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E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Head Gasket leak will sludge an engine too. A $15 used oil analysis would catch the coolant in the oil, and the extra oil changes would avert any sludge until the leak is discovered or fixed.
but...i'm just toooo busy.
Mercedes are so good, they don't need oil, right????
In which it shows how the oil service reset is applicable to either MB 229.5 spec or "Standard Oil".
Isn't this exactly what I was saying, that even 10 year old dino oil is acceptable at a reduced interval?
What I'd use is far away from "Standard Oil", maybe at cheapest a 5q jug of 10w-40 HiMiles oil like PZ $16 and a half jug of a good synth, like Pennzoil Platinum for $11. I don't see why it wouldn't equal a 229.5 oil anyway. Someone could tweek that into 2 gallons of Rotella Synth 5w-40 for $44 or the awesome 10w-30 Rotella semi for like $32....exactly half of full priced M1.
Different guys justify their purchase decisions different ways. If I could do 2 changes of my oil for the same or less than spec oil (which produces a mediocre result) that's what I would do.
I understand about the sand. I recommend against messing with the air filter too much, it dumps dirt into the engine when it's changed. Maybe try some pantyhose over the filters to keep them clean. Maybe remove the pantyhose after 10k miles and run another 10k without them.
Huh? Why would changing air filters dump dirt into the engine? You'd have to really try hard to purposefully do that given the design of the air filter housing on MBZ vehicles. have you actually ever change the air filters on these cars? And I would certainly NOT put pantyhose or anything else over the filter. If it's on the intake side, it could break away and get sucked into the engine doing damage. A good filter is all yo need, and if the air is really dirty, change it more often.
If you do 6 months, just leave the old oil filter in for another 6 months, 5000 miles.
Why not go ahead and change the filter? If you're trying to save money, then use the extended range oil and change according to schedule. If the objective is maximum engine protection, then spend the extra $12 and change the filter with the oil. Also, I do not agree with the "dusty climate" reasoning for shorter oil change intervals. Air filters, yes, but dust in the air should not be entering the crankcase. If it does, there is another problem to be solved.
Audi Junkie, honest request here, please can you post your top 5 recommend 0w-40 or 5w-40 oils for us. Obviously for mercedes engines approximately made from year 2002 and newer, regular driving, commuting, hitting the gas occasionally etc. Nothing unusual, just your pick from the regular common well known brands that most people can find anywhere. Just so it is noted amongst all of these posts.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Most new Euro oils are actually 5w-30, but obviously I don't have experience with them.
Shell Rotella 5w-40 is a tough act to beat. Only the other major company's products compete, like Chevron Delo or Mobil Delvac-1. Those are called HDEO Heavy Duty Engine Oil, and have modern diesel and gas specs.
In PCMO, Passenger Car Motor Oil, as people know, 5w-40 and 0w-40 and kind of rare. Let me go over what I can and characterize it. Of course Mobil 1 0w-40 is a great oil....but in a few conditions, it shows weakness. It tends to burn off in engines which consume oil. Not the fault of the oil, but best to switch to a 5w-40 in this instance. 0w-40 is great for servicing turbos, with it's improved cold flow....turbos need that to lube the bearings. Also Mobil 1 does poorly when exposed to a fuel dilution condition.
People get confused between flow and pressure. You can have high flow, with low pressure and vice-versa....but the gauge can only measure pressure so that's how people think. Ok, well your manly 20w-50 is showing high pressure....but flow can be almost nothing. Which cools bearing, pressure or flow? I diverge, but thinner oils have merit. Guys could run plain 5w-30 synth all day and get a good result. In fact 0w-40 and 5w-30 are pretty similar.
So, in PCMOs we have the Castrol Edge Titanium 0w-40 available in jugs, that's state of the art.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
When I talk about Euro 5w-30, I mean they are on the thicker end of the 30 range 12cSt, while the 5w-30 we are accustomed to is an ISLAC/API formula, at 10cSt. Not a huge difference, but there is a difference.
It's easy to recommend Euro 5w-30 because it's just as thick as a 0w-40 after it has sheered down from 14cSt. Valvoline Maxlife Synth used to be a Euro 30 with ACEA A3 spec. BMW Castrol 5w-30 is an AWESOME oil, and certainly thick enough. As you scroll through oil co pages, you'll see their Euro 30 pages, we just don't stock them in USA. This is a dead-end topic for now, just for when people see the Euro 30, they know it's different than the USA 30. Same measuring system, but the visc is a range, just like with thick 40 and thin 40. The PZ Hi Miles and Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 are both 16cSt, but Mobil 1 0w-40 starts under 14 and finishes under 12, a 30 weight.
To wrap this up, I'm high recommending the Mobil 1 High Miles line. The 30 weights are thick, essentially Euro 30s, with the 10w-30 being quite stout. In performance engines, go for the overkill 10w-40, AMG or cars driven hard enough to heat up the oil, which is rare in North America.
Myself, I'm going to keep using my PZ High Miles 10w-40 jug of 5q and I'm going to mix it with.....20 weight! That'll bring the visc down near 14 verses the 12 I usually run in my other cars. I'm guessing the 14 is good in these engines anyway....not thick enough to bog down the engine. I'm not driving it over winter either, so no cold start issues.
If I missed or skipped anything let me know. I didn't cover the various "Boutique" oils from Europe that are imported. Not to sound harsh, but they are for fanbois. Motul, Fuchs, Total, Ravenol, Agip....the list goes on. They rely on foreign sources for their base oil, Korea or USA and they rely on our additive suppliers too, like Lubrizol, Ethyl Infineum.... like I said all you need to do to get in the spec oil business is to order up some pre-approved additive pack with the specs you want, blend in the appropriate base oil, bottle it and put a label on....boom, Junky Oil.....with specs. That's basically what you get with boutique spec oils, not some highly researched unique proprietary formula. Other boutiques, AMSoil and Redline are excellent, the last "homebrew" oils with top rate base oils like PAO. They are simply not needed in a Mercedes engine, not ours.
So, just get the Mobil 1 5w-40 HIGH MILES and be happy. Mix it up with some 10w-40 if you like. Run it the same interval as you would spec oil. Know this, it's a better oil for less money....the engine seals with thank you too.
As 0w-40 tend to be cutting edge, Pennzoil Platinum Ultra Viper Spec is just about the best product you can lay your hands on. I stocked up when Amazon was out of stock....cheaper that way. Same for M1 0w-40 at $26 6 pack, that's why I have a stash of that too....but the PZ is for the wife's brand new VW Tiguan 2.0 turbo, we want to keep it super clean like in the pictures....(above)
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 07-01-2017 at 01:42 PM.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
There are two additive packs to consider, the "classic" add pack that Shell / PZ uses...overbase Calcium Zink and Mg and lots of Moly. PZ, Shell, Quaker State use this. I like it because I mix grades of oil without worrying about the add pack.
Mobil Clean, Valvoline and Castrol GTX use a "sodium" additive pack. I've witnessed it quiet lifters big time....that was MaxLife. Mix Maxlife 10w-40 and 5w-30 to get a thicker "Euro" product, lol. Same for Mobil Clean, it comes in 10w-40 HiMiles....which is the best starting point for choosing a "custom" oil.
We have Conoco's titanium additive now, in Kendall and Castrol oils. Kendall is a nice product. PSC is a local Kendall supplier with an online storefront. I use their ATF.
All oil companies "ok" mixing and part of API spec is a compatibility test.
Opie Oils is a good place to become more familiar with the Euro oils and specs....nice storefront, idk if they ship to USA. I'll pick out a few cool oils later.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
I think we can still get German made Syntec 0w-30 at AutoZone and PepBoys. It's the only 30 to get Porsche specs and has all the other Euros....in a 30.
The Castrol 5w-40 is a big skip....nothing special, just an old diesel formula with high Mg from Belgium. This is what most Euro branded boutique oils will be like,.,,,nothing special...just specs.
I could name some specs to look for, but I'll think about it first.
So, from that document, "A high quality oil can reduce the wear slightly, but when dirt enters the engine, there is always wear. Here are more examples of wear caused by dirt passing through the air filter." in that case, changing the oil more often would not seem to help.
I bet you think a new filter works better than an old one. How about Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy???
So, I guess you are saying not to change the filers, air or oil???
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
This is what the quote says:
"A high quality oil can reduce the wear slightly, but when dirt enters the engine, there is always wear. Here are more examples of wear caused by dirt passing through the air filter."
I can't comment on the rest of the "quote" because it's taken out of context or doesn't exist. I can say, if dirt is entering the engine, changing oil will help reduce wear, but only if the filtration issue is fixed, and the dirt no longer continues to enter. It's effects are cumulative and does indeed build up silicon in the oil.
It goes on to give more and more examples of profound engine wear from monkeying with the air filter. My first example was 100x normal wear from some ding-dong who thought they were "helping" the engine.
It's pretty simple, and Widman wraps up the study in a few words: "Even when it is done as cautiously as possible, cleaning the filter ends up costing the life of the engine."
In case you still don't get it, the physical act of changing the filter drops dust into the intake, then the new filter allows MORE dirt in because of it's porous nature. It's commonly known that filters become more efficient as they are in service. I knew you'd be surprised, even though it's a pretty simple concept, you wasted our time on a long explanation because you refuse to take my word.
He even goes into the filtration problems with K&N style filters:
In case you still don't get it, the physical act of changing the filter drops dust into the intake, then the new filter allows MORE dirt in because of it's porous nature.
Please explain that given the design of MBZ's filter housing. I do not see it unless you are totally careless and dump dirt from the outside of the filter into the housing and then fail to clean it. If you are going to tell me that there is already dirt on the inside of the housing, then my answer is "it was already there", and that's why you should clean the housing before reinstalling it. If you are claiming it's because "dust enter while the cover is remove", then I suggest not changing filters during a sandstorm.
It's commonly known that filters become more efficient as they are in service. I knew you'd be surprised, even though it's a pretty simple concept, you wasted our time on a long explanation because you refuse to take my word.
I gave no long explanation and I certainly understand that, to a point, a dirty filter is better at keeping out contaminates, but there is a trade-off. First, you don't want to choke your engine, and second, the small particulate that passes through degrades the filter's abilities over time through abrasion. This will allow larger particulate to pass. the heavier particulate trapped int he filter will cause it to be stressed due to increased vacuum which can tear it. There is no excuse not to replace a dirty filter.
The problem I have with your posts is that while you offer excellent information on oils, you condescend to people for choosing to using Mobil 1 and other approved oils. Like most forums, this on is full of very knowledgeable people willing to share their experience and wisdom, as well as some very inexperienced people looking for advice. I try to be careful in my recommendations and stay as close to manufacturer specs as possible because I don't want to be responsible for people ruining their cars. I would offer the same advice to you.
I understand about the sand. I recommend against messing with the air filter too much, it dumps dirt into the engine when it's changed. Maybe try some pantyhose over the filters to keep them clean. Maybe remove the pantyhose after 10k miles and run another 10k without them.
If you're changing oil every 3000-5000 miles, in your climate, just use a 15w-40 diesel engine oil....period. If you see a 10w-40 you like, ok too. Trust me these engines only need synth if you don't want to change it until 10k miles....or have cold starts FAR below freezing.
The oils you used that came out dirty, that's a good thing, it's cleaning out the engine.
15w-40....trust me.
Also, forget miles, do changes on a timed basis, either once or twice a year after 6 months. If you do 6 months, just leave the old oil filter in for another 6 months, 5000 miles.
Thanks for all the advice! Can you please check my other thread related to lifter noise and let me know if you have new advice? Thanks.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
I will check it out. I witnessed the MaxLife quiet lifters in a Volvo I sold to a friend. That engine was always ticky....finish an oil change with my friend, we were both like....whoa. This was just 5w-30, not even a thick oil to mask it.
No comment on the thread above though. I dunno what people are trying to gain by monkeying with or changing a filter more than is NECESSARY, when they know it will shoot some silicon into the engine. It shows up on UOAs, sometimes with extra wear.
This why guys I know change their air filters about 1000 miles before an oil change, to get the filter working properly than drop the oil with the abrasive silicon out. It's pretty simple stuff.
No comment on the thread above though. I dunno what people are trying to gain by monkeying with or changing a filter more than is NECESSARY, when they know it will shoot some silicon into the engine. It shows up on UOAs, sometimes with extra wear.
This why guys I know change their air filters about 1000 miles before an oil change, to get the filter working properly than drop the oil with the abrasive silicon out. It's pretty simple stuff.
I think you are getting very confused. My initial comment was with regards to not replacing the ENGINE OIL filter at every ENGINE OIL change. Then there was a this sidebar mention of the the need for more frequent ENGINE OIL changes due to dusty climates, which I disagree with.. I stated that keeping the AIR FILTER clean is all that is needed in those cases. You claim that the process of changing the filter "drops dust into the intake", which I disagree with. Now you are on some tangent about silicon. Are you talking about a K&N-style oiled AIR FILTER? I was not. It seems you just keep throwing in the straw man in these arguments.
Hi guys i did my oil change last few weeks or so. I noticed slow leaks coming from the bolt that plugs the oil pan. this is a clk350 btw. i am suspecting a worn washer or compromised pan, or maybe i didn't tighten enough.
I basically hand tightened it, and when i did it the washer seemed fine.
Do i need to change the washer every time? and is there a torque for oil pan bolts in these cars?
Hi guys i did my oil change last few weeks or so. I noticed slow leaks coming from the bolt that plugs the oil pan. this is a clk350 btw. i am suspecting a worn washer or compromised pan, or maybe i didn't tighten enough.
I basically hand tightened it, and when i did it the washer seemed fine.
Do i need to change the washer every time? and is there a torque for oil pan bolts in these cars?
I would definitely change the washer every time as it is a one-time use item. Proper torque is 30Nm.
Yes, just get a copper washer of the proper diameter. I think the last time I needed one, it was cheaper to buy a "generic" oil drain pan bolt with the washer and toss the bolt.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by Rudeney
I think you are getting very confused. My initial comment was with regards to not replacing the ENGINE OIL filter at every ENGINE OIL change. Then there was a this sidebar mention of the the need for more frequent ENGINE OIL changes due to dusty climates, which I disagree with.. I stated that keeping the AIR FILTER clean is all that is needed in those cases. You claim that the process of changing the filter "drops dust into the intake", which I disagree with. Now you are on some tangent about silicon. Are you talking about a K&N-style oiled AIR FILTER? I was not. It seems you just keep throwing in the straw man in these arguments.
Huh? Why would changing air filters dump dirt into the engine? You'd have to really try hard to purposefully do that given the design of the air filter housing on MBZ vehicles. have you actually ever change the air filters on these cars? And I would certainly NOT put pantyhose or anything else over the filter. If it's on the intake side, it could break away and get sucked into the engine doing damage. A good filter is all yo need, and if the air is really dirty, change it more often.
Why not go ahead and change the filter? If you're trying to save money, then use the extended range oil and change according to schedule. If the objective is maximum engine protection, then spend the extra $12 and change the filter with the oil. Also, I do not agree with the "dusty climate" reasoning for shorter oil change intervals. Air filters, yes, but dust in the air should not be entering the crankcase. If it does, there is another problem to be solved.
You would still know the subject is, and was; air filters.
Your slow learning shouldn't hold up the discussion any further. Don't bother to reply.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
Originally Posted by MrMiky
Hi guys i did my oil change last few weeks or so. I noticed slow leaks coming from the bolt that plugs the oil pan. this is a clk350 btw. i am suspecting a worn washer or compromised pan, or maybe i didn't tighten enough.
I basically hand tightened it, and when i did it the washer seemed fine.
Do i need to change the washer every time?
You could take the washer and re-anneal it by heating and quenching.
Audi_junkie, it seems you are here for no other purpose than to argue. You use the typical argument fallacies, like information inundation, personal attacks, and straw men. I come here to help people, not to argue. Have fun with your arguing! <Rodney out>.
06-29-2017, 09:27 PM
