victoryroad

The only way to keep potential buyers informed of dealership practices is via forums like this, but if well doucmented problems found their way into wider media, all the better. Perhaps dealers would be less inclined to take liberties with customers whether they are buying CL's or C class cars.
Also, due to non-disclosure agreements that dealers or manufacturers usually require with buy-back customers, it is very difficult to get information about such problems when researching a particular model. That is especially true for potential buyers of the BMW 7 series or the new Audi A8.

Belmondo

"It's not likely that I'll give up because I've already racked up some decent bills with my law firm and that would just add insult to injury if I droppped it now."

Looks to me like "your law firm" is taking you for a ride as well.


Can someone care to explain were its Mercedes-Benzes fault? The guy takes delivery of a car from a dealership 3000 miles away with different VIN #, drives it than at some point realizes something is missing and blames MB for something that should have been checked upon delivery. if I remember corrrrrectly MB gave new E class to all the owners of the E class to wich promised navigation system could not be installed later. How is MB not doing its part? I can understand the frustration but once again how is that MB's fault? Its between NJ dealership , you and your bill racking law firm.
I just dont see how MB USA is responsible for every transaction between individual and dealership. If you got a lemmmmmon sure,go directly to MB but how is frodulent transaction (according to you) between you and the dealership ( 5 laws broken) includes
MB USA ? According to you and hte papers at your "law firm" the law has been broken and broken by dealership and not MB USA, bills have been racked, proceed with the case, punish those who did you wrong. As far as I know MB USA can change dealerships car allocation and thats about it.

FIXEDupW209

the car in which he and the dealership agreed to buy and sell repectively was not the same. He, being 3 thousand miles away was unable to see the car but agreed based on the options and was given a vin #. Once he was given the car, he realised he wasn't given one of the options he paid for and checked the vin# and realised they sold him the wrong car. That is in no way his fault.

Belmondo

Absolutly agree, not his
( from his description of it) and definitly not MB USA. Looks like a clear cut case from what he says here, why not take it to court and do the right thing? How can someone allow law firm to "rack the bills" and be only kind of interested for it to go to court? If the whole reason is bluffing and to expect that MB USA that had nothing to do with this transaction to come in and fix it than its just unrealistic.

Corey140

I don't think he is suing MBUSA, the case is most likely pending against Ray Catena. That's who committed the fraud not MB.

Belmondo

If you go to page 2 this is what you will find:

"Mercedes corporate has structured their company in such a way as to protect them from the actions of the dealerships. Mercedes corporate said that it's between me and the dealer and that they have no obligation to do anything. They did offer to correct the cosmetic differences in the car (wheels, floor mats et.), but were unwilling to do anything more. Needless to say Mercedes and the dealership are both named in the suit.

Mark:"


Somehow he thinks MB USA has anything to do with it. So I can undestand The NJ dealership being in the suit but once again how is MB USA responsible for every bad transaction between individual buyer and the dealership?

Belmondo

Also how do you like the whole "Scammed by Mercedes" head for the thread?
Do you think its right? He is clearly frustrated but how does putting erroneous information in the threads name suppose to help his case with NJ dealership?

FIXEDupW209

Belmondo you are going way too into detail into this.

large corporations make it so that the smaller dealerships you can say are on their own. They pay for the mercedes name but if they do something wrong(ie: sell the wrong car) they are held responsible. However, as the owner of te name, mercedes is also responsible as they have not helped the gentlement out. (besides offering a replacemnt of wheels and what not). Now, if you are going to pursue it legualy, then the cost of lawyers is evident and you either go through with it all the way or you dont. You are not going to hire a lawyer, pay the lawyer and then quit before it goes to court cuz you are sick of paying the lawyer. That is actualy what mercedes will hope for in a case like this.

Belmondo

Yes details are king. Not getting the details is what gets you in trouble in the first place.


Of the five borken laws identified by his "law firm"------which one did MB USA broke?

Looks like we will just have to disagree.

victoryroad

It is obvious that sequencesf was scammed by Mercedes. Dancing around the facts and suggesting that sequencesf's attorneys are running his legal bills is nonsense. MBUSA and the dealership are hoping that they can run him around the legal barn enough that he will stop. Even a non-lawyer can see that the denendants face the prospect of punitive damages.
BTW, belmundo, what is your solution to the car owner's problem if he has no basis for his claims?

Belmondo

Did you even read through his posts?
Lets look together


"Hi guys. As it turns out, the saga with Mercedes got even more interesting. I finally figured out what they were doing.

(WHO ARE THEY? DEALERSHIP ? WhAT exactly was MB USA DOING?)

The car I saw advertised and that I agreed to buy was a production model 2003 CL55. I was working with a dealer in NJ

( HE WAS WORKING WITH A DEALERSHIP IN NJ, NOT MB USA)

so I couldn't go see the car, but Ray Catena is the largest dealer in NJ so I wasn't too worried. So I signed the purchase agreement and paid for the car.

That's when they made the switch. The shipped me a "pre-series" car. The VIN was even different that the one on the purchase agreement. The pre-series cars are prototypes and are often different than production cars.

(ONCE AGAIN, WHO DID HTE SWITCH, MBUSA OR THE DEALERSHIP? OBVIOUSLY DEALERSHIP)


Mercedes does sell their pre-series cars, but requires that the dealership disclose it.
( THAN what did MB DO WRONG HERE?? ITS THE DEALERSHIP THAT HAS TO DISCLOSE. I'M SURE MBUSA DISCLOSED THAT WHEN THEY SOLD IT TO THE DEALERSHIP. )


And it is printed on the window sticker. And I would have seen it except that they faxed me the sticker from the car I thought I was buying. Their motive was to move a pre-series car for full sticker and figured I’d never notice the switch.

So in the end I figured it out and a lawsuit is pending as we speak. They have not offered to settle yet,

ONCE AGAIN< WHO ARE THEY?< DEALERSHIP?


but since they documented their own fraud I'm not sure that they will have much choice, but we'll see. Of course, the demand is for a new production model CL55. I’ll keep you posted.

Mark




THe solution is in the UNITED STATES LAW, buddy. ARe you saying htere are no laws that punish FRAUD in this case done by the dealership ? MBUSA is clearly just not part of it. Dealership clearly new what they were doing if they were switching hte stickers from two different cars.




I'm not here to argue just to say the buyer here delt with dealership, not MB USA, he presented no evidence that MB USA had anything to do with it.
The switch was done by the dealership. THats all. THe car is not a lemmon and it has MB full warranty on it and came with the right sticker since NJ dealership had both. Dont you need at least to stickers for a switch to work in hte first place?
You sue the dealership not hte company that sold the car with proper sticker to the dealership. The dealership had two correct stickers for two cars, htey just chose to switch them, according to his story.

PLEASE point out specifically what fraud did MB USA do here.

English is not my first language I do apologize for the grammar.

mjr24

I think he is suing the dealer too, but you know what....as is the case in civil lawsuits, you dont necessarily go for the defendant who is liable, you go for the defendant who has the $$$. It is the same with the law firms too....go for the defendants with $. No, MBUSA really had nothing to do with this whole thing, it was the dealer, but it wont be looked real well upon MBUSA that they could have easily solved this and did not. It is a shame what happened...I mean it is friggin ventilated seats for crying out loud, if they had just given him a car with the seats, he wouldnt have found out all of this other stuff. Im sure MBUSA's lawyers werent counting on that being found out. Regardless, a civil lawsuit is a game of chicken....you guys are right...they purposely turn down deals because they have money, and know most people dont have the money to keep a lawsuit going against them. Its a good legal strategy, although maybe not the best customer service.

Belmondo

Once again, friend, please read one of his post, here is what it says:


"I was working with a dealer in NJ so I couldn't go see the car, but Ray Catena is the largest dealer in NJ so I wasn't too worried."


So according to your logic the largest MB dealership in NJ does not have any money and there fore you have to go after MBUSA?

sequencesf

Though switching of the cars was done by the dealer, I don't think it's fair to absolve Mercedes of all responsibility in this case. The car I have is fundamentally different from a production model car. The seats are just the beginning. The car is different right down to the wiring harness. The car displays no warnings ie. low fuel, door open, hood open. It's different from that cars advertised by Mercedes in it's appearance as well. The car is not a lemon, but it’s also not what I agreed to purchase based on the marketing materials from Mercedes and the information supplied by the dealer. Mercedes advertised the car as one thing and sold something else. In fact, when I had it serviced, the dealer asked me if the car had ever been wrecked. What did he mean? He would not say why he wanted to know but it’s an odd question. This car was imported to the U.S. SEVEN MONTHS before I purchased it. Where was it during this time? What exactly are these pre-series cars?

The dealer pulled the switch, but Mercedes put this car into inventory. Why are they not potentially culpable for selling this pre-series car.? Yes they print it on the window sticker, but ask any salesman, service tech or even Mercedes themselves and nobody claims to know anything about it. How is that fair to the consumer?

I have owned 21 different cars from Hondas to Ferraris and I have had many encounters with unscrupulous dealers and salesman. I’ve run three companies, bought dozens of properties and yet I have never filed a lawsuit in my life. This time it just really made me angry. I tried everything I could but they will not admit to anything or offer any help. That leaves me with only one alternative. This has been going on for more than a year now. I realized that the car was not what I had agreed to purchase the minute it arrived. They have done nothing for more than a year and it’s not right. Perhaps Mercedes corporate needs to change their policy regarding these pre-series cars and maybe being party to this suit will help them do that.

Mark

Karl

Just my educated guess, but I will bet you that car you received was a MB training school car. That is where almost all the early pre-production cars go. I have seen Euro version 211's that they try to teach techs with and the instructers say "pay no attention" to what you see in the trunk, USA version cars will be different". I have seen some with NO vin numbers anywhere on the cars!
Your dealer probably thought the car had been wrecked because it will have been disassembled and reassembled over 100 times.

Kar don

man i want to see some pics of this thing! That is ridiculous! Take a pic of the sticker on the B-pillar.

Canuck

Good grief! Assuming that all the facts are accurate, maybe contacting a local Consumer Action Group or a Better Business Bureau (if there is such a thin in NJ) may help as well. I would also hope that MBUSA take a more active role in this situation if for nothing else than to be 'seen' to be taking the consumer seriously. Good luck Mark.

victoryroad

The Bentley GT seems to be in a class of its own--unique and attractive styling and exceptional dynamic capabilities. Would appreciate knowing impressions of an owner.

nrosoff

I have bought 5 cars from Ray Catena. They have always treated me well both during the sale and subsequent service. Two of my cars - one of them a CL600 - were custom orders and both came exactly as I requested.

The sales manager name is Tony Raymos. He is located at their Edison NJ location. The phone number is 888-623-3435. Maybe you try to work it out with him before you spend to much money on lawyers.

Good Luck

sequencesf

Thanks for the help, but I'm finished talking with these guys. Catena has taken the position I expected they would. They maintain that it's within their right to switch cars with customers up until delivery and that mismatched VIN numbers are not a problem. They said that any discrepancy in how the car is configured is a problem I need to take up with Mercedes corporate. They have all had 15 months to do something rather than blame the other guy. Time's up.

RJC

What a nightmare. I too agree MB has to, at the very least, TRY to help their customers especially if there is a possibilty of fraud or any type of dirty dealings and OR when a customer reaches out to them in writing with a cry for assistance especially on the flagship series of their automobile. Whether you have a legal case or not there is enough gray matter in the deal that they should at least offer to make a phone call to the GM of the dealership, that way they could have shown you they tried to help. When the parent company shows no desire to get involved it only creates bad will with ITS customers. You are an MB customer just as much as a Ray Catena customer and without its customers MB is nothing. I don't give a rats *** about the legal loop holes MB has created within their LLC to further themselves from their dealers sales transactions. But if I were MB I sure would care about retaining customers and brand loyalty especially with JD Power ratings at the lowest they've ever been. The luster of the three pointed star will only go so far.

jddumas

Just my $0.02, but MB USA is gaining profits from this sale and this dealership, so in my opinion they may share some responsibility to the consumer, and the "policing" of those bearing their name/logo. Since the dealership bears their logo, it seems that the dealer could be acting as an "agent" for MB USA, and therefore liable. If MB USA made a mistake and took money from a dealer to bear their logo, and they are not conducting themselves in a manner that is conducive with MB's way of doing business, they should cut their losses, take the sales rights from the dealer, and make things right with the consumer.
The ONLY way to determine the true liabilities is through legal research/opinons and ultimately a trial if necessary. From everything I have read this case has merit and I support the consumer in his efforts.
A law firm who is going up against a corporate giant, be it the dealership or the manufacturer, they will naturally have to file tons of motions and briefs and therefore will rack up a ton of bills. This is just the way SOME of corporate america works in an effort to wear down the little guy hoping they will throw in the towel and go away. If he does that, then big business wins again, and he will be yet another victim of wrongdoing by SOME of the corporate giants.
This is not intended to be advice or a legal opinion by any means, but rather an observation of what I have read thus far and my personal support for a consumer who is getting the runaround.
I just hope that whoever is ultimately deemed responsible for this wrongdoing is held accountable for their actions. I look forward to seeing the outcome.

gbrandon

Stay on track with the lawsuit. You will prevail. Dont believe ANYTHING the dealer tells you. They will lie to your face to cover their butt. I had a similiar situation with my girlfriend buying a Pathfinder. She was told it was 4 wheel drive. She gets home and a few days later realizes it isnt. Well, the dealer gave her the song and dance and when we started looking at her paperwork it showed the extended warranty info as 4 wheel drive. Only after I went into the dealer and told him it was either unwind the deal or lets go to litigation did he unwind the deal. (but not before he sat and lied for another 45 minutes) You have alot stronger case than she did.

IluvS500

I love that this guy isnt going to just stop at the dealer or MBUSA, but pursue MB Corporate, not many of us would go that far. We owe him a round of applause

DHH

I just got an '04 S55, but in my quest to find one I came across one in Florida that the dealer told me was built without a/c seats "forgot" was the term. It was about 11k less than the one I eventually bought, sounds like your car's twin in a four door. Good luck and I hope you get bot MBusa and the dealer - they are both at fault. MB should never have let the car come into inventory and the dealer just deceived you. DH