freestylebiker3

i decided to go to my friends benz race shop and pick up this nice front cooler here are some pics of the setup,

i have done a few performance and services upgrades on my engine...

fuel injector cleaning and calibration
new spark plugs
upgraded tune for the new cooler
got my wheels powder coated

i hope this saturday i can get my car dynoed

i have a extra set of catless downpipes for 2005 cl65 bi turbo ( excepting best offers )

NRL

Nice!
Which brand (cooler)?

Did they take the bumper piece off or did you do it?

freestylebiker3

got the cooler from benzworks and i have been doing all the work

cm60k

Great job Maan,, more cool = more HP & more PERFORMANCE.......

ZAYED,,

Das Geld 2

How did you clean and calibrate the fuel injectors?

biker349

how much was this upgrade?

freestylebiker3

i sent my injectors out to RC engineering in torrence california 4 injector were dripping and all the others were clogged the flow chart said i was at 370cc and i should of been at 420cc ( FYI we have 420cc injectors)

benz_addict

Nice work!!

driveability

Nice work !!!
Do you have the dimensions of the cooler ?
How is the car running ? Hope well !!
John

Sathinas

Why would you need a retune for a new heat exchanger? That doesn't make any sense.

freestylebiker3

your thinking about it the wrong way.. i do not need a tune becuase i installed a aftercooler... but since i installed a aftercooler i can run higher boost becuase of the more efficent cooling in the turbo system has now thanks to the aftercooler.. so the longer and colder the air is, the more boost/power i can have ( no heat soak )

freestylebiker3

thanks buddy the car runs great and i love the way the front cooler looks with the bumper installed, sorry i did not take any messurements but it does take over the whole opening in the bumper

02cl55amg

Good for you!
Would like to see pics of it with the bumper installed and where/how you remounted the oil cooler

driveability

I too would like to know about the oil cooler. Its a cramped area for sure.

I didn't see in the post concerning the original cooler, did you keep it in use and I would assume the best way to run the flow would be to hit the new cooler last before entering the two heat-exchangers. Thats at least my first impression. I bet it looks nice with the new aluminum behind the grill ! Turbo engines as a rule do make a lot of heat and heat soak being a part of the calculation this seems like it will be a system that would give ya more consistent air temps even while using the A/C.

Sathinas

I can understand your reasoning and I respect the way you're thinking, but do you really think a heat exchanger that's just a little more efficient than the stock one will yield you such amazingly cold air that you need a tune?

I only ask because I'm running meth injection on my 65, and even with the compressor maps moved way to the left, the ECU is dealing with the colder IAT's and denser air (more boost) just fine.

What were your IAT's before the swap? How about after?

freestylebiker3

i dont know what to say any more.. overall theres a reason why companys out there make aftermarket aftercoolers for those who seek performance or efficincy.. i feel my upgraded cooler, pump, and water wetter, produces a good amount of cooling compared to factory set up, so now i can adjust my boost acouple psi more... the longer it take to heat soak the better... and i feel my 3 step cooler upgrade was a good step in the right direction, the longer and more you stay cold the longer you can stay in boost and the more you can boost before you heatsoak and start detonating, retard timing, knock sensor, check engine light, and limp mode allot of things can happen if you heat soak... so for me i feel more comfertable having a safe cooling setup...i personaly would not run water/meth setup that you have.. i feel this 3 step cooling setup i did is allot safer and bulletproof... it would suck for the boost pressure switch to fail once you hit your pre-determind boost setting, if that meth doesnt travel to the engine at the right time will most likly hurt the engine some how

freestylebiker3

oil cooler is in the stock location i did not remove it.. i only moved it 1/2 inch back to clear the new after cooler

Sathinas

No argument there. My original question was, "do you really think an aftermarket heat exchanger warrants a tune?" I am not discounting the benefits of colder air and the elimination of heat soak.

Throwing out words like "heatsoak", "detonating", "retard timing", "knock sensor", etc, doesn't impress me.

Incidentally, our cars, while they do have knock sensors, they are not used as a primary anti-detonation device. The ion sensing system is the primary anti detonation system on these cars. Ion current sensing is much, much faster than a knock sensor.

Well, that's kind of an ignorant thing to say. If will most likely hurt my engine... somehow? Seriously?

You don't know what my Methanol setup is, you don't know what safeties the system has, nothing. You're just jumping to conclusions based on what you may think you know about methanol injection. But that's OK, you just showed (at least me) that you're kind of ignorant when it comes to stuff like methanol.

But I will school you on this mater, should you care to open your mind.

My system has 3 safeties:

a. Water Level
b. Flow Sensor
c. Boost waste gate dump signal

The water level... well, that should be self explanatory.

The flow sensor actually measures how much fluid is going through the system. If this falls below a set flowrate, the system shuts down and activates the waste gates, based on other parameters, such as current boost and injector duty cycle.

The "boost pressure switch" you speak of is the factory "switch" that you have as well. The system is plugged into the post throttle body MAP sensor - what you call a boost switch - (incidentally, we have TWO (as you call them) boost switches). The system is progressive, meaning that it will increase flow based on engine load and RPM. If anything else, I'm more protected, because if for some reason or other either of the factory sensor fails, the system will take notice and start dumping the wastegates.

And speaking of boost, did you know that my turbos are more efficient with this setup than are yours with your new heat exchanger? Why? Because I'm cooling the charge air at the turbo, not after the turbo. As such, it yields colder air temps BEFORE the air reaches the intercoolers on top of the engine - which of course, cool it down even more-. Another interesting result of this air being cooled at the turbo compressor wheel is that the whole turbo efficiency map moves to the left. This means the turbo can move more air through it for the same RPM as compared to no spray.

And when the system suddenly stops pumping for whatever reason, be it because it's running low on fluid, (which, with my tank, it doesn't happen quickly), be it because I suddenly back out of the accelerator... whatever, guess what happens? It sends a signal to the waste gate dump to start dumping excess pressure.

Again, I respect that you've got the mod bug. It's a good bug to have. If nothing else, I like you because you're a fellow gear head. But please, for the love of God, don't come onto a forum and act like you know everything about your car, let alone everything about 65 specific performance. Especially if you've just gotten it. For some of us, we've been tinkering with these engines (and cars) for a hell of a long time. And while we have a good idea of what works and what doesn't, I can't think of one person here who will tell you they know everything about 65 performance.

You never answered my question: What kind of IAT temperature drops did you see with the new "intercooler"? How much more boost are you seeing? Do you even have a way to log these parameters, or are you just assuming you're seeing better temperatures and boost? Being the smart kid I hope you are, you have heard of "pressure drop". How much more pressure drop does the new "intercooler" have over the factory one?

I can tell you that my system currently robs some 50 degrees out of the IAT as compared to no injection. This means I'm typically less than 10 degrees F over ambient temperature. Were I to add another 1mm injector at the throttle body, ambient and below ambient IAT temperatures are achievable. But as of right now, I can only achieve sub ambient temperatures when it's below 43 degrees.

Let me know when your intercooler achieves IAT's that are within 10 degrees of ambient temperatures. I am also seeing, on average, 5 PSI of boost increase. real boost, not hot air boost.

Either way, you're on the right track with your mods and you got my props for that. But get yourself a good data logger, a good baseline dyno run and read up on what works and what doesn't. Also, make sure your tuner(s) know these engines. There are a lot of people who can change a few numbers on an ignition/fuel delivery table... but few of them can actually TUNE an engine.

freestylebiker3

wow seems like i offended you on this matter... i had water meth on my race car 3 years ago and have installed plenty in my life time.. if you are so knowlegable in this feild then you should allready know the reasons behind my cooler and i should not need to explain my self... now the fact that you think your system is safer then my system which is factory based idea is interesting to me.... in the end i dont care what kit you have what data logger you have or what you have on your car.. i just made a thread about my install ... i tryed telling you twice the reason why i have the tune but for some reason my answer isnt up to par with you and your expertice in the world of performance... the fact that you got upset becuase i spoke the truth about factory cooling system being safer then a water/meth suprised me how much that effected you, i would never sit on the computer and write that huge respond like you did..i have better things to do then to argue with you or write such a extence responce.. just respect my mods and be happy you dont have to question everything i do, if you need specific answers then call the tuning company or the companys who make these after coolers, not me...

also i have been in the world of racing and performance professionally for the last 8-9 years
andi deal with 200k to multi million dollar race cars, i wouldnt be in that possion professionally if i was some ignorit kid like you might think, just becuase i didnt put my doctor hat on and write my answer in exquisite details to suit your liking doesnt mean i dont know what im talking about.. when i responded i responded in general point of view when i spoke of knock sensors that was just being general i wasnt going to sit here and write a crazy long responce, i made it short and sweet

Sathinas

Offended me? How do you figure you offended me? I'm not even phased by your mods... nor by your horrible spelling, but that's not important, I'm relatively smart enough to understand what you're trying to say with some of these every day words you can't seem to spell properly. So, where did I say I was offended?

Of course you have. And I was drinking buddies with the pope. From your previous comments about "my system" which you have absolutely no idea of what it is, you sure didn't come across as very knowledgeable in the field of Methanol injection.

I never asked you to "explain" yourself. I asked, based on your ORIGINAL thread, why you thought you needed a tune for something as simple as an aftermarket heat exchanger. I believe these are your words, no?:

So, what am I supposed to infer from those words, exactly, if not that you got a new tune FOR THE NEW COOLER? Hmmm?


Why would it be so interesting to you, after all, you've supposedly installed plenty of Methanol kits in your lifetime. Where did I lose you? Please tell me, so that I may take your hand and explain it to you.


Of course you don't care, because you have no clue. For someone who has had a "race car", you sure are technologically inept. I mean, seriously! What gear head nowadays doesn't have some sort of data logging, especially with the ease todays vehicles can be data logged. How will you know if your "upgraded tune" did you any good? How will you know if your heat exchanger did you a lot of good? How much boost did you gain? etc. etc. etc.

Again, I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape because I asked this question, especially after telling you that the ECU can EASILY handle the changes you've made. Now, had you said "I tuned the car because I wanted a flatter torque curve", or just simply "I wanted to tune it", then fine. But don't get your panties in a knot when someone asks you why you tuned the car just because you added a new heat exchanger, something that you didn't need to do (the tune, that is). But, in the end, it's your money, if you want to blow it on such things, hey, more power to you.

The fact that you are under the impression I am upset amuses me. Hell, you amuse me in general, but again, we're going off topic. I am also greatly amused at how you seemed to magically know what system I am running, and what safeties are on it... what? You didn't know what set-up I was running? Oh. Silly me.

Yes, perhaps one of those "better" things to do is learn how to spell common words... or, at the very least, use "Spell Check". While this isn't English 101, I do promise you people will take you more seriously when you can spell properly. As fas as why I have such an "extence response" (WTF is EXTENCE????), my extended response is simple. I explain my point(s), unlike you. I'm a stickler for explaining stuff.

I never said I didn't respect your mods. Get that through your thick head. I also don't question "everything" you do. Hell, frankly I could care less. But you DID post a thread on an Internet forum. Such is the nature of these threads that people converse in them. Much like we do. Sometimes, not everyone will suck on your left nut and congratulate you on your amazing upgrades. Some people are a little less touchy feely... again, not really a word.


No, I don't need any "specific" answers from the company that makes the units. I asked YOU these answers because... well, I figured that you actually did some research on the go fast item(s) you purchase... you know, like most gear heads would do. Most, would not just take a company's claim their product is so much better than a competitor's without doing some sort of research. Furthermore, most gear heads tend to be inquisitive and get hard proof on what kind of power the new mods may make/not make. But who knows, with you being in the racing industry, maybe your type just believes everything they are told about a performance product and as such don't bother with checking on any claims a manufacturer may make. Yes, that seems legit.

Right... and you drive a 25K dollar car. Get real, now you're just starting to sound like a desperate individual who is trying to justify his "experience". And which is it, 8 or 9 years? We're not talking decades or centuries, here! You should at least be able to pin it down to either 8 or 9 years. For example, I can tell you that I've been in my profession for 11 years, 8 months and 7 days.


No, of course you didn't, because you have no clue. Had you asked a real gear head those questions, he/she would have told you EXACTLY what numbers they were seeing. You know, like in the world of race cars, hard numbers are everything.

A crazy long "responce"? Let's see how long this "responce" would be.

Yes, such a long, lengthy "Responce". My God, I now see why you didn't bother with it. I mean, it about wiped me out, typing that "responce" example.

freestylebiker3

WOW you sir have way to much time on your hands, i am amazed on the amount of passion you have to prove your point over the Internet.. "gear head" really? when i was 22 years old and i had my race car with 600 bhp,i had full standalone with data loggers and i had the best of the best and i knew which exhaust had the least amount of restriction and which inter cooler was better and what my IAT is and etc etc etc, but bro i grew up from that phase i went along and sold my crappy money pit race car and bought a cl65 for the sole purpose so i can get in my nice car in the morning and go to work..i don't want to open the truck in the morning and check to see if my water/meth tank is getting low or have to refill it..i got this car to drive it and relax in it i am not going to install data loggers or go get my heat exchanger tested for restriction, i mean come on i don't know how much time you have on your hands which seems like allot but i am a busy guy i care about going to work and making money not trying to find out what after cooler i should buy and connecting my data logger on my cl65 , i trust my friend which has a Mercedes performance shop in orange county and van nuys , i don't have time anymore to hook this up or hook that up and try to find the best combo, i just want a nice daily driver with tasteful mods.. i am way to busy to have a battle with you, just have fun with your data logger and meth while trying to figuring out what cooler has the most restrictions.. and i will just enjoy driving my daily cl65 with my tune thank you very much for your interesting comments and have a great day



oh and i apologize to my fellow MBWORLD for my horrible spelling maybe we can start a whole fight/debate over that also

Sathinas

"Prove" my point? No. But I will explain my points. There is a big difference between explaining one self and "proving" something. But in your case, I think YOU have "proven" you're full of your "racing" self.

600 on the nose, eh? Right. Seems legit. And when I was 22 I had a jet and 18 girlfriends at one time. :roll eyes:

Who cares what you supposedly "had" when you were 22? Just because you supposedly had something, an expert in the field it does not make you. And for the record, no, I'm not an expert in auto performance. A race car with "600 bhp"... how amusing.

But not busy enough to keep ranting on to my replies... check. I have to give you credit, at leas you're using the space bar between words. And I don't know what a "truck" has to do with methanol, but OK. I am going to overlook that word and assume you meant "trunk". And apparently, you can't comprehend what you read. Which part of "Water level sensor" eludes you, again? Seriously, did you comprehend anything I replied to you?

A friend in the Mercedes performance business? What happened to your racing industry career? If I were in the racing industry, I'd have many a'friends in the Mercedes business. Alas, I'm not in the "racing industry". And yes, you better care about making money if you're just going to throw it at parts that claim performance, without checking any facts. By the way, I sell a gizmo that is guaranteed to increase WP by 60HP. It's a simple install on your fuel line. Wanna buy one? I'll discount it to only $399, just for you.

It's OK, I'm not too busy to make you look like the genius you are... not. I always take time out of my schedule for fellow members like yourself.

Oh, I will have an awesome day, now that I know you're full of excrement.


Yes, because an apology for your apparent lack of spelling skills will make everything better.

I would love to start a debate with you about your lack of spelling... though, I fear I would get a headache from trying to decipher some of the "words" you might come up with. Sort of like the typed version of Al Sharpton. The man has some interesting words that he has invented.

freestylebiker3

what every makes you happy,if i cant spell or you think I'm this or that, that's fine go ahead and prove your point it doesn't effect me just makes me laugh how you have so much passion to voice your opinion on the Internet. i guess me purchasing a after cooler was a bad move on my part, this whole issue is because i got a "second stage tune" on my car because of my ( 3 cooling system mods ) like i said i am way to busy to research and compare 10 after cooler and see which one works better my expertise is with the Ferrari racing team and i leave the specific Mercedes performance problem and let my friend deal with my car, if i have a question i call my friend and ask him simple as that.. if my friends needs help with any Ferrari's they call me, that how it works in my life i dedicated my training for the last 4-5 years only on Ferrari's so any questions regarding my Mercedes i just call my buddy and he recommended to calibrate my car to the new front cooler so if you need to talk to him please call him

TheRoadWarrior

lol... popcorn worthy

BenzoBoi

Good stuff! The guys @ Benzworks are AWESOME guys.