MouTine

Anyone ever tryed HID/xenon kit in front fog lights? Did it triger "burned-bulb-notification" in OBC?

Scott Simoncic

Been thinking about this, people have done it. You need to buy a CANBUS kit, they are available on E-Bay and other sites, they are a bit more expensive, but they eliminate the error message.... You can buy a normal kit, and add Error Code Cancellation units, but that's just another point of failure.

City Rat

Got a link or pic of the canbus kit. Familiar with one for steering wheel interface but not for this. Thanks.

beefstallionAMG

I would not recommend HID's in your factory fog light housings. There are no cut offs and will have hot spots. It's your car though.

Scott Simoncic

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPT7-Premium-AC-CANBUS-HID-KIT-H1-5000K-BRIGHT-White-Xenon-Light-Conversion-/141005377193?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20d4934ea9&vxp=mtr

MouTine

I agree with this. My idea is to order set of brand new foglights and retrofit bi-xenon projectors inside. Since my car is genuine AMG, foglights are easy to mod to suitable this. Actualy I got one test piece and opened with heat gun. I just don't want to spend big money and then get bulb-message.

MouTine

Does anyone tested any type of ballasts in foglights in W208? Or has actual info of what kind of bulb monitoring there is? I higly doubt that it is modern can-bus type pulse. I think it is plain simple drawn current measurement.

Scott Simoncic

The Fogs are pointed quite downward on our cars, they actually have quite a distinct pattern, I know the penchant towards being anti-HID in "anything but approved housings" and I agree in some instances, 2005+ Chevrolet Truck Fog Lamps for Instance... But here ya go... 3000K

MouTine

ANd did you get any error messages? And you used those ballasts you linked?

Scott Simoncic

No, error messages drive me insane, I would literally pull over on the side of the road and remove them if I got an error message.

MouTine

Good. Same here. All the light mods I have done are like OEM install so I can not stand any errors. Need to do some testing...

Scott Simoncic

I'd like to see what you come up with on the retrofit.... Keep us up to date.

MouTine

At this point...
Bi-xenon projectors in original headlight housings.
US-spec sidemarkers in front with Euro-spec Parktronic.
Dual filament bulbs & holders in rear fog housings.

beefstallionAMG

It's good to hear you're doing it properly. I'd like to see your finished product!

Scott Simoncic

For the record, there is no way to do HID fog lamps "Properly".. The increase in brightness increases glare off of the fog back to the driver.... So let's not kid ourselves, this mod is entirely superficial. The point of fog lamps is to have a low, wide spread of light to illuminate closely to the ground directly in front of the vehicle to keep you on the road. Proper use of fog lamps, is actually (in most countries besides the US, because we don't have real fog) is to drive with just the parking and fog lamps on in heavy fog, so the low beams don't cause glare and fatigue to the eyes of the driver, yet the fog lamps illuminate enough road directly in front of you so you can make sure you don't depart from your lane.... Rear fog lamps are for no other purpose than, in this same instance, to alert drivers behind you of your presence since you should be traveling slowly in this scenario.

Williams707

I love my 6000K HID Projector Fogs

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...od-update.html

Scott Simoncic

They look fantastic! Again though, the reason you don't see ANY manufacture use HID's for the fog lamps is because of the color temperature vs. light reflectivity from fog. In fact, the further you look into areas with fog you will see they come standard with 3000K fogs, and even 3000k regular beams (France) due to this. I have 4300K, 6000K, and 8000K D2S/D2R/D2C replacement bulbs, and have swapped, and easy way to see what you will get so far as glare back and driver eye fatigue, is by swapping and looking at road signs that have reflective material on them... Manufactures strictly stick to 4300-4500K due to the maximized output vs glare. I'm just being honest about it, I run 8000K mainly because I'm fond of the color and it matches my LED City lights, but they aren't as good as the factory 4300K. You want 3000K-4300K MAX if you are looking for the Proper way to do fog lamps.... I'm just staying when people start getting all "Proper" about housings and cutoffs, you have to be honest about the color temperature and the fact that HID's aren't meant for fog lamps regardless of the housing. I run HID fogs.. I do it for looks, I run 8000K Low beams, I do it for looks.

Williams707

Thanks

I think there may be some confusion on the purpose versus the definition i.e. Fog Lights vs Driving/Running lights. My setup is for driving, also from the research that I've done the reason manufactures go with 4300K is because at that Kelvin or Color Temperature it is supposed to be the best for Luminance / output where I've never heard of any reference to the reason having to do with glare or eye fatigue. Personally in my experience, I think my 6000K HID has better Luminance than the HID 4300K. In Japan I've never driven in fog weather conditions so I'm not sure what those effects might have been. I just wanted to share my experience with H.I.D Fogs/Driving Lights that I've been playing around with a couple of configurations for the past 5 years and would have to say that the projectors work best.

Scott Simoncic

The confusion may have came from this statement you posted.... Dude, I'm not attacking you're color choice, or the fact you run HID's in your fogs, or Driving Lights rather. I run HID fogs... I run a higher Kelvin in my low beams, but here's the proof from people who have some experience in the business of lighting that talk about eye fatigue, it's due to the increased reflection from road signs, etc... I know you think 6000K is better, and if that's the case for you, great... But there are tons of studies showing that 4300-4500K is the safe, LEGAL, choice.. That's why you don't see Philips pumping out 6000-20000K HID bulbs. Run what you wish dude. To each his own, but going off of facts, 4300K is the standard for many reasons, and not put in FOG LAMPS, Driving Lights sure, but fog's actually are worse for the world when made HID.

http://www.piaa.co.jp/english/conten...IAA_Europe.pdf

Williams707

Bro, you need to chill and slow your roll. I never assumed you were attacking me....smh I just wanted to clarify that there is a difference between application of Fog Lights and Driving Lights where your post suggested you were more talking about Fog Lights as the application. My setup is for Driving Lights not Fog Lights. My assumption that you were talking more of Fog Light application is because you cross-referenced it with the rear tail fog lights.

I'm putting out information based on my experience of what I've been through over the past 7 years of changes to my ride where there are few that have customized their CLKs to the extent that I have. I always do thorough research and definitely don't rely on one source of information. I remember when research suggested that 20" rims wouldn't fit on our rides...smh

Anyways I've had 4300K as OE and in my experience I see allot better when I switched out to 5000K and even better with 6000K where highways in Japan for the most part have no street lights where when I say see better I'm talking about the road and road signs. It's also possible that road signs use different material and reflective material across the different countries which may also have a considerable impact. You also have to remember that you will see slight to significant differences in (K)elvin/Color Temperature across the different manufactures, that's because the standard is not enforced.

I've ran PIA in the beginning, was more impressed with aftermarket Chinese products. Now that I've moved back to the US after 23 years in Japan, once I get my car imported I will see how my 6000K applies i.e. from road signs to the road itself. I'm out here in the desert with pitch black roads so it will be interesting to see.

The information I put out here is "Big Picture", not addressed specifically to you but for everyone. Funny you mentioned the word safe though, kind of defeats the purpose of customizing or making any changed to the vehicle for that matter...lol Also funny you mentioned Legal as if 4300K is the only thing legal....smh

Last thing that I found interesting from your PDF Catalogue you posted is

1. It's from PIA Japan Website
2. For a 2009 European Catalogue.

BUT WAIT There's More - According to my research

PIAA sells a 6600K HID which they state is "Highest Rated kelvin on the Market"

I do my research...

Scott Simoncic

To be fair, you're right.... It's 4100K-5000K that's legal, but mainly because of "Light Shift" over the duration of the bulb's life, it tends to shift in color over time, whereas the tendency of putting a 5000K bulb in, would shift higher, are you going to get pulled over? No... Does it affect your vision adversely? Yes... I've been modding cars for a long time as well, and if you REALLY want to get technical and dispel disinformation, simply put, you can't modify your lighting system whatsoever in some states, like CA. I know this because I've spent some time in court arguing tickets, needless to say, the traffic court judge schooled me a bit, seems as though they know a little more than me, and, forgive me but I forget the statute, but you cannot modify your lighting system from stock in any way. Again, are you going to get pulled over? Probably not, but I did once. So the point is, facts..

I know facts are boring.... Sorry, My point is not to get personal here. I've very clearly stated that I run Illegal equipment, and I don't recommend it, but that we are purely talking about aesthetics at this point, and not increased light efficiency, optics, light reflection, etc.

If you dig deeper you will also find that the higher up the Kelvin scale, the more light triggers dilation in the human eye, which then lets in much more ambient, reflective light and opens the eye to glare... This works through the Scotopic curve, higher Kelvin ratings correlate to higher frequencies on the Scotopic curve, the human eye reacts by dilating, therefore letting in more light giving the appearance of brighter light with the higher Kelvin rating... In the end though, larger dilation will let in more ambient, and reflective light causing eye fatigue. Here you can see:


It's also interesting you mention Chinese products, again, here's where it goes a bit wrong. To achieve higher Kelvin ratings without painting the bulb surface, certain elements must be present in the bulb, since they operate higher on the Scotopic Curve, they operate at a higher frequency, the UV rays caused by this need to be protected by a UV coating, which isn't present on the cheaper bulbs, which in tern can deteriorate the headlamp lens from the inside, as well as adversely affect the reflective coating on the lamp housing. I have a friend with a new Explorer, that, with Cheap HID's in it, had the reflective material start flaking off of the inside of the housing, but I digress....

Most of what I'm saying IS "Big Picture" for the majority here, from a technical standpoint, not from my mods and what I think looks cool on my car, in fact I've stated multiple times that what I'm running is not optimum for lighting performance, rather it's for personal aesthetics.

Nitty Gritty: FOG: What is it? Well, Merriam-Webster defines it as: vapor condensed to fine particles of water suspended in the lower atmosphere that differs from cloud only in being near the ground. I think we can all accept this as a decent definition. Water, is reflective, this is second grade stuff, but you can fill a cup right now with water, shine a flashlight directly on the top and get reflection. So, the fine particles in fog, are also reflective. Here comes the Scotopic Curve again to tie it all in.... When you introduce light to fog, a certain amount will reflect back, this is why fog lamps have a low, wide pattern. Standard Halogen Fog Lamps are below 4100K, give or take, the reason you don't see ANY OEM MANUFACTURE use HID's in fog lamps is because of the fatigue, based on reflectivity, based on the Scotopic scale, that the driver would be subject too. It doesn't have to do with money, as most auto manufactures spend tons more getting their stupid LED eyebrows to match their HID's perfectly. Mercedes, BMW, what have you could easily tack on $250 to the price of a 7-series, or Mercedes S-Class to have fogs that match the headlamps..... But they don't, and that's down to rules, based on driver safety of the "Big Picture" you referred to. Now, I know you swapped your fog lights for driving lights, but big picture is that the OP was talking about fog lights, specifically, the factory ones.

Again though, these are just the pesky facts, run what you want, what you think looks cool, whatever... It's all good.... Just don't go telling people that things are what they aren't. What you're running wouldn't pass a certified light inspection in CA, and probably not a safety inspection in any most other states, nor would mine... Does it look cool, sure... Is it optimum for the human eye.... Nope.

I'm sure you're going to respond with something containing emoticons and Txt/chatspeek, but this is where I bow out. I've provided ample facts to support the argument, and, myself, the DOT, and the Universities of whom provided the studies for the Scotopic Curve, and they may be wrong. Who knows, Camels were the cigarette your doctor smoked in the 50's.

Williams707

Your Facts are Wack Dude. Go ahead and use any excuse to bow out...

1. My 6000K H.I.Ds made in China are closer to being white than they are to being blue. Which is why I said the standards of Kelvin are not enforced.

2. You say going with a Chinese brand is a problem when mostly everything in America is made in China and many JDM products sold in the US are actually parts made in China. I've never had any problems with my Chinese H.I.Ds that I purchased in Japan flaking off. In my experience of what I've seen is the US goes with a cheaper/lower quality Chinese products versus the products that the Japanese chooses to buy and sell from China.

3. What's legal and illegal is State by State and Country by Country and as I said my setup was legal in Japan. Big picture is understanding that not everyone on this forum lives in the United States. With CA having the strictest regulations, there's allot of things that is illegal in CA than in other states...smh

4. Wonder what VIPclk320 (Ash) has to say about the statement "you can't modify the lighting system from stock in any way" seeing that he lives in CA and has modified everything on his ride.

5. I get what you are saying technically, I already know and have read those things in the past. What I'm saying is having to strain your eyes to see on the roads that I've driven using 4100K-5000K versus seeing allot better with 6000K which maybe due to Japan using different materials and colors for their road signs i.e. Japan uses Blue & White versus Green & White. So you have to take that into consideration when you talk about frequencies. Also Dr Who, is the frequency affect the same on color blind people? What about eye sight?

6. I haven't been modifying cars for a long time. I've only been modifying my CLK for the past 7 years. My car is pretty much done. There is only 4 things left that could possibly be done to my car which would be SC, LSD, CF Driveshaft, Stereo, and/or go wide with a 9.5/11j setup.

7. Fog Lights and Driving Lights are different applications. Not talking about Headlights. My application on my projector H.I.D.s is used as Driving Lights, not Fog Lights as you will see the difference below. I wanted to make sure everyone is clear on the distinction as you correlated the rear fogs to the front fogs. As long as you get my point then I've effectively communicated be it with the use of emoticons, articulation, chat lingo, or what ever!!!

Scott Simoncic

Well unless Ash (VIPclk320) has the power to sign executive orders to change the lighting rules in CA, this is what I'm talking about:
V C Section 26101 Modification of Vehicle Equipment

Modification of Vehicle Equipment

26101. (a) A person shall not sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104.
(b) A person shall not use upon a vehicle, and a person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway that has installed a device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of a lighting, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device complies with Section 26104.
(c) This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles.

Amended Sec. 45, Ch. 491, Stats. 2010. Effective January 1, 2011.

Per: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26101.htm I guess thier facts are Wack too, ya?

Oh, ya, here's a little something on cheap Chinese HID kits:

http://www.cbp.gov/archived/xp/cgov/...011_2.xml.html

But, US Customs must be Wack and just flexing their muscles too I guess...

Williams707

Seems the issue per the website is the HID equipment failed to meet DOT requirements because it was not marked with the light source type, the light source manufacturer's name or trademark where the HID conversion kits have been installed into headlamps that were not designed to use them. That's the issue.

Good info though so I checked my Chinese H.I.Ds and mine meet DOT requirements. Just goes to show as I mentioned before that people have been importing cheaper Chinese Products. Believe it or not but in China they do have low quality and high quality products.

If my research is correct, your job is IT?

Scott Simoncic

Oh absolutely, China makes great products, Probably a good 70% of my home is made up of Chinese products, sadly, then I go off and drive German and Japanese cars, and I have a dog that is of Siberian bloodlines.... What can I say, the way of the world I guess. China absolutely does make great products, they make some not so great products too, like any country really. I'm not a 'Merica kind of guy, although my firearms are all American, and I feel the quality is decent there. I guess the part that bugs me about China is the fact that they don't follow Fair Trade rules whatsoever, and their labor tactics are disgusting, just as human beings in general, but that's the leaders not the proletariat... Also their attitude towards hazardous and contaminated waste is just short of genocidal towards their people... But that's more of a social issue. I'm not a tree hugger or anything, it's just that I used to be in Haz and Non-Haz contaminated Remediation, what we do to this world.....

Anyhow, Yes, I do work in IT, just bumped up actually to project management, so I may be moving to the W209 AMG, if I can ever find a one-owner with service records.

I'm going to go ahead and PM you so we can hopefully put this banter to bed, fun as a little back and forth may be.

Be well.