yes you have plenty of room for V band clamp your cats..

The raw gas fumes are horrible! Especially on a moded car! One slight breeze and it sticks to you and your car like glue!

sunpointair

I looked up the Random Technology race cats you talked about. If they don't blow out that would be Fantastic ! I didn't see a guarantee on that though.... Ha! Do you have somebody that has used or tested these ? I take it you are talking about the metallic 7000 series ?

Exotic-metal55

Yes, that is the series.. I have used them on other high HP cars and also know a lot of people that use them on high hp race cars. They are very good quality..

Here is my cat and X pipe set up.. It is made by pypes, bought from Jegs racing and it is a tunnel X pipe for an old school chevelle.. 3" and about 140 bucks for all the kit with no cats. Had to do some cutting and re-welding to make it fit was a great kit for the price..

benz_addict

Nice work!

I went with 3" from the headers to no cats at all, inplace a 3" dual x muffler then to reso's then mufflers.

sunpointair

Not A Chevelle again ! Ha ! That really looks great ! Running the Kleemanns i wonder if i need the X pipe like you do ? I know you're right about how much more those large long tubes put out. I plan on keeping the resonators and mufflers.... ?
Since i bought the pulley from you I have the headers, 82mm TB, and I've been talking to Jerry at Eurocharged trying to get down there and get all this done. I was going to do the exhaust prior, but, may just get it all done there to get a before and after !
Those cats seem like the ticket ! Have you put rm on yet ?