VIPclk320

Thank you for the pointers but i ahve taken all that into consideration. The bolt sits solid on the bar and on the car the pictures that i posted are not the final install i just put them up because people kept asking to see them. the bolts are 7/16" by 3" and there is no possible way for them to give in under the load they are high grade rated and can handle about the 20 times the load they are getting from the car.
2. the bolt is not loose inside the tower sspacer they actually tread inside the spacer and sit without a movement other than that it would be worthless. in the pictures they are not mounted to the car they are just sitting there thats why you see the slope. after install they sit flushed on the mounting areas. as for the centering 3/4 inch makes no difference. the reason why they use the shock towers is because they have bolts on them so they make ideal mounting points for the bar but in these cars there is no such option because they are struts.
ultimate goal for a strut bar is for the counter shift from the opposite side to diffuse the shift from the other side and thats exactly what this bar does.
the bolt is threaded inside the spacer so they have no movement at all.
I see the points that you are making but honestly if you know anything about suspension you would know that a round bar transfers and handles load better than a straight bar because a straight flat bar can bend under load but round bar (LAWS OF PHYSICS) transfer load smoother(water pipe, gas pipes, support beams for high rises anything that transfers a force or energy) also the bend after the fire wall don't help the integrity of the bar on the Weicher system. I have been building auto cross cars for 10 years and am very knowledgable about suspension and have made many custom suspension one off pieces. I dont make anything for looks just straight function. plus the weicher one uses bolts that are about 15 times smaller than mine and are tac welded to the car that i can snap with a wire cutter and thats why i din't use those as mounting points. also i wanted it to be user friendly. I would honestly do some reaserach before starting to compare and have some bases for the comaprisson. weather you are saying mine is better or the weicher one it doesn't matter just make sure in the future ask for pictures of the details and then make statements.
and just for the record i'm not ofended or upset by any means about the critisim.

Ghostrider

Hary, I see what you are saying but disagree with you about the bar structure and shape. The German bar is bent to clear the airbox, nothing more.

Ghostrider

You got me, cause I got you!!! Shoot me your address when you set a chance.

Williams707

Is it there yet!!!

Ghost you did not hit me back, I'm looking at early FEB. Also I've been getting emails talking about Chinese discount stores every few months. Are you having this problem? Is this spam? Hit me up by email or pm.

Ghostrider

I thought I did! Which one did I not answer? That timeframe works for me and hopefully we can get more in the group.

Yeah I think I got my email worked out!!!

VIPclk320

Paul jay thank you for the confidence in me .
here is the pictures of how the mounting bracket is for the people that don't ask for details before making judgments. as you see the bolt has absolutly no movement waht so ever and it ties to the riser spacer and then a washer and then through the hole and one more washer underneath the fender and a LOCK TIE KNOT not regular knot that locks it in place, i don't even think i spelled knot right lol. the bolt that connects the bracket to the body has absolutly no play. and yes pauljay you are absolutly correct every car has to have a certain level of flex if not your motor mounts and your struts will pop out of your car and be in the middle of the road.

Pauljay

Big respect Ash!

Alright people, you heard the man. Great explanation.
Put your orders in and let Ash get back to work so I can get MINE!!

Hary Gahtoe

Like I said, I get your ideas. But is this as strong as it could be with minor changes?
Do you have nuts all the way up the bolt inside the spacer or are you just relying on the bar mount whole(/bolt shaft) tolerance and just the nut on the bottom of the spacer(meaning a large gap at the top of the spacer/bolt shaft underneath the bar mount )?
Am I right to presume the spacer isn't solid or whole? It looks like an open gap like a piece of flat stock rolled into a circle. Is it?
Talking flex, not saying only a single bolt would transfer large amounts of stress and eventually warpage or stress crack the body but only time and abuse will be the judge. Be interested to see responses 1 yr in.

VIPclk320

None of your points are correct brither, first of all you keep refering to one bolt well here it is (the struts, ball joints, most suspension pieces use one bolt to tie down so clearly the factory thinks that is sufficent and i stick to knowledge over yours any time of the day. second the spacer is made out of mandrel bent solid steel so yes it is as strong as it can get. third the gap in the spacer has a reason behind it's design, in case of a hitting a huge pothole or curb or a massive movement in the body flex those gaps help the strut bar loosen up so you don't loose your whole front suspension other wise if you hit a curb or anything that creates massive body flex(not regular body flex from taking corners and regular and track driving more like hiting a open trench or massive pot hole) your front suspension will snap off of your car, you have to remember you aren't driving a train on rails we deal with all kinds of pot holes, and damaged streets and bumps and objects on the road and if the suspension is super stiff you will loose your suspension and those gaps are a safty future. so once again I have answered all your concerns with logis and facts, now do me a favore and stop hating and comparing weicher which mounts into two tiny screws on each side and keep telling me that that one is stronger. one bolt that is 7/16" X 3" high grade steel with a lock knot will always be stronger than two boltes that are about 3/16" X 1/2" and are tac welded to the body, those bolts that weicher uses for mounting can be snaped off with a wire cutter my bolts can only be cut with a plasma cutter. also i see your point about the mounting points cracking off but also remember your struts are also mounted on one point so those parts are very strong and if they crack it means that there was an excessive amount of impact to the car in which case you have way more problems than a a cracked mounting points such as messedup suspension and again those gaps in the spacers is designed to avoid that, and in case of excessive impact even the weicher one would do the same to it's mounting points and probably worste. Thank you very much for your critisim because it allowed me to show my design reasons based on facts and laws of physics.

Alexbenz

not to hate on you but your points make no sense what so ever....vipclk320 already pointed all the points out to you and your still stuck on the nut...i have seem the bar upclose and felt the difference in ride quality as well...And compared to the other product offered on the market( price ,design and install is far superior)....hopefully other members will chime in once they seem the results when they install it.

VIPclk320

lol, thanks brother you got two cool toys coming your ways, and i includede all the extra parts that we talked about in the first package.

Hary Gahtoe

I call this merely an unbiased objective point of view. You have some issues with overall strength capabilities. Its just not something up to the caliber of quality and longevity associated with a MB. If you think its all that, take it to somebody who custom fabricates pro(unbiased; meaning not your friends) ask their opinion.

VIPclk320

I AM A PERSON THAT CUSTOM FABRICATES. I respectfully don't respect your opinion or your on probation status. so I will leave it at that.

maxwerks

<< Merely an objective point of view .. >>>???.... you know very well your comment is far from " objective " ...I dont understand this ... who are you ? what qualifications you have? what other parts did you fabricate? What experience do you have in engineering or fabrication ? Ordinarily most reasonable members would actually welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism , and a debate is in fact a healthy thing to have.. but in your case I see nothing except your opinion with no other qualifications to state such opinion or make such judgment.. in fact all I see is a member on Probation ....( not exactly a credit to your background !!! ) .. instead of your " thrown opinions " why dont spend your time showing the rest of us mortals how much better what you fabricated is !!!

Hary Gahtoe

[QUOTE=VIPclk320;3841274]I AM A PERSON THAT CUSTOM FABRICATES. I respectfully don't respect your opinion or your on probation status. so I will leave it at that.[/QUOTE

I'm 55yrs old. I've worked for Kenworth in the frame Dept. I have built a 26 Street Rod from ground up, 2 off road Jeeps, raced a production 750 Honda and am currently involved in a MX80 drift car with a 1JZ twin turbo. I've done more so called fabbing than you could imagine. I have real world street creds and when I see work that isn't as good as it could be I say so.

P.S. Since you mentioned it, probation was 3yrs ago.
Respect is something I don't take lightly. You don't. Fair enough.
My rep states probation. Its because I dared to highlight questionable data that had no UNBIASED 3rd party proof and it was about the moderators shop. Give and take of honest criticism. I thought that was how forums worked. I was wrong.

Hary Gahtoe

I'm not asking your permission Max. You can blindly swallow anything you want. Thats your choice. I happen to have a background allowing me to express what I see.

FastDonzi

YO. lets not get our panties in a bunch here girls. i dont think hary has been out of line or rude about any his comments. and i Do think that his statements are correct. now, i bought one of the rear bars,and its a good piece but the front one needs to mounted directly to the strut tower. now, if my friend tony was building this piece and i saw that design i would tell him the same thing.i don't know Ash, or his qualifications,but i think this bar would be more functional if it was mounted on the strut tower directly.why not cut the bar a few inch before the mounting point and weld the piece on an angel so the black bracket is sitting on the strut tower. charge the cost of the extra time of fabricating it right . PS, just because this guy is on probation on some online forum doesn't mean s**t.he could be some kind of wiz, you never know who u r talking to. I'm sure some of us on here are on probation for real!! enjoy ur whips my friends.and stop whining.

VIPclk320

Thank you for your comments regarding the rear bar. the rear bar is a strut tie bar and the front is a strut bar the difference is that all strut bars mount to the body not the strut, they just use the bolts that are used to tie the struts or shocks to the body to mount in most cases 3 small bolts. in our case that is not possible because we have a single mount point strut. i initially designed it to mount to the strut towers and the reason why i decided against it is because the struts come out at a sharper angle in the front than the back and because of that i have to make a piece that has a 45 degree angle in the middle of it in order to come up straight in order for the bar to be mounted to it and that would have made my life much easier but and this is a very important but because of the angle of the strut towers in the front, under load it can snap the strut bolt that is used to mount it to the car and you will be in an ocean of trouble such as your suspension will detach from the car and drop in the middle of the road. as for qualifications I'm not doubting his qualifications i'm mentioning mine and i have answered all his questions and addressed all his points with logic and laws of physics now if thats not a proper way of addressing concerns then i don't know what is. I never said this bar is perfect or it will make your car run like it's on tracks but it will improve your ride and cornering quality and i have a wintess that has been in the car and seen and felt the before and after. now if everyone is saying that weicher is better and i should mount mine to the strut tower well here is the deal Weicher doesn't mount to the strut tower in the front or rear they mount to the body, i'm the one thatdesigned the strut tie not weicher and belive me it was a great idea for the rear as you can tell but in the front it's not a good idea, i would never sit here and argue against my own design(strut mount) but for the front is just not propper. as for qualifications I'm not even in the car industry i'm an asset manager but cars have always been my hobby and have built many of them mainly nissans all the way fron RPS13s to S14 and R32 skyline with array of engines such as RB25DET and SR22DETs and suspensions to go with it and i was one of the first few to start canyon drifting back 1998 before the whole hype so belive me I have done it professionaly and now it's just a hobby. even after all that i still welcome constructive critisim openly because i always like to improve my self but once i address all points with logic and i still get negative feed back then thas just straight hating and i can't tolerate that.
At the end of the day this is what it comes down to, i fabricated a product and the friends that like it will purchase it and enjoy it and the friends that don't like it won't, there is no gun pointed to anyones head forcing them to buy it and on top of all that it is a limited quantity item if i was mass producing and slanging them then that was a whole different story. I make these for my own car and because some friends kept asking me about them i made some more to sell them and offer others to enjoy it to but situations like these makes people not want to share their mods and help each other out. now i'm not saying that suspended status lowers credibility but it deffinatly doesn't add to it.

FastDonzi

trust me man no hating going on here with me.i don't think hary is hating on you either bro.i don't know him, but it doesn't sound like it. i commend you for making parts for you and other enthusiasts like myself.thats great,we are all on these forums because we all love cars.we should all try to help and get involved. as you can see i bought your stuff. but when you make something to sell you have to expect some kind of feedback. and sometimes it's not always the best, just the nature of the beast. i respect you and your work man.and if i lived close to you i would be there checking stuff out. keep it up.

Williams707

What Harry needs to do is not prove his experience but prove his design theory with engineering facts or physics.

This is why people SEE what he is saying

but

Not LISTENING to what he is saying.

Alexbenz

again why does it need to be bolted to the strut tower??

VIPclk320

Oh no man this wasn't aimed at you at all, i was thanking you for your comments about the rear bar. no worries bro. Maybe hating is not the right choice of words but more like judging without facts and details, but i disclosed all the design details and i'm over the arguments i really don't see a point in it anymore because now it just sounds like a school yard argument(without a point), I have sold functional products and members have seen the work of my designs so that should speak for itself. Now back to the bars, there are still 13 available. Fastdonzi I'm doing a test fit on a w209 this weekend i let you know how it works out.

VIPclk320

Church. lol

whkento

I'm glad things are cooling off a bit. I think we should be thanking Mr. Gahtoe for helping VIP clarify his design/intentions. Discussions like this are what make these forums a great thing.

I've already ordered mine and will be glad to provide feedback after street testing. Maybe someday I can go to a track ,too. FWIW, my feedback may be quite valuable since I have NO other mods on my car.

Have a great day, everyone.

Alexbenz

lol......i must say the people that chimed in on here are satisfied customers that have dealt with ash...he also doesn't just throw something together....he puts hours of research and testing into it and is mainly helping out the members on here to have a limited product that requires less work to install and cheaper to get ahold of....

i've had some of his products on my benz back in the day and he's doing some customs projects for my bimmer currently...

just cause your 55 and have worked on some stuff here and there doesn't make you an expert when you haven't seen the product and he has explained everything to you AND all your fixated on is the nut that i have seen from my own eyes doesn't move.