victoryroad

Dave
Have you changed the suspension and brakes of your CL 600? My understanding is that the CL55's suspension is tuned quite differently from that of the CL500 or CL600 and that the brakes are also different. I believe that the shocks and brakes are AMG and that the ABC mapping is firmer.

davepl

According to multiple sources at Mercedes, there is no difference between the AMG55 and the CL600 Sport suspensions.

According to the parts department, part numbers for the struts and ABC modules are also the exact same.

Personally I find it hard to believe, but that's what they tell me.

I really like the anti-roll and anti-dive features of the ABC, but personally I wish it was a better riding car. I like my M3 and I liked my old 750iL, but personally the CL ABC is the worst of both worlds (except the stabilization, which is great).

- Dave

awiner

Pick up the AMG brochure at your dealer (I have the 2003 edition). They are hard to find but most dealerships may have some. The AMG specific brochure only has the AMG models in it with a lot of great pictures and information.

If the suspensions are the same AMG/MBUSA have some big fat lies in that brochure.

They even go as far as saying not only is the ABC programmed with AMG specific programs but also ESP, etc. has specific AMG programming.

Some quotes say,

"Additional features of the 2003 CL55 AMG include Active Body Control with firmer suspension profiles"

"AMG-enhanced dual-circuit power-assisted 4-wheel disc brakes"

"AMG - recalibrated ESP"

"Active Body Control (ABC), a true active suspension system recalibrated by AMG, utilizes a coil spring and an absorbers. Rear: Rigid axle with longitudinal and transverse links, coil springs and electronically controlled hydraulic cylinder in series, plus a separate AMG gas-pressurized shock absorber at gas-pressurized shock absorbers."



It would also mean the AMG logo/part #'s on my front shocks (in the form of stickers) are a lie too. See pics at bottom.

Bottom line is someone doesn't know what they are talking about in MBUSA.








**** I found the 2004 AMG digital brocure on the interent. You can download it here: http://mbusa.designory.com/my04_amg/..._ebrochure.pdf

victoryroad

The CL55 also has different seats from the CL500 and CL600, that I find more supportive than those in my 02 CL500 Sport.
With regard to power, there are a number of recent posts that discuss upgrades that, with the somewhat lighter weight of the CL55 compared to the CL600, may provide a performance edge to the modified 55.
Regarding the ride, perhaps the non-sport mode would be more compliant. My 740i ride was very good, but I prefer that of my CL55 in sport mode. The choices in the CL ride modes are noticably different, especially the body lean in the non-sport mode. Cruising a highway is OK in non-sport mode, but inevitably I forget to go to sport mode before the exit ramp and it is just no fun that way.
I do not know if the shift programs differs in other CL's from the CL55, but the AMG Speed-Shift is very responsive for my driving. It is nice to have such choices.

awiner

The ABC Sport mode does not adjust the ride AT ALL !

All the sport mode button does is change the rate at which body roll/lean is compensated for.

In sport mode the roll/lean will be reduced.

When sport mode is off the body will be less riged and have a bit more roll/lean.

This is at least what I was able to decypher from the rather cryptic electronic service manual I was able to read.

victoryroad

Adam
As always, the authoritative source to whom I readily defer. At least it is not my imagination that the ride is different in non-sport mode, if only because the lean/roll is greater.
BTW, how does the lowering program that you installed affect the suspension, if at all, and is ground clearance a noticable problem?

Wiedermann

Mr Kubazzz
And I was always "bashing" anyone that came out of Poland... (kidding man... don't get pissed so quickly!..).. I have a very close friend of mine who is a movie director (she is highly educated in Poland with a masters in Cinematography and god know what othre PhDs on top) and she is actually back here in the USA, Hollywood area (actually she lives in Hollywood, Hollywood!) shooting some independent movie (what I call "shooting "bugs"" cause she likes the "out-door" life style, camping, and so on... also, she considers herself "Very old" at 31 yers old now... lol... or are we all???... LOL).. whelp.. though I have not been to Poland lately.. (last time I crossed your country was 1995 I think ), Monika (my friend, the movie director) always tells me "how poor" and how "run down" Poland is... --believe me I know that part of "run down", cause I've been there... -- blah, blah, blah... and she goes and goes and goes... lol... whelp?... you don't seem to be in the "run down" part of Poland then??... (and for what I see nor my friend Monika ).

Being over than 75% of the Worldwide sales of Mercedes Benz done RIGHT HERE in the USA --based on the stats released by M Benz themselves... so if you don't like the statistics go yell at them some... LOL --, for the USA in particular... the amount of sales allows M Benz to have a "lower" price, also, as you mentioned, here in the USA there are wayyy too many other options as far as "cars" is concerned... here people change cars as they change shoes... (look at the postings... the same people get a car and in less than 24 months they are changing them again... I "used" to do that too!... lol...)... also, to appeal to the US consumer market, M Benz was and IS willing to take a "loss" "in theory" only by reducing the price since they make up in the quantity they sell in the USA alone.
Being from over there Vienna, Austria and my family is all there, I am the only one that decided to come back to the US --I lived in the USA when I was little, went back with the fam to Europe, didn't like it, came back here (USA) for college, done with that and now just live here, blah, blah, blah-- and whelp??? I only go there to visit and freeze my a** off during winter time (Christmas)... which every year, as I am sitting freezing my buns off, I tell myself... "this is the last time I will be here".. and yet??? I am back the following year.. well... as you said... you have to have more money in Europe to own a car... and even more to have a good car than in the USA.. that is true .. however, ALL my neighbors in Austria have all kinds of M Benz ... is like here in the California where I live... each of my neighbors have mostly in within other cars which normally are big trucks 4x4 what we call "SUV" Sport Utility Vehicle.. and I mean BIG... not your European "big"... LOL this is big A** USA huge Hummers, Navigators.. huge trucks... well... besides those, at least one Benz, one Porsche... hmmm don't ask me why!... (lol.. I am done with Porsches myself and will let those with the "urge" to own one to just go right ahead! and get them ).. so from my point of view.. my neighbors in either side of the Atlantic pond have the same "taste" for cars, just in the USA they have in ADDITION, the SUVs, boats, RV (Recreational Vehicles) sometimes all parked in front of their houses!!!!... In Germany you CAN NOT do that.. have those big A** things parked in front of your house... you can't even car wash you car... its illegal!!!... you have to take your car to the "car wash" ... (environmental laws... though I don't think is spread in the whole country.. just main cities )

Your difference in price Europe vs USA is mainly due to the amount of cars sold here vs what is sold in Europe.. so lower price allows the Brand to "make up" in quantity... my cars that I bring to the USA, I know I signed lots and lots of papers where I recognize I would not ship the car right back or sold the car out of the USA for a period of time ... that I am sure other "owners" will know about...

Like you said.. we (USA people) live in a beautiful country... and I am NOT complaining about that!!...

MR ro0zy:
Lamborghini is owned now by BMW... you probably knew that... .. and BMW has been under "aggressive" negotiation to be bought by big USA giant GM... lol... ... (that was "just" an FYI... )
Listen to what Mr awiner said cause there is truth in it...

Cheers!

Wiedermann

awiner

The ride is just as good as it ever was in stock form. ABC is a wonderful thing !

Basically the suspension is lowered approx 1" (0.9").

With my 19" wheels, ground clearance at the lowest setting is about the same as stock.

The only noticeable difference is that there is little gap in the fender between the tires. About 1.5 fingers (un-scientific) or about 7/8" (scientific).

No rubbing problems at all, however, I haven't tried hitting a large dip at high speeds and don't intend to. :-)

The dash mounted switch still raises the suspension if need be a good amount. Probably as much as stock from what I remember.

CynCarvin32

Hey Dave,

I just read your post about the ABC system and I find my self wondering which car you drove that gave you such a negative impression of the system. I have had an 2001 S55 and now have an SL55 and the ABC systems on both cars was the best aspect of each vehicle. The SL55 may be quick as heck (my E55 is faster though..) but the way it rides and drives puts this car in a class by it self. Other cars may be more nimble or ride better but I have never driven a 4400 lb car that could do what the SL55 does with its ABC system. The ride in the SL55 is two steps better than the 2001 S55 I had and I think this is part of the new ABC II used is the 2003-2004 S/SL/CL55's (it could also be the difference beaten the W220 chassis and the R230 chassis). The SL has such a great ride I find my self scratching my head as to where the E55 fits into the equation. The SL is just about as fast but it drives far better and has a substantially smoother ride than the E55. One would think AMG/MB would make the E55 ride better than a sports car but hey I am not complaining for I tritely love the SL55.

Ride height adjustments on the ABC equipped cars do not change the ride quality because the computer still has the same rebound and compression settings but at a different ride height. The increase in handling ability when lowering the car is virtually nil but the car does look far better. I think the fact that the car drives no better when lowered shows that the suspension does not become any stiffer than stock after a lowering chip is installed and this is one of the wonderful points about the ABC system.

Not many cars have 98.6% of the body roll dialed out with the push of a button and even fewer can have a ride which gets NO firmer when the car is in sport mode. The system does not make the spring rates stiffer but instead it keeps body motions in check by not letting the car roll, dive our wallow over bumps. Cars with AirMatic do have a serious degradation in ride quality when putting the car in "sport 2 setting" for this is effectively an increase in the spring rate and the shock rebound and compression valving. The system is not active like in an ABC car so the only way to control body motion is to make the suspension settings stiffer and this makes the ride fairly rough. The E55 on sport II has what most call a poor ride. It truly pounds into pot holes and sometimes feel like it is skipping across bumps in a lateral motion. The SL (in Sport mode) simply glides over even the worse mid corner bumps that would send lesser cars rebounding into the ditch. The ABC system only makes chages to the compression and rebound settings when the computer senses a force which is causing the car to roll, dive, squat or wallow. For the most part ABC keeps the body on an even keel and does not make any part of the ride harsh.

As for the parts for the shocks being the same, I will have to go with Adam on this one. The shocks and computer control modules for every AirMatic and ABC equipped AMG is completely different than the normal non AMG versions. The ecu is set for quicker control of rebound and compression settings and it keeps body roll at an even lower % than the non amg versions. I did some things in the S55 that NO 4200 lb. 4 door luxury tank should do. I think the best way to feel the difference would be to drive an SL/CL500 and then to hop into the CL/SL55 and see how the suspension is only slightly stiffer but it has a totally different and much more sporty feeling when compared to the stock car. I would say the ride difference between an SL/CL500 and the SL/CL 55 is so slight that most would never even know the difference. The best part how this equation is that the improvement in handling dynamics and the level of "fun to drive" is much higher in the AMG version. AMG offers sport versions of their own AMG models in europe and these versions have stiffer suspension than the US AMG cars. In order to change the handling dynamic, AMG does not just change the ECU but instead they change the ECU and the shocks for the shocks are completely different when set to be stiffer. Given that the sport and the normal AMG settings in europe require different shocks and parts, it is safe to assume that the non amg and the AMG us spec cars have totally different shocks and suspension ECU's.

davepl

It's all conjecture until someone gives me the two different part number sets, which no one can do, and which Mercedes claims do not exist.

I drive a CL600, and I do not like the ride, and the CL55 and S55 felt the same to me. The car is not able to effectively dampen axle movement over pavement irregularities, and transmits road items like expansion joints with unneeded harshness.

This car would be a -lot- better with electronic damping control. Even the $35,000 Corvette has that, and ABC can't do it.

- Dave

CynCarvin32

First off Dave, I ask if you have driven a vette with the magnetic suspension system? I will say that while impressive it is far from the best suspension for that car. It does do a fine job of controlling axle movements but the non magnetic suspension in the Z71 (pack) makes the car drive better than the electronic system. The Z-06 suspension runs circles around both . While I am not a Vette fan, most magazines said the 50th anniversary edition Vette was not as well set and balanced as the others and felt that it left something to be desired.

I have seen some times where the suspension may feel stiff over a given bump but I have yet to upset the car when it mattered (during aggressive driving). I would gladly take a suspension that once in a while transmitted a vibration through the chassis to my bum than one that could not control the body during a decreasing radius off camber corner with an unexpected dip right when the road tightens. I just went of for a quick frozen yogurt run and I intentionally took the fun way home to help formulate my response about the ABC system. I can say that I have had a slew of MB’s in the past and not one even can come close to the dynamic set forth by this car (have had all but a W209 I think – but I should try that out too!). The ABC system has changed since 2000 when it first came to market and the ride quality of the second generation is much improved being that the SL rides 100% better than my former S55. The suspension on an ABC car is capable of taking the large speed humps (installed to be driven over at 25 mph) at twice that speed without even starting to stress the chassis or suspension. The car never has an ounce of rebound or bobble after a dip and often the car is so controlled my less than perfect back is shocked by how firmly the suspension will jump back from a dip and prevent the car from having even the slightest bit of rebound after the first oscillation.

There was a section of road today which as a series of “S” turns and right before the last kink to the left, there is a large bump where most cars bottom out and then pogo off the ground right as the car needs to begin its transition into the corner. The SL55 simply takes the dip, jumps back to an even keel, and then darts into the corner as if nothing had happened. The E55 or any normal suspension system (no matter how well set) would have a bit of rebound following the dip for the car would bobble right when you want to change direction. I have driven this road in every car I own and the closest I could see to something being better is in a C32 with 10k in suspension and brake upgrades (stock motor and driveline). But this C32 would feel so extremely stiff that the car might actually catch air while the ABC car would just come right back to an even playing field with no questions asked.

I think we are discussing different items here. You are talking about small little road imperfections causing a jittery ride while I am praising the systems ability to ride extremely well and still allow the 4400 lb car to drive like something much lighter. In a car with normal shocks, there is a trade off between slow and quick frequency shock valving settings for a shock set to control quick body movements often can not accurately take dip and crests very well (and the opposite applies as well). Quality racing shocks and separate slow and quick frequency rebound and compression adjustments for this allows for the ideal set-up. ABC takes these variables and lets the computer decide what is best for the given situation.

I will say I bet I drive my vehicles a bit harder than most AMG (or V12) owners and demand a difference style of chassis setting. Maybe this is where the disagremnt lies on this topic for most V12 and AMG drivers do not go out of their way to take a spirited drive on their way home. I often do not care about a bumpy ride (I think an EVO VIII rides well!) but I expect the car to drive well. The SL55 rides better than I could ever ask and it drives in a manner than few cars can achieve.

I am extremely picky with suspension settings and I have created a reputation for my self as a chassis freak on the board. Many people vehemently dislike me for I have no trouble saying that a AMG car drives poorly (far worse than its competition) but the SL55 is a totally different animal. It leaves nothing but a great feeling in my body after a quick drive and it is an ideal trade off commuter and weekend driving machine. Being that the SL55 weighs 180 lb more than my E55 I can not blame its less than perfect chassis settings and nature on the weight. It lies somewhere in the suspension it self. ABC is what the E55 needs for it makes the CL, S, and SL into amazing vehicles. I can only wish MB had kept ABC for it new generation S and CL’s but cost cutting has once again reared its ugly head. AirMatic costs 1/2 that of ABC to produce so its only logical to watch ABC die!

My hat is off to AMG and MB on this one!

victoryroad

I have not noticed any discomfort driving over expansion joints, but obviously such an observeration is subjective. I can say emphatically that the suspension keeps the wheels/tires planted when cornering, especially on a rough surface. To me, this is where the suspension of the CL55 shines, as it makes such cornering at a brisk pace quite easy.

awiner

I went ahead and split this thread from the CL65 MSRP since we started steering that thread off track.

Last night I got a PM from CynCrvn32. He knows someone well in the parts area of his dealership and will attempt to determine if there are indeed different part #'s between AMG and non AMG suspension components for us.

davepl

Since the problem I complain about is either inadequate damping or lack of chassis stiffness, it'd be interesting if the 55 really does have different struts... might be a way to improve the 600.

Of course they could just be different spring rates and the same lazy damping. I wish I had access to a 55 to drive and compare!

- Dave

Kar don

I would have to agree with cyncarvin on this one. The only Mercedes I have driven with the ABC system for an extended period is the SL500 sport. I was really impressed by the system! It rode very nicely over the terrible boston roads and on the 18 inch AMG wheels with very short sidewalls! My lexus had similar sidewall height and every bump would upset the balance of the car... but with the SL no bump would upset its stride! It was truely a cool feeling when I drove it into a sharp corner and felt the car react and bump up opposite side of the car relative to the direction of the turn. ABC is def one of the coolest features of the vehicle!

Bilal

CynCarvin32, your're insight and experiences are very informative and good to read for those of use not able to experience these truly magnificent machines...


hats off

awiner

Ok, I have the different part #'s now for AMG and NON AMG CL suspensions. I will post later tonight when I get home and can fire up my EPC (Electronic Parts Catalog).

awiner

According to what I have been able to get out of this program so far, AMG models come with a "AMG Nurburgring Sports Suspension". In Germany, CL500 and CL600(With M275 Engine) vehicles can actually have this same suspension fitted at the AMG factory in Affalterbach.

The EPC shows this option (A 215 320 00 30) as standard on the AMG CL55 and as a AMG Factory fitted option on the CL500 and CL600 (With M275 Engine).

The description says, "Spring Struts at FA/RA, ABC suspension"


I am getting the front end to the EPC soon so I will be able to see a exploded diagram of all the parts and indivudual part #'s that are assigned to each.

DoctorV8

I disagree.

I recently traded in a Z06 for a 2004 Corvette with magnetic selective ride. The Z06 may be better on a road course, but in the real world, I am able to drive the magneride car more quickly, as it is far better at maintaining grip over irregular surfaces. It is also a MUCH better highway cruiser than either the Z51 or Z06.

Get rid of the runflat tires and add bigger swaybars, and the magnetic ride car offers the best of both worlds. It is astounding for a 3200 lb sports car to ride nearly as well as my M5, or a CL55, for that matter.

amd1963

Hi - my left front strut is getting replaced due to movement, it went for a wheel alignment and it could not be done due to this movement. I did not see the movement spoken of but initially my indy thought it was a matter of a part replacement; the rubber mount at the top of the strut. A parts person was rung and informed that a separate part cannot be obtained but the whole strut has to purchased. This is being done and the part will take 10 days to get here. So I take it this is not a mere valve issue but a strut replacement issue. Anyone hold a different opinion? Second issue the parts guy was informed that it is a CL55 - VIN and number plate given. Now I am not getting a strut made by MB (over $4000 New Zealand) but an equivalent part from the USA (cost $3000 New Zealand). I take it this will have the same characteristics as a original. I am only replacing the one strut at the moment or is it absolutely necessary that I replace both? Please if anyone can anyone help. Cheers Aaron.

amd1963

Also please note that the left hand front strut is not leaking any fluid. None of the struts are leaking fluid. There is no warning coming on dash and the ride height is all fine when driving and when parked. Another thing is the fluid level in my power steering box was low (not empty or below the low reading) my ABC fluid level was fine (replaced tandem pump August 2013) and there does seem to be some fluid leakage under car (not dripping) just on pan. I will get indy to fix it any hints on what to look out for. I would be grateful for any help.