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CLK convertible top problem solving: common electrical and hydraulic system failures

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CLK convertible top problem solving: common electrical and hydraulic system failures

 
Old 01-04-2014, 12:11 PM
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Will go through that one and check wiring. Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:09 PM
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details on the switch and how you fixed it

Originally Posted by serlock View Post
It was the sensor which is on a RIGHT BOW HINGE. it was not working properly. I fixed it and roof works flawlessly.
Serlock,

I am glad that your problem is mostly solved by now, thanks to your diligence and that of folks spending a lot of time on detailed responses. That's awesome!

For the benefit of future readers, would you please identify which exact switch was the problem so far? A photo of the switch and its location would be helpful, and a description of how you fixed it. This would help many others who might run into the same problem and come across this thread while searching the forum or googling the subject. Thanks in advance!

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Old 01-05-2014, 03:32 PM
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Ok, So here is the photo:



I took it apart and saw it was not triggering the switch inside because the plastic was little bit of track. I soldered it, put it back. And thats pretty much it. Make sure when you put it back, try with a finger to switch it and hear it click.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:57 PM
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Following the last problem of red switch staying red while driving, i made a conclusion its the soft top locked switch on top of the windshield problem, i have cut the wire 10 cm before the switch and soldered them - still same result, so the reason lies somewhere further down the line:



So here is the diagram showing on which pin in the control module N52 is the mentioned switch wire, its number 15:

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Old 01-14-2014, 06:22 PM
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Still Problems with roof

Hi all, I am still having problems with my roof.

The roof works perfectly now it goes opens and closes, but when closed it does not close the windows in that once the roof is locked to the windscreen the windows do not go up and the roof switch starts blinking and when put into gear and start to move a warning bell rings for about 5-10sec this is very annoying as it happens all the time.
If you have read my prior posts you will see I have replaced the bow lock and the limit switch 8415, this got the top working properly (except for the windows and warning bell) now I have this problem any info would greatly help I do not want to take it to the dealer as they charged me $330.00 for diagnosis last time.
Also with the roof fully closed the boot will not open unless I use the key

Regards Mark

Last edited by Greenman; 01-14-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
Hi all, I am still having problems with my roof.

The roof works perfectly now it goes opens and closes, but when closed it does not close the windows in that once the roof is locked to the windscreen the windows do not go up and the roof switch starts blinking and when put into gear and start to move a warning bell rings for about 5-10sec this is very annoying as it happens all the time.
If you have read my prior posts you will see I have replaced the bow lock and the limit switch 8415, this got the top working properly (except for the windows and warning bell) now I have this problem any info would greatly help I do not want to take it to the dealer as they charged me $330.00 for diagnosis last time.
Also with the roof fully closed the boot will not open unless I use the key

Regards Mark
Mark,

The most likely candidate for the red light and chime is the rear bow lock or the case cover lock not signalling that it is closed. The rear bow lock is p/n 1247700426, and the case cover lock (aka tonneau cover lock) is p/n 2087500984 (in model year 2001 and younger). The rear bow lock not being locked will not allow you to open the trunk (boot) remotely. I don't know if the case cover lock giving the wrong signal would allow the trunk to be opened or not, but the rear bow (the section with the window in it) would not be closing if the case cover lock didn't signal that it was closed already. Thus, the culprit is most likely the signal from the rear bow lock.

Both locks are supposed to be closed when the top is up. Their micro switches give an electrically closed signal when the locks are closed. (The case cover lock p/n 1247500684 in earlier models has two micro switches - one creating a closed circuit when the lock is open, and one creating a closed circuit when the lock is closed.) I would first check the connector on the rear bow lock, follow the wires from the rear bow lock towards the controller and look for disconnects or cut or frayed wires, and check if there is a problem with the micro switch on the rear bow lock.

Details on micro switch adjustment, if needed (ignore the words "front lock" - the pictures are from an R129 front lock, which is almost identical to the CLK rear bow lock):

1) Rear bow lock open: the micro switch gets triggered (and creates an OPEN circuit)


2) When you manually close the rear bow lock all the way, the switch is released and creates a CLOSED circuit. Ignore the comment about locking without the top entering the lock - this is needed on R129 SLs only for inspection of the switch)


3) Rear bow lock in closed position, with the top pulling up on it and the wrench removed:


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Old 01-15-2014, 10:00 AM
  #57  
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Im 90% sure its the case cover switch, which is here:


because, its the only switch that if its not working - the roof will work fine. I have the same problem. The switch beeps for 5 seconds when starting to drive. I have a N84(Soft top ECU) pin out diagram, and will track the wires and check, cause it did not help when i removed sunshade and acceses that switch and engaged it manually also tried to cut wires and put them together. So will update once checked that out.

Last edited by serlock; 01-15-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Top Hydraulics View Post
Mark,

The most likely candidate for the red light and chime is the rear bow lock or the case cover lock not signalling that it is closed. The rear bow lock is p/n 1247700426, and the case cover lock (aka tonneau cover lock) is p/n 2087500984 (in model year 2001 and younger). The rear bow lock not being locked will not allow you to open the trunk (boot) remotely. I don't know if the case cover lock giving the wrong signal would allow the trunk to be opened or not, but the rear bow (the section with the window in it) would not be closing if the case cover lock didn't signal that it was closed already. Thus, the culprit is most likely the signal from the rear bow lock.

Both locks are supposed to be closed when the top is up. Their micro switches give an electrically closed signal when the locks are closed. (The case cover lock p/n 1247500684 in earlier models has two micro switches - one creating a closed circuit when the lock is open, and one creating a closed circuit when the lock is closed.) I would first check the connector on the rear bow lock, follow the wires from the rear bow lock towards the controller and look for disconnects or cut or frayed wires, and check if there is a problem with the micro switch on the rear bow lock.

Details on micro switch adjustment, if needed (ignore the words "front lock" - the pictures are from an R129 front lock, which is almost identical to the CLK rear bow lock):

1) Rear bow lock open: the micro switch gets triggered (and creates an OPEN circuit)


2) When you manually close the rear bow lock all the way, the switch is released and creates a CLOSED circuit. Ignore the comment about locking without the top entering the lock - this is needed on R129 SLs only for inspection of the switch)


3) Rear bow lock in closed position, with the top pulling up on it and the wrench removed:


Klaus
Hi Klaus,
I have removed the interior lining of the bow cover to get access to rear bow lock.
The bow lock micro switch seems to be in the open position (photo 1)when the bow cover is open and closed is this correct? is it possible to bend the contact arm or is the micro switch is faulty and needs replacing.
Also when the top is fully retracted I do not get the red switch flashing and the warning bells, the switch flashing and warning bells only happen only when the top is fully is fully closed.
Mark
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:39 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
Hi Klaus,
I have removed the interior lining of the bow cover to get access to rear bow lock.
The bow lock micro switch seems to be in the open position (photo 1)when the bow cover is open and closed is this correct? is it possible to bend the contact arm or is the micro switch is faulty and needs replacing.
Mark,

when the rear bow lock is closed, then the switch will be pushed down as shown in photo 1. When the rear bow lock is closed , then it should look like photo 3. It is okay if the metal lever is touching the switch in that position, but the switch should not be pushed down far enough to click. Indeed, you can carefully bend the metal lever to simulate the position in photo 3 (or just a little higher when in doubt). Make sure to do the bending with the lock in closed position. The switches themselves rarely ever fail.

If that's not it, then I would next follow the wires from the rear bow lock towards the controller and look for damage.

Klaus

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Old 01-18-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Greenman View Post
Also when the top is fully retracted I do not get the red switch flashing and the warning bells, the switch flashing and warning bells only happen only when the top is fully is fully closed. Mark
Mark,

When the vehicle is operated, the main switch flashes, when the top is not properly locked.

The roof locked condition involves a number of switches, which all need to be properly activated.

The specific switches involved are all identified in the 'switch condition matrix' in post #16.

An improper switch condition could be due to a faulty switch, it being out of alignment, or a wiring issue (e.g. the switch condition not being received by the controller).

Knock on wood, in 13 years, the only time my roof would not operate, was due to the luggage partition position switch being out of alignment (e.g. even through the partition was up, in the required position, the roller on the switch arm was out the the guide channel and was not being activated).
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:15 PM
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1999 CLK320 (W208) Soft Top Question?

I have searched the MBWorld.org forums, and while I have found many issues/responses that are close to mine, but none is exact to mine!

The Soft Top, Side Windows, Rear Roll Bar/Headrests, Trunk all work fine when the top is put in the lowered (stowed away/trunk) position.

However, when I try to put the back top up, everything works, EXCEPT the Power Soft Top Switch on console stays illuminated while parked (or I think flashes when driving) which indicates some part of the top assembly is not fully locked (or thinks it’s not fully locked, because of one of the micro switches). I do hear the rear latchs lock, the rear window is in proper position, and the rear hatch completely closes, etc.

BTW, this all started the other day when my wife was driving and all of a sudden all the windows started to automatically roll down (when the top was up and fully latched). I have never been able to get the light off or stop blinking ever sense (but again, all works fine, except the light)!

Any advice would be much appreciated!
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mjrhoads View Post
I have searched the MBWorld.org forums, and while I have found many issues/responses that are close to mine, but none is exact to mine!

The Soft Top, Side Windows, Rear Roll Bar/Headrests, Trunk all work fine when the top is put in the lowered (stowed away/trunk) position.

However, when I try to put the back top up, everything works, EXCEPT the Power Soft Top Switch on console stays illuminated while parked (or I think flashes when driving) which indicates some part of the top assembly is not fully locked (or thinks it’s not fully locked, because of one of the micro switches). I do hear the rear latchs lock, the rear window is in proper position, and the rear hatch completely closes, etc.

BTW, this all started the other day when my wife was driving and all of a sudden all the windows started to automatically roll down (when the top was up and fully latched). I have never been able to get the light off or stop blinking ever sense (but again, all works fine, except the light)!

Any advice would be much appreciated!
Check to make sure the switch in the header panel hasn't come loose. IIRC it's triggered by the drivers side hook that locks the front of the roof down.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyjo9 View Post
Check to make sure the switch in the header panel hasn't come loose. IIRC it's triggered by the drivers side hook that locks the front of the roof down.
Any instructions/pics how to get to that, and check it?? I couldn't find any on this site..
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mjrhoads View Post
Any instructions/pics how to get to that, and check it?? I couldn't find any on this site..
The information you're looking for is right here within this thread.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Serndipity View Post
The information you're looking for is right here within this thread.
I agree for the rear sensors (very complete info). However, I was asking for a diagram that shows how to access the front manual latch/sensor?!

That I can not find (other then the post in this thread about shorting the two sensor wires togtether)....

Last edited by mjrhoads; 02-27-2014 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:57 PM
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Sometimes the screws for the soft top closed and locked switch loosen and there is no activation due to misalignment. I recall someone writing up detailed DIY instructions on how to access the switch, but can't readily find them.

The WIS instructions for removing and installing S84/11, the soft top closed and locked switch, are in the 2nd attachment in post #29 at http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...lete-up-3.html

Also see the 3rd attachment in post #6 at http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...mplete-up.html

Last edited by Serndipity; 02-27-2014 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:19 PM
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Troubleshooting progress/status...

Now that you mention that, does seem as though the front manual lock/unlock handle mechanism is a little "sloppy/loose". When you say, “Sometimes the screws for the soft top closed and locked switch loosen and there is no activation due to misalignment”, are you referring to the assembly inside the soft top, or inside the windshield frame?

Regardless, I still can't seem to figure out how to get to either! The pdf’s helped, but nothing like Klaus’s W208 “Case Cover Lock/Rear Bow Lock Replacement” document. Any other assistance for step by step instructions (ideally with photos) would be much appreciated!

But, since the “most likely candidate” concensus on this forum to get rid of the blinking red soft top indicator was either the “Rear Bow Lock” or the above, and because I had Klaus’s excellent write, I was able to get to the rear bow lock assembly pretty easily. Turns out the microswitch appeared to be adjusted properly. I re-adjusted just to make sure (per the procedure), and still no luck (still get the blinking light).

However, I did notice that there was a slight hydralic oil leak at the Rear Bow Lock assembly! So now I need to fix that, since it’s easily accessable. Question regarding the leak: is there anything that can be tightened (fittings, etc.) or a replaced (o-ring, etc.)? Or basically I buy a new assembly (part # 1247700426, correct?)?

Thanks everyone for the continued support!
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Old 03-01-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mjrhoads View Post
However, I did notice that there was a slight hydralic oil leak at the Rear Bow Lock assembly! So now I need to fix that, since it’s easily accessable. Question regarding the leak: is there anything that can be tightened (fittings, etc.) or a replaced (o-ring, etc.)? Or basically I buy a new assembly (part # 1247700426, correct?)?
mjrhoads, I will answer the questions regarding the leak below - Serndipity is doing an awesome job of covering the electrical details. The forum is very lucky to have him!

The leak you are seeing on the rear bow lock 1247700426 is almost certainly coming from the cylinder 1298001672, which is part of the lock assembly. Good thing you noticed this before it turned into a big mess! You now have the options of spending a ridiculous amount of money on a brand new lock assembly, or you can send your cylinder (attached to the lock or just by itself) to Top Hydraulics for rebuild/upgrade, or you can order a rebuilt cylinder (or a cylinder with the lock attached) via core exchange (also known as "up-front shipping") from Top Hydraulics and return your original parts afterwards for a refund of your deposit. See http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/23-w208-clk. The vast majority of our CLK customers use the core exchange option, and they take care of at least the rear bow lock 1247700426 and the case cover lock (1247500684 or 2087500984) at the same time.

There is nothing that you can tighten to stop the leak - the cylinder must be rebuilt. Rebuilding the cylinder is not just a matter of replacing o-rings. Please don't attempt to fix it yourself. These cylinders have four different types of seals inside, out of which only one is an o-ring. Coincidentally, the original o-ring is the one seal inside these cylinders that practically never fails. Just for completeness, here are the seal types inside the 1298001672, and Top Hydraulics replaces and upgrades each one of them:

1) Rod seals. They are cup-shaped and seal the piston rod from the rest of the cylinder. When they fail, you will see fluid coming out next to the chromed shaft (rod). These are usually the first seals to fail in the cylinders. Top Hydraulics' cup seals are made of a chemically much more stable material, and their geometry is optimized for maximum service life.

2) Piston seals. They seal the input and output sections from each other, as the piston slides through the cylinder. The piston seals have been made of different materials and sizes even in the same p/n cylinders throughout the years. Failing piston seals will cause internal leaks, which result in a pressure drop in your hydraulic system. Early model years have the added problem that the piston seals swell up and make it very hard to move the piston inside the cylinder. Crumbling piston seals can block valves or pinholes inside the hydraulic system, and it can be difficult to diagnose a piston seal failure without testing several cylinders once you find that your top is moving slowly or not at all.

3) Cap seals (aka gland seals). These are just o-rings that seal the top cap of the cylinder from the housing. They are usually the last seals to fail, but these o-rings are penny items.

4) Port seals. They seal the hydraulic lines where they are pushed into the cylinders. Port seal failure is becoming more and more common as the W208s age. Port seals have a special shape that makes them seal under pressure. O-rings wouldn't do the trick. They are secured by precisely machined brass rings (accuracy about 1/100 mm). DIY removal of the brass rings will almost certainly destroy the brass rings. Top Hydraulics installs port seals that are tighter than the originals, just in case the hydraulic line fittings have been scratched.



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Old 03-01-2014, 04:23 PM
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While it could be either the handle or switch, I remember reading a post, where someone explained how they gained access to check their S84/11 switch and found it out of alignment.

It seemed fairly strait forward and not too much work. I tried to find again, but have been unsuccessful. If not here, maybe in the benzworld.org forum.

The information in the WIS .pdf is more about access to the switch's wiring connector in the A pillar.

If you have a multimeter, you can check to see if the switch is electrically functional (e.g. ohms reading will verify it makes and breaks the circuit). Likewise, using the wiring diagrams in the thread, you can also to this test at the controller's connector. At this point, you also verify the wiring through the chassis is OK too. If the windshield bow switch test OK, you won't have figure out how to physically access it.

In this recent post http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...ill-again.html there appeared to be 2 issues. The first was the controller connector may have had some dirty/oxidized pins (e.g. not actually sensing all the required information) and then a jammed hydraulic cylinder switch.

Although I've yet to have any problems with my power roof, it's a very complex system, which is why I have been following these threads for years now (e.g. it's more a question of not 'if', but 'when' it fails) and Top Hydraulics consistently has received very high grades for rebuilding leaking cylinders, pump motors etc..

Last edited by Serndipity; 03-01-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Serndipity View Post
While it could be either the handle or switch, I remember reading a post, where someone explained how they gained access to check their S84/11 switch and found it out of alignment.

It seemed fairly strait forward and not too much work. I tried to find again, but have been unsuccessful. If not here, maybe in the benzworld.org forum.

The information in the WIS .pdf is more about access to the switch's wiring connector in the A pillar.

If you have a multimeter, you can check to see if the switch is electrically functional (e.g. ohms reading will verify it makes and breaks the circuit). Likewise, using the wiring diagrams in the thread, you can also to this test at the controller's connector. At this point, you also verify the wiring through the chassis is OK too. If the windshield bow switch test OK, you won't have figure out how to physically access it.

In this recent post http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...ill-again.html there appeared to be 2 issues. The first was the controller connector may have had some dirty/oxidized pins (e.g. not actually sensing all the required information) and then a jammed hydraulic cylinder switch.

Although I've yet to have any problems with my power roof, it's a very complex system, which is why I have been following these threads for years now (e.g. it's more a question of not 'if', but 'when' it fails) and Top Hydraulics consistently has received very high grades for rebuilding leaking cylinders, pump motors etc..
Well I found the issue! When the top is up and fully locked, if I simply put upward pressure on the inside manual lock handle, kazaam, the light goes off!!!

Soooo, I still need to find out how to properly access that handle in the soft top (without un-necessarily breaking, scratching, tearing precious material)?!?

Last edited by mjrhoads; 03-02-2014 at 05:31 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:05 PM
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Klaus,

I recently inspected both the Case Cover Lock Assembly (it is functional and not leaking), and the Hydraulic Fluid Reservoir (fluid was clear, and between the two lines), so I think I’ll just replace/exchange the Rear Bow Lock Assembly (the leak must have started very recently).

I will call you on 3/3/2014 to order.

Thank you for your help.

mjrhoads
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mjrhoads View Post
Well I found the issue! When the top is up and fully locked, if I simply put upward pressure on the inside manual lock handle, kazaam, the light goes off!!!

Soooo, I still need to find out how to properly access that handle in the soft top (without un-necessarily breaking, scratching, tearing precious material)?!?
Using the forum Search function was my friend.

I found the DIY instructions, for accessing the S84/11 'top closed and locked' switch, that were previously posted.

See post #6 at https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...hemselves.html

Also see post #7 at http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...fixed-1-a.html if you need more information on the locking handle.

Last edited by Serndipity; 03-03-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:39 AM
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This is a great thread, so far I haven't been able to solve my issue which is similar to what is going on here. Top works fine, however it never acknowledges its closed and latched. After shutting the car down and trying the top again with the engine off it sounds like the conv top motor will continue to try and shut the top with the red button held down and the top already closed. If I do not remove the key and cycle the top down and up it just stops at the latch point and the button will just flash red... of course the trunk doesn't open with the remote, but the windows will up/down along with the headrests when applicable.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:58 AM
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Can anyone tell me if the two wires coming off the rear bow lock go directly to the soft top computer next to the pump?
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Old 03-11-2014, 01:06 AM
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All cabriolet top micro switch wires go to the control module

Yes, they do.

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